Loot Changes with Classic: 10m loot to H+ mode, 25m to 10man mode

[Relapses]

kinda happens when you only have a few mega servers left after everyone flocks too them from their dying servers because its a MMO and they want people to play with...

Bliz paying you to suck up and defend them? our just like brown nosing for them, hoping for gold text on the forums?

*21 brand new servers? think they would have a few laying around

I am not being paid by Blizzard to do anything. I'm annoyed by people whose entire fucking online persona is defined by hating Blizzard routinely filling up discussion forums with their useless takes about how the "game is dying" and how the "incompetent developers" refuse to listen them. These dogshit takes bury legitimate feedback and make this community seem like it's full of entitled manchildren incapable of critical thinking skills beyond that of a third grader.

[Dadwen]

I am not being paid by Blizzard to do anything. I'm annoyed by people whose entire fucking online persona is defined by hating Blizzard routinely filling up discussion forums with their useless takes about how the "game is dying" and how the "incompetent developers" refuse to listen them. These dogshit takes bury legitimate feedback and make this community seem like it's full of entitled manchildren incapable of critical thinking skills beyond that of a third grader.

when a company pulls a bait and switch they deserve all the hate they have come their way,
Bliz: we're releasing LK classic (*in major quotes """CLASSIC""" well or crap reforged version of it).

right game is doing great silly me (as you close the curtain on the pile of dead servers behind it, and mumble nothing to see here)

right like mine an many others feed back, release Dam classic how it came out and don't fuck with it.....!

critical thinking skills = blizzards stooge huh...

[Kralljin]

And then ICC comes out, the 5mans are either buffed unnecessarily or they are irrelevant because better loot was available from dungeons an entire phase earlier.

That cannot happen realistically.

Once ToC comes out, Ulduar 10man Loot will drop in dungeons.
That loot is 226 by their current plans, if Hardmode loot is included you will have a handful of items with 238 (again, Ulduar Hardmode loot table isn't very huge).

ICC 5man dungeons drop 232 Loot, so with the current plans you'll have a parity with ToC 10man Normal loot, which then drops in dungeons but they are going to be objectively superior to 226 Ulduar 10man Normal loot.

I don't know, you seem to have a serious hateboner for Ulduar and just overlook for some reason that ToC Itemlevel is the reason why ICC 5man dungeon loot is being degraded (which does not mean it's being made irrelevant), not because of Ulduar.

[RobertMugabe]

Blizzard: you want to play original LK?????
players: hell ya!!!
Blizzard: well sorry about your luck....

Yeah for all I care they could've done some changes to Vanilla and TBC, but I don't recall people asking for changes in Wrath LOL.

Like I don't even know who asked for the Quest Finder and LFD being removed in Wrath either. It was something that people explicitly didn't want in Classic Vanilla, because it was not part of the game back then (and it truly does ruin the experience for VANILLA), but there have been almost no people asking for this stuff to be done in Wrath.

[Relapses]

when a company pulls a bait and switch they deserve all the hate they have come their way,
Bliz: we're releasing LK classic (*in major quotes """CLASSIC""" well or crap reforged version of it).

right game is doing great silly me (as you close the curtain on the pile of dead servers behind it, and mumble nothing to see here)

right like mine an many others feed back, release Dam classic how it came out and don't fuck with it.....!

critical thinking skills = blizzards stooge huh...

Where's the bait and switch? They've been incredibly forthcoming with all the changes they're making. The only people getting "baited and switched" are those who think they know what's better for the game than the developers themselves.

[Bigbazz]

ICC 5man dungeons drop 232 Loot, so with the current plans you'll have a parity with ToC 10man Normal loot, which then drops in dungeons but they are going to be objectively superior to 226 Ulduar 10man Normal loot.

This is not true, Ulduar 226 loot is better itemised with more attractive stats, more sockets, tier set bonuses and stronger procs. The Thorim trinket was originally ilvl226 and was already stronger than the catchup ilvl232 version from Forge of Souls HC, and it's not even close. Now it's going to be dropping from 5man dungeons in an even more buffed form?

ICC5mans are obsolete before the release. Also that pre-ICC bis Ulduar trinket is deleted from game when ICC comes out if HC+ loot moves to T9 10man and Ulduar 10man is dropping 25man loot, also fantastic design. It's a pile of shite idea, awful.

[Relapses]

This is not true, Ulduar 226 loot is better itemised with more attractive stats, more sockets, tier set bonuses and stronger procs. The Thorim trinket was originally ilvl226 and was already stronger than the catchup ilvl232 version from Forge of Souls HC, and it's not even close. Now it's going to be dropping from 5man dungeons in an even more buffed form?

