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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Ereb View Post
    Spriests have been S tier for almost this entire expansion lol
    In M+ sure, but not in raids. Don't get me wrong, Shadow has been fine in raids aswell, but neither Echo or Limit used any SPs for any of the 3 raids, so hardly anywhere close to S tier.

    And again, I was talking about the history, not current tuning. Shadow, Ret and Ele ARE the 3 historic bottom feeders in terms of raid tuning, and it's not even a contest, even if it has been better since around Legion.
    They're (short for They are) describes a group of people. "They're/They are a nice bunch of guys." Their indicates that something belongs/is related to a group of people. "Their car was all out of fuel." There refers to a location. "Let's set up camp over there." There is also no such thing as "could/should OF". The correct way is: Could/should'VE, or could/should HAVE.
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  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by ThrashMetalFtw View Post
    In M+ sure, but not in raids. Don't get me wrong, Shadow has been fine in raids aswell, but neither Echo or Limit used any SPs for any of the 3 raids, so hardly anywhere close to S tier.

    And again, I was talking about the history, not current tuning. Shadow, Ret and Ele ARE the 3 historic bottom feeders in terms of raid tuning, and it's not even a contest, even if it has been better since around Legion.
    No spec in the game has received as many reworks as spriest has, so no even historically they have never been ignored. Spriests were super good in TBC, they were good in wotlk, they were very good in cata too, not sure about mop/wod if im honest idr. And you say it's been better since legion so I don't see the timeframe where spriests have been always ''bottom feeders''.

  3. #103
    SP was bottom Dps in both TBC and WotLK by a landslide, both because of lack of scaling. We were technically a support spec in TBC, but the raw numbers were still bottom. This scaling issue only got a bandaid fix right before the ICC patch that allowed our DoTs to scale with haste. SP was THE worst PvE dps in the game in MoP for the entire expansion. We were shit for half of WoD.

    And no, Blizzard reworking perfectly good versions of the spec that nobody wanted changed, only for them to spend 1-2 expansions to get the new version right, and then abandon it and start over again when it finally got good, is NOT a plus for Shadow in this discussion.
    They're (short for They are) describes a group of people. "They're/They are a nice bunch of guys." Their indicates that something belongs/is related to a group of people. "Their car was all out of fuel." There refers to a location. "Let's set up camp over there." There is also no such thing as "could/should OF". The correct way is: Could/should'VE, or could/should HAVE.
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  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by ThrashMetalFtw View Post
    SP was bottom Dps in both TBC and WotLK by a landslide, both because of lack of scaling. We were technically a support spec in TBC, but the raw numbers were still bottom. This scaling issue only got a bandaid fix right before the ICC patch that allowed our DoTs to scale with haste. SP was THE worst PvE dps in the game in MoP for the entire expansion. We were shit for half of WoD.

    And no, Blizzard reworking perfectly good versions of the spec that nobody wanted changed, only for them to spend 1-2 expansions to get the new version right, and then abandon it and start over again when it finally got good, is NOT a plus for Shadow in this discussion.
    Not even true I got server first HLK 25 and one of our top dps was a spriest. TBC they were more utility but everybody wanted one cuz mana. And again in DS they were top tier dps

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    Visually I think priests are the most boring of all classes. Shadow especially has an entire rotation of abilities that have nearly no visual at all (all DoTs, MB, MS) unless you are close enough to the enemy to see the poofs of purple smoke appear on their heads.
    This actually improves A LOT in TWW:

    https://i.imgur.com/TjfJ18J.mp4
    https://i.imgur.com/m0dfmMt.mp4
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Ereb View Post
    Not even true I got server first HLK 25 and one of our top dps was a spriest. TBC they were more utility but everybody wanted one cuz mana. And again in DS they were top tier dps
    "The Shadow Priest in my old guild was a significantly better player than everybody else in the guild" is really not a solid argument for your case.

    I don't even know why you are arguing at this point. When the top Shadow logs in the world are far behind the other classes, that's what determines how strong a spec is, not your anecdotal evidence from your own guild.

    Shadow, Ele and Ret have historically been the 3 lowest overall performers in raids excluding meme/PvP specs. That's the history, that's what the logs say. Shadow or any of the other two specs being strong for a patch or two does not change the overall picture.
    They're (short for They are) describes a group of people. "They're/They are a nice bunch of guys." Their indicates that something belongs/is related to a group of people. "Their car was all out of fuel." There refers to a location. "Let's set up camp over there." There is also no such thing as "could/should OF". The correct way is: Could/should'VE, or could/should HAVE.
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  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by ThrashMetalFtw View Post
    "The Shadow Priest in my old guild was a significantly better player than everybody else in the guild" is really not a solid argument for your case.

    I don't even know why you are arguing at this point. When the top Shadow logs in the world are far behind the other classes, that's what determines how strong a spec is, not your anecdotal evidence from your own guild.

    Shadow, Ele and Ret have historically been the 3 lowest overall performers in raids excluding meme/PvP specs. That's the history, that's what the logs say. Shadow or any of the other two specs being strong for a patch or two does not change the overall picture.
    I mean like I said we got server first HLK 25 so I dare say everybody was at least good at their class lol.

    And I'm seeing so much data from your end as well to strengthen your argument right? lol

    Hell even in classic where everything is hyper optimized and players are much better this time around I don't see spriest as a "bottom feeder" here my friend



    THIS is what the logs say lol. FAR from being a "bottom feeder" like you claim. Hell even right now when spriest was supposedly at their 'worst' during cata (the first tier) they are still middle of the pack and not even far from top dps in the game...
    Last edited by Ereb; 2024-06-06 at 03:03 PM.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by melzas View Post
    "My class isn't getting as much attention as I want" is kinda childish and quite frankly, pathetic.
    Yeah that's absolutely true. Just look at all the other same threads that exist in the other class forums and it's the same story.

