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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    DF has honestly been fun if you're a semi-casual wow player. Pugging 15+ keys isn't bad, raids are fairly fun. And there is no daily grind forcing you to play. It feels different than wow has in the past.

    As for that riot mmo, don't get your hopes up. I know some folks who work at riot, and they're taking a lot of inspiration from WoW more than any other MMO. And as it still sits, the only game Riot has made successfully is still LoL, which most folks who are a fan of that genre preferred HoN or Dota/Dota 2. so they aren't even the best game in their original format.

    But, I hope that it comes out well. I do find it odd you think DF is a cash grab, while playing New World, one of the biggest trash cash grab mmos in the last 10 years.
    Sure Jan... you know folks that work at Riot.

    Anyway that's good they take inspiration from WoW.

    Also, Valorant is a very successful Riot game, and they took CSGO and copy n paste, and then added things like abilities and better anti cheat and better servers 128 tick and simply made the game a lot better. So before we had only one competitive shooter in CSGO but now we have two with CSGO and Valorant.

    HoN is a troll game, i loved it but only because I can regularly 1 v 5 a team, fun sure, but not competitive. Dota 2 is closest to LoL, but as far as that genre goes, LoL is still king to this day. Most balanced and most competitive in the genre.

    New World is 30 bucks and no monthly Sub. How do you possibly think its a cash grab? Only thing in the in game store is skins for your character. Is your brain turned on? Or are you just running your mouth about something you clearly know nothing about.

    DF has major issues, one of those issues is: Nothing to do. Was some of the changes a step in the right direction? Yes. DF is not holding on to subs, I know way more people that play Wrath Classic then those who play DF. DF is a cash grab simply because they needed to sit on that game and put way more into it for another year or two of development, but no, they gave us UI mod, dragonflying and profession update with old talent tree changed into new talent tree with abilities and legion legendarys, a new race that can be 1 new shitty class, simply put: minimal fucking work to get something out there to keep that money train rolling.

    I would never compare New World to WoW, not even remotely close to the same game and never will be but Riots MMORPG will be king when it comes out, id bet everything i have on it, so screen shot this post and we can come back to it then.

  2. #62
    It is not easy for a Holy Priest no and competing with new class introduction like Mistweaver is a no go.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Are you talking from a PvE or PvP perspective? And as I mentioned in the post, a Shadow Priest is a utility DPS. There will not have the same damaging type abilities as a destro lock.

    The playstyles now in DF have now also allowed for so much option you degenerate analysis can easily be avoided by choosing whatever you like, for example:

    1. Instant Cast Build
    2. Pet Spec Build
    3. Dot Damage Build
    4. Void Torrent Build
    5. Void Form Build

    This is five playstyles that I have designed myself from the talent tree, in honesty I think it is too much variation and they should limit the playstyle slightly but again it gives great option as a priest to choose what you think is best. Or go with a number build but personalisation is always fun...or play a bot.

  3. #63
    Pandaren Monk Demsi's Avatar
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    Hey it could be worse, you could be paladins

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Goat7 View Post
    Sure Jan... you know folks that work at Riot.

    Anyway that's good they take inspiration from WoW.

    Also, Valorant is a very successful Riot game, and they took CSGO and copy n paste, and then added things like abilities and better anti cheat and better servers 128 tick and simply made the game a lot better. So before we had only one competitive shooter in CSGO but now we have two with CSGO and Valorant.

    HoN is a troll game, i loved it but only because I can regularly 1 v 5 a team, fun sure, but not competitive. Dota 2 is closest to LoL, but as far as that genre goes, LoL is still king to this day. Most balanced and most competitive in the genre.

    New World is 30 bucks and no monthly Sub. How do you possibly think its a cash grab? Only thing in the in game store is skins for your character. Is your brain turned on? Or are you just running your mouth about something you clearly know nothing about.

    DF has major issues, one of those issues is: Nothing to do. Was some of the changes a step in the right direction? Yes. DF is not holding on to subs, I know way more people that play Wrath Classic then those who play DF. DF is a cash grab simply because they needed to sit on that game and put way more into it for another year or two of development, but no, they gave us UI mod, dragonflying and profession update with old talent tree changed into new talent tree with abilities and legion legendarys, a new race that can be 1 new shitty class, simply put: minimal fucking work to get something out there to keep that money train rolling.

    I would never compare New World to WoW, not even remotely close to the same game and never will be but Riots MMORPG will be king when it comes out, id bet everything i have on it, so screen shot this post and we can come back to it then.

    Okay, I got the sense you might be a bit delusional at first, but now I get it. Not a chance in hell in the 2000+ rated games you ever 1v5'd folks in HoN. Not a chance.

    If you hate wow so much, anyone taking inspiration from them would lead one to belive you'd hate that product as well. But apparently, you think a copy of a piece of shit tastes better than the orignal piece of shit. Makes sense for someone of your mindset.