ICC5mans are obsolete before the release. Also that pre-ICC bis Ulduar trinket is deleted from game when ICC comes out if HC+ loot moves to T9 10man and Ulduar 10man is dropping 25man loot, also fantastic design. It's a pile of shite idea, awful.

You're getting upset about something that has neither happened nor is confirmed to be happening. This change is designed specifically to provide raid-agnostic catch-up gear for Ulduar. We have no way of knowing whether they'd continue it moving into other tiers.

[Bigbazz]

You're getting upset about something that has neither happened nor is confirmed to be happening. This change is designed specifically to provide raid-agnostic catch-up gear for Ulduar. We have no way of knowing whether they'd continue it moving into other tiers.

Well it's the logical conclusion that if their plan is to put previous tier 10man loot into dungeons then that is what will happen? And if they have to adjust other dungeon drops to balance that all it's further just pushing this away from being WOTLK. I don't want to play WOTLK the remix edition, or "WOTLK Modern" I want to just play WOTLK.

This was legit without any doubt the most successful period of the game, the most popular... And so why is the the version of the game that is getting the most changes? Did we not sign up for replaying old expansions as they were, with nostalgia? Now we're talking about Mythic dungeons and raid loot in dungeons with 10mans providing 25man loot and T9 being neutered down to 2 lockouts with Ulduar loot being buffed?

It's a mess, I don't want to play this custom private server with edits made by a 16 year old.

[Relapses]

It's a mess, I don't want to play this custom private server with edits made by a 16 year old.

There are other ways they could tackle catch-up gear in ICC. Heroic+ isn't M+ and if it flops I'm sure they'll have plenty of data to go back to the drawing board with. I understand the sentiment but I really don't think any of the changes they've announced so far are against the spirit of WotLK Classic and in general just help make the game more accessible to a wider audience of players.

[Bigbazz]

There are other ways they could tackle catch-up gear in ICC. Heroic+ isn't M+ and if it flops I'm sure they'll have plenty of data to go back to the drawing board with. I understand the sentiment but I really don't think any of the changes they've announced so far are against the spirit of WotLK Classic and in general just help make the game more accessible to a wider audience of players.

Catchup gear in WOTLK was already the best it had ever been, you farmed dungeons for badges to buy previous tier loot and the badge catchup pieces which were really good. That combined with TOTC dungeon in T9 and ICC5mans in T10, VOA (new wings added each tier) alongside easily available crafted items, BOE drops, the ICC rep ring, the battered hilt and even Shadow's Edge.

T9 also served as catchup, with normal and heroic being farmable, which allowed returning players/guilds to gear up in normal in order to progress heroic without having to go and farm Ulduar Hardmode loot.. WOTLK item catchup was already amazing, which is why this is completely unnecessary. If they want people to do dungeons after phase one they should add RDF, at least that's a feature that people actually want and isn't just a fan fiction edit.

People farmed HC dungeons for the entirety of WOTLK, if you play on a Pserver at end phase today you can get a HC5man dungeon at any time with the RDF, subject to a short wait for a tank/healer just like retail.

[Kralljin]

This is not true, Ulduar 226 loot is better itemised with more attractive stats, more sockets, tier set bonuses and stronger procs. The Thorim trinket was originally ilvl226 and was already stronger than the catchup ilvl232 version from Forge of Souls HC, and it's not even close. Now it's going to be dropping from 5man dungeons in an even more buffed form?

I think you're immediately making the assumption here that i've already outlined which is very much in doubt: Hardmode Loot will be included among the 5man dungeon loot.

Which is, when you think about it, actually very unlikely.
1. Hardmode Loot is massively better (by 12 Ilvl)
2. Hardmode Loot is pretty scarce (because only a bunch of them exist)

Lich King heroics (not including Trial of the Champion or ICC dungeons) encompasses a total of ~49 Bosses (give or take a few) and Ulduar 10man has about 60 Hardmode Items in total.
So Hardmode items cannot fill a complete loot table of their own, meaning it's very unlikely that it will get its own dungeon difficulty, meaning they'll either become a rare drop off certain bosses or Blizzard goes so far and adds additional hardmodes to some dungeon bosses (which i believe is very unlikely).

Your entire criticism stands upon the assumption that Hardmode items will be included in the dungeon list, which is frankly not confirmed nor is it visible how they're going to be handled (if at all).
It's entirely possible that any Hardmode or Heroic difficulty will just be straight absent from the 5man dungeon loot table - which in my view makes a lot of sense as it would get extremely confusing.