    Or actually some of them are even worse, like Warlocks who feel personally attacked all the time when their class isn't performing and some of them even go and threaten the devs irl for it lol.

    Also lol at that guy who claims that priests were just never good when a lot of us still remember spriest being both good in PVE and straight up dominating in MoP PVP. But that's ofc typical for a lot of people who only play 1 class: When they aren't FOTM and borderline broken then they are bottom feeders and the devs hate them personally IRL.
    Last edited by RobertMugabe; 2024-06-06 at 03:26 PM.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Ereb View Post
    I mean like I said we got server first HLK 25 so I dare say everybody was at least good at their class lol.

    And I'm seeing so much data from your end as well to strengthen your argument right? lol

    Hell even in classic where everything is hyper optimized and players are much better this time around I don't see spriest as a "bottom feeder" here my friend



    THIS is what the logs say lol. FAR from being a "bottom feeder" like you claim. Hell even right now when spriest was supposedly at their 'worst' during cata (the first tier) they are still middle of the pack and not even far from top dps in the game...
    Shadow or any of the other two specs being strong for a patch or two does not change the overall picture.
    Read again please.

    Shadow was middle of the pack in ICC. Not top. Middle. As I already said, ICC is obviously after the buffs that Shadow (and Ele) got right before the launch of ICC. Why did they get these buffs?`Because they were the two weakest specs in the game during t7, t8 and t9. So again, since you want every bit of info spoonfed to you. Worst specs in the game for three tiers + middle of the pack for one tier = overall bottom feeders for the expansion. Inbefore more Classic logs get linked for those earlier tiers, that's really not relevant, since we had 3.3 talents for all of WotLK classic.

    And no. Shadow is not supposedly at their worst in Cata. Cata was historically the best expansion for Shadow before Legion, and it's not even close.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    Also lol at that guy who claims that priests were just never good when a lot of us still remember spriest being both good in PVE and straight up dominating in MoP PVP. But that's ofc typical for a lot of people who only play 1 class: When they aren't FOTM and borderline broken then they are bottom feeders and the devs hate them personally IRL.
    Time to go to the doctor. If you remember Shadow being good in PvE at any point in MoP, there might be a case of brain damage. My Lock and Mage alts literally did more dmg than my full BiS Shadow Priest at like 30 iLvls worse gear, and I had 99% logs on every single fight in 25HC on my Priest, while just winging it on those two alts-
    Last edited by ThrashMetalFtw; 2024-06-07 at 03:27 PM.
    They're (short for They are) describes a group of people. "They're/They are a nice bunch of guys." Their indicates that something belongs/is related to a group of people. "Their car was all out of fuel." There refers to a location. "Let's set up camp over there." There is also no such thing as "could/should OF". The correct way is: Could/should'VE, or could/should HAVE.
    Holyfury armory

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by ThrashMetalFtw View Post
    Time to go to the doctor. If you remember Shadow being good in PvE at any point in MoP, there might be a case of brain damage. My Lock and Mage alts literally did more dmg than my full BiS Shadow Priest at like 30 iLvls worse gear, and I had 99% logs on every single fight in 25HC on my Priest, while just winging it on those two alts-
    It's bold to defend your opinion when there are logs that prove you wrong. Shadow was around middle of the pack in mop. Just because you didn't do well with your priest doesn't mean everyone did.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Foolicious View Post
    It's bold to defend your opinion when there are logs that prove you wrong. Shadow was around middle of the pack in mop. Just because you didn't do well with your priest doesn't mean everyone did.
    It's a bit weird the victim complex he seems to have about spriests, rewriting history to fit his narrative

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Ereb View Post
    It's a bit weird the victim complex he seems to have about spriests, rewriting history to fit his narrative
    So the part about Rets and Ele Shamans suffering the same fate is also victim complex, right? Or am I correct about that, but making up shit when it comes to the class I mained?

    Quote Originally Posted by Foolicious View Post
    It's bold to defend your opinion when there are logs that prove you wrong. Shadow was around middle of the pack in mop. Just because you didn't do well with your priest doesn't mean everyone did.
    Just went back to WCL to check out the 25HC SoO logs again to see if my memory actually was wrong. Nope, it was still true.

    The logs show exactly what I said they would. Out of the viable Dps specs (so, excluding the worst specs from pure Dps classes who had a significantly stronger spec available), Shadow was bottom 3 on all fights in SoO, and these are from the end of expansion with BiS gear. Shadow, while being undertuned, DID scale pretty well, so it was even worse during progress. The one fight where Shadow was doing well, was literally a grief raid where all the other Dps were afk, and the SP was allowed to do mass AoE for the entire fight.

    Didn't bother to check ToT, but it was the same story in that raid.
    Last edited by ThrashMetalFtw; 2024-06-07 at 07:13 PM.
    They're (short for They are) describes a group of people. "They're/They are a nice bunch of guys." Their indicates that something belongs/is related to a group of people. "Their car was all out of fuel." There refers to a location. "Let's set up camp over there." There is also no such thing as "could/should OF". The correct way is: Could/should'VE, or could/should HAVE.
    Holyfury armory

  13. #113
    Shadow was enjoyable for different, utility-focused reasons in TBC, woefully under-tuned for much of WotLK, gloriously wonderful in Cata, bottom of the pack in MoP. Absolutely no way were SPs middle of the pack in MoP. That's comical. We had our moment in Cata and then were thoroughly benched. Gave up in Legion.

    How's Shadow in Dragonflight? Any fun?

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Ereb View Post
    Are you trying show us LK classic data and conveniently implying that it's from the actual LK back in the day? That's very dishonest, I like it!

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