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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashana Darkmoon View Post
    Not talking about clunkiness of rotations or fun or subjective things, talking about measurable performance. This is only through BFA, but it is pretty consistent: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...wiQ/edit#gid=0

    And this is just shadow - priest is a class, not a spec, and Disc is historically one of the strongest healing specs in the game for 10+ years running, with only a few mediocre tiers.

    But even just for shadow, can you think of a single hybrid dps spec that is consistently better? Balance is often good but also has a lot of bad spots; elemental is almost never better than shadow; Ret/Feral we don't even need to ask; Windwalker/Havoc are brought for the buff, but again aren't super consistent in raids; DPS warrior always gets a slot; DKS...totally depends. Who among those has it consistently better than shadow? Certainly not many, possibly not any!

    Shadow is also almost always better than 2/3 of the pure DPS class specs, and often better than all 3 for at least one or two pure dps classes per tier.

    Like I'm sorry, but there is no data to support shadow in specific or priests in general being a poorly treated class. It is one of the most consistently good classes in the game across all content for the entire history of the game.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yeah I don't necessarily most with any of this*. I think specific criticisms of the tree are perfectly valid and justified, especially around these issues.

    Just this is a separate point than this hilarious whining about being the redheaded stepchild of the developers which is obviously not true.

    *The last point I think is completely wrong. Double PI is insanely powerful and priests get it for free, along with MD and no AE mind soothe. Shadow is going to be in a better spot purely because of that.

    Healers I think will really depend on tuning. If holy does good damage with Empyreal blaze etc it will probably be fine, since damage is typically what matters for m+ healing.
    Boomkin/Warr/DK have historically been FAR above Shadow.

    Shadow is more of a mid tier hybrid, in the same tier as Enhc and Feral. All specs that have had a few periods of extreme dominance, and many more periods of being bad/middle of the pack.

    The only reason why Shadow is not down there with Ele and Ret, is that we were recently very strong for half of BFA.



    WotLK: Worst Dps in the game together with Ele because of no scaling. Bandaid solution for Haste scaling right before ICC lunched, making us mid tier for the last raid

    Cata: OP in t11, good in t12, average in t13

    MoP: Single worst Dps spec in the game for all but the two resets where they buffed our DoTs (which made us middle of the pack), then nerfed them again

    WoD: Great scaling, but preemptively nerfed before we could benefit from said advantage. Middle of the pack.

    Legion: OP in EN. Average in the rest.

    BFA: Bad in Uldir. OP in BoD and EP (because of fight design favouring Shadow, not because of tuning). Lower mid pack for Nyalotha

    SL: Only played Sepulcher, in which we were once again pretty average




    Boomkins/Warrs/DKs have all had at least one patch every expansion where they were extremely strong, if not FotM, which is not the case for Shadow. None of them have had any expansions where they were just average, and lets not even start about MoP, where Shadow was dogshit for a full expansion.
    Last edited by ThrashMetalFtw; 2022-10-11 at 01:53 PM.
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  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by ThrashMetalFtw View Post
    Boomkin/Warr/DK have historically been FAR above Shadow.

    Shadow is more of a mid tier hybrid, in the same tier as Enhc and Feral. All specs that have had a few periods of extreme dominance, and many more periods of being bad/middle of the pack.

    The only reason why Shadow is not down there with Ele and Ret, is that we were recently very strong for half of BFA.



    WotLK: Worst Dps in the game together with Ele because of no scaling. Bandaid solution for Haste scaling right before ICC lunched, making us mid tier for the last raid

    Cata: OP in t11, good in t12, average in t13

    MoP: Single worst Dps spec in the game for all but the two resets where they buffed our DoTs (which made us middle of the pack), then nerfed them again

    WoD: Great scaling, but preemptively nerfed before we could benefit from said advantage. Middle of the pack.

    Legion: OP in EN. Average in the rest.

    BFA: Bad in Uldir. OP in BoD and EP (because of fight design favouring Shadow, not because of tuning). Lower mid pack for Nyalotha

    SL: Only played Sepulcher, in which we were once again pretty average




    Boomkins/Warrs/DKs have all had at least one patch every expansion where they were extremely strong, if not FotM, which is not the case for Shadow. None of them have had any expansions where they were just average, and lets not even start about MoP, where Shadow was dogshit for a full expansion.
    Point is that in the modern game (Legion-BFA-SL) priests are in the top half of hybrid dps specs in the game, probably top third, in terms of reliably being good in raids.

    Kinda moot though since the spec just got giga nerfed lol. If they don't make more changes it's definitely going to suffer.

  3. #43
    Honestly, I have no idea how to play Shadow in DF. The spec tree is a gigantic mess and there is so much going on either route you follow, it's just way too much. The same for Balance Druid. While I like a lot of interactions, it's just become too overcomplicated.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  4. #44
    The Patient marathal's Avatar
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    I haven’t logged in for more than a few minutes every week or two. The thought of logging in tomorrow to what ever mess goes live is not something I am looking forward to. It will be whatever they feel is the way they want the class played based on feedback from those top players that desire it to be that way.

    This is the first time in 13 years of playing that I’m in no rush to buy the next expansion. For now I’ve got a bunch of content I never finished, and I’ll just wait and see if they continue with the “we feel shadow is in a good place” stock answer.

  5. #45
    It looks like the Flash Concentration style is going to be meta for Dragonflight at launch. I hate that playstyle so much and I hate even more we're going to play so similar to how we had to for most of Shadowlands. Flash Concentration is soooo boring to play and makes me not want to play Holy at all for this Xpac. I wish they hadn't just made that legendary power talent. It's kind of lazy to just recycle it. Do something different Blizz!
    You know the thing...

  6. #46
    Holy remains pretty boring, though Empryeal Blaze is kind of neat.

    Disc definitely plays better though, assuming they don't crater it with nerfs

  7. #47
    OOoooo, I'm from the future and I have some bad news.

  8. #48
    Disc: best healer by far in the game, gets more damage to compensate for marginal healing nerfs
    Priest mains, time to go ballistic.
    Wyrmrest Accord Alliance must make a comeback! Stop transferring to Moon Guard! Please!

  9. #49
    Maybe when they take disc's core mechanics away from it to give to a new class, like they did with demo locks

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