    No, Valorant isn't as popular or as successful as CSGO, not even remotely. LoL has had a fading fanbase for almost 10 years, while dota2 has been growing. Riot is a good company, who I hope does well, but if you think their MMO will ever break 15 million active subs, you're out of your mind. Which makes sense based on your on-going delusions.

  5. #65
    A lot of specs are doing poorly and it's exacerbated by others being god mode. This is the highest point of discrepancy in wow history between specs / classes. They don't seem to understand what is going on, not really. They nerf or buff things based on amount of ppl yelling it seems and that is about it. For example they nerfed all tanks across the board with -10% damage reduction even though one tank is unkillable and other are in different worse states. And now they're buffing 2 of the tanks because it's all some dice roll, they never seem to think what some change will do, they do it and then look at data after 1+ month, after nobody has fun anymore with their broken chosen class. And if a class is popular, despite how bad it is (like pala), they don't touch it. Look at notes and see the random changes they make...
    Last edited by Loveliest; 2023-01-07 at 11:03 PM.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by OokOok View Post
    I think it's both funny and weird shadow priests on MMoC feel they get "The worst treatment" from the WoW devs when NO OTHER class or spec in this entire game has got as much attention or revamps as shadow priest.
    Every expansion Shadow priest talents/abilities/playstyle gets redone and re worked. I can think of about 10 specs who wish Blizzard would give them as much attention and work that shadow priest clearly gets. I mean Blizz is clearly trying, they are just failing. But to say you get the "Worst treatment" is funny
    "you think you do but you dont"
    Honestly everytime they get "attention or revamped" they make t he spec more needlessly complex and underperforming. At this point im convinced they keep giving it attention because they have no idea what they want it to be or how they want it to function.

    Its even worse if you consider how annoying disc is to play, I have never met someone who loves atonement (especially since they changed it after MoP). It might be good (at times) but it hasnt been fun to play in 10 years and the cost/effort ratio is way off

    They just make Holy underperform on purpose so people will be inclined to put up with the annoyances of Disc

  7. #67
    Shadow is the opposite of "If it's not broke, don't fix it". It's never fully fixed and constantly being changed. At this point I'm not even sure what shadow is, it's almost like a word cloud of shadow and void related expressions.

    Disc is a constant struggle between the desire to give them shields and shields being OP in organized content. And trying to bolt on "do damage to heal" with no idea how it should work overall.

    And holy is being babied as "nub's first healer" so adding any mechanics that are more complex than cast spells to buff other spells is out of the question, it might confuse someone. But at least they are reluctant to remove any spells, so it has more keybinds than you can shake a stick at.

  8. #68
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    Every player that's stuck around for more than 1 expansion feels this way about their main class and it's a huge problem with the rollercoaster class design in the end they neglect so many specs while claiming to be an esport game.
    If you knew the candle was fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago.

  9. #69
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  10. #70
    Legendary! SinR's Avatar
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    No.

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  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Oneirophobia View Post
    This is kind of like saying Night Elves don't have the worst treatment because they've been heavily involved in the plot. It isn't exactly for the best.

    Also, the revamps are mostly cycling between 3 different play styles: shadow orbs/birbs, mind spike stuff, and various iterations of void form. This time around priest has all 3 of those previously existing styles but you have to mush 'em together and the rotation is off-the-charts nonsensical. It's like the caster version of feral.
    TBH I quite like this version of Shadow we got now. At least for M+. Quick AoE Dot application, AoE Mind blast and SW: D (it's fun to snipe low health enemies and inflict massive damage on everything). Turning Mind Sear into a spender was also a good move. Void Form feels unnecessary though and void bolt rotation is just awkward. And I don't know why the ability to cast Mind Blast procs while channeling was removed. Other than that I'm pretty happy. Shadow is not hard to play and I feel if I would main Shadow I could get bored since the skill cap seems lower than other specs. But it's a fun spec for me as a WL main, especially since Affliction is underperforming atm.



    The changes to Shadow Cov have helped a lot in M+ but there is a hesitancy to use it. I think a lot of people don't realize there are zero drawbacks to it now (it used to be a self-inflicted spell lock out of holy spells... lolz), it just strictly increases your healing and shadow damage (and therefore more healing via atonement) by 25% on a short cooldown and has a 5-person wide AoE burst heal with decent range. I don't heal enough to really say if it's groundbreaking for Disc or not but I personally have found it a really great button.
    What Disc really lacks is a panic heal to save groupmates from mistakes. PW:Life is quite good, but unreliable. Holy has 2-3 abilities to instantly save and often fully heal a groupmate (Angel, Epiphany, PW:Life), Disc has to use multiple abilities and has to set up for it. Which is great in predictable scenarios like boss fights but bad for M+ trash in not highly coordinated groups. Shadow Cov offers you higher heals, but you have to set it up and then additionally cast 4-5 spells to top one group member up. That's very slow.
    It's just strange to me, that Disc is so much better a group healer than a spot healer.

    Still better now than in SL.

  12. #72
    I think its more an issue with hybrid/support type classes in general. Shamans and Paladins get very similar treatment.

  13. #73
    Every single expansion the lowest HPS pumper with maximum amount of buttons. Despite having two healing specs and being the iconic healer in RPG genre. Restoration Druids were always on top tho.

  14. #74
    I wish they would just turn Disc into a DPS spec.
    Bring back DPS and heal Chakra stances for Holy.

  15. #75
    Herald of the Titans czarek's Avatar
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    After few weeks of playin in DF as SP and after tryin few builds. I can say its really satysfyin to play SP and claim 1st places on DPS chart. Playstyle isnt that simple as other dps classes but if you catch it up its just smooth and really good. Havent tried disc/holy yet.

  16. #76
    High Overlord RahEndymion's Avatar
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    Holy felt really nice at the end of SL. The DPS you put out was good and your HPS was good so the lack of utility in 5 man content was largely irrelevant. Your utility was healing while providing around 50% ish of the damage of the lowest DPS in the group.

    Now it feels like it's not really sure what it's supposed to do. I really enjoyed the Flash Concentration game play loop as holy. The arguments about it effectively forcing you into a certain playstyle seem a bit off the mark given the various builds available now lol

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by czarek View Post
    After few weeks of playin in DF as SP and after tryin few builds. I can say its really satysfyin to play SP and claim 1st places on DPS chart. Playstyle isnt that simple as other dps classes but if you catch it up its just smooth and really good. Havent tried disc/holy yet.
    Agreed. Using Mind Sear on a council boss is just super satisfying, especially when you can go ham with PI, Void Form and the squid.

    I did however realize yesterday that the builds on WoWhead aren't the best (for myself at least) and adapted them, basically omitting Mind Spike, since it just feels annoying to use only for the Procs. The result was very succesful and even the sim showed an increase of 5-7% damage. Not sure why that is, but if it feels better to play and has a sim-able damage increase I am gladly taking it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by RahEndymion View Post
    Holy felt really nice at the end of SL. The DPS you put out was good and your HPS was good so the lack of utility in 5 man content was largely irrelevant. Your utility was healing while providing around 50% ish of the damage of the lowest DPS in the group.

    Now it feels like it's not really sure what it's supposed to do. I really enjoyed the Flash Concentration game play loop as holy. The arguments about it effectively forcing you into a certain playstyle seem a bit off the mark given the various builds available now lol
    Well, you still have a pseudo FC playstyle with Lightweaver, just more in a builder-spender way. I feel we could use a bit more aoe healing outside of Sanctify and some more instants would be nice.

    Especially in higher M+ I feel like I can barely keep up with Lightweaving. When the whole group gets smacked for 90% health every few seconds then it is difficult to outheal that with just casts. Especially since Blizzard still finds it funny to increase difficulty by dealing insane damage AND forcing movement at the same time, making sure that most healers aren't getting more then a few seconds to heal up the group, which heavily punishes a class that is as reliant on casts as Holy.

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  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Velerios View Post
    Honestly, i think that priest is actually in the worst position from any classes; did hear that a dev quit, but why did priest then get the worst treatment of all classes?

    All other classes get updates regularly, issues get polished, feedback gets considered and changes are underway, and Priests got: yes, we know, but class fantasy (just because all other healers got it, homogenizing, blabla. And since we got NOTHING. No feedback, nothing. ONE update, and that's it; and nothing got accnowledged, instead we are the ONLY class that got following statement:

    WE ARE RIGHT AND YOU ARE WRONG.
    I was so hopeful after we got the first build, but then build over build it got somehow worse, now HOLY PRIESTS HAVE MIND BLAST TALENTS THAT THEY CAN'T EVEN USE BECAUSE THEY NO LONGER HAVE MIND BLAST! And without mind blast, having vampiric embrace as holy is a sick joke. And if a HUNTER somehow shed a tear, there are around 10 wow devs that even holds a hankerchief for him.

    Yes, this is a Rant, and i an so fed up with the bad treatment the class i play since vanilla got, that i even cancelled my pre-order of Dragonflight.
    Priests get more attention than most other classes.

    Seriously, warlocks and priest mains are by far the most whiny and toxic on forums.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    Priests get more attention than most other classes.

    Seriously, warlocks and priest mains are by far the most whiny and toxic on forums.
    Spriest has generally performed much better than virtually all the other hybrid DPS specs over the years.

    Disc has generally been one of, if not the best healer, for as long as I can remember.

    It wouldn't suprise me if Blizzard has given up listening to Priest feedback, as all the priest forums seem to be is complaints that they're not number 1 at everything all the time.

  20. #80
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    Shadow has a rotation that would make a pianist quit his job. I think that requires some looking into first and foremost.

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