So rather than complain how terrible this change is, make the argument to exclude Hardmode or heroic loot from it - which is something that Blizzard hasn't talked about to begin with because then your criticism just falls apart.
Boom, ICC 5man dungeon then still very much have a value and you have a Ilvl parity among all dungeons once ToC 10man Normal mode loot drops there.

Also that pre-ICC bis Ulduar trinket is deleted from game when ICC comes out if HC+ loot moves to T9 10man and Ulduar 10man is dropping 25man loot, also fantastic design. It's a pile of shite idea, awful.

Okay, what now?

Is the Mjolnir Runestone being deleted from the game once Ulduar 10man drops 25man Loot or does a hypothetical Mjolnir Runestone from 5man dungeons effectively replace Needle encrusted scorpion?

If Mjolnir Runestone is "gone", then it doesn't replace Needle Encrusted Scorpion.
If Mjolnir Runestone drops in dungeons, then it's not removed.

You could just also move the 10man Hardmode Loot and add it to the 25man Normal Loot table, the Ilvl are identical, so there's hardly any loss there.

[Fkiolaris]

If blizzard had the will or manpower to do it IMO they should have a selection screen on LK launch like they did with Classic to BC where you pick WotLK faithful recreation and WotLK SOM, (hell they can even be greedy letting people pay extra to have a clone on each like they did with Classic and BC)

I agree with this, but unironically I believe they wouldn't do it because they know from private servers that the vast majority of players would go straight for the faithful version (I can't even call it Classic anymore).

Catchup gear in WOTLK was already the best it had ever been, you farmed dungeons for badges to buy previous tier loot and the badge catchup pieces which were really good. That combined with TOTC dungeon in T9 and ICC5mans in T10, VOA (new wings added each tier) alongside easily available crafted items, BOE drops, the ICC rep ring, the battered hilt and even Shadow's Edge.

T9 also served as catchup, with normal and heroic being farmable, which allowed returning players/guilds to gear up in normal in order to progress heroic without having to go and farm Ulduar Hardmode loot.. WOTLK item catchup was already amazing, which is why this is completely unnecessary. If they want people to do dungeons after phase one they should add RDF, at least that's a feature that people actually want and isn't just a fan fiction edit.

People farmed HC dungeons for the entirety of WOTLK, if you play on a Pserver at end phase today you can get a HC5man dungeon at any time with the RDF, subject to a short wait for a tank/healer just like retail.

This is what is baffling to me as well. My memory is not great, but I honestly do not remember having gearing issues in WotLK as a casual player. So what problem exactly are they trying to fix with this? That the Heroic dungeons were progressively (even) easier with the players becoming better geared so they wanted to justify their retail hardon for "increased difficulty" of casual content by trying to bribe players with raid gear? That's the only thing I can think of that kind of makes sense in relation to modern Blizzard. But beyond that, the fact is in original WotLK gearing catch-up was the least of your worries, especially after the LFD tool came into the game.

[Dadwen]

Where's the bait and switch? They've been incredibly forthcoming with all the changes they're making. The only people getting "baited and switched" are those who think they know what's better for the game than the developers themselves.

right so forthcoming they are still announcing changes to it, at the same time they'd already started to put some of LK it into play on the servers.

Blizzard: We're releasing wrath of the lich king classic, (gee I must have missed the fine print) not to be confused in any way with the original Wrath of the Lich king expansion, we have to put or shitty (subjective) -> improvements on it though...

At this point I think most 12 years olds would know better than the dips they have in place, re-release a popular version of something, release it and not some bastard child of it.

[Ragu4]

I've been against #nochanges since classic vanilla ended, so the more QoL and other cool updates the better.

I'll never buy their dumb mount bundles though. They will get the bare minimum $15 a month lol.

[Relapses]

right so forthcoming they are still announcing changes to it, at the same time they'd already started to put some of LK it into play on the servers.

Blizzard: We're releasing wrath of the lich king classic, (gee I must have missed the fine print) not to be confused in any way with the original Wrath of the Lich king expansion, we have to put or shitty (subjective) -> improvements on it though...

At this point I think most 12 years olds would know better than the dips they have in place, re-release a popular version of something, release it and not some bastard child of it.

Oh no, the game is more accessible to more players. The humanity!

- - - Updated - - -

This is what is baffling to me as well. My memory is not great, but I honestly do not remember having gearing issues in WotLK as a casual player. So what problem exactly are they trying to fix with this? That the Heroic dungeons were progressively (even) easier with the players becoming better geared so they wanted to justify their retail hardon for "increased difficulty" of casual content by trying to bribe players with raid gear? That's the only thing I can think of that kind of makes sense in relation to modern Blizzard. But beyond that, the fact is in original WotLK gearing catch-up was the least of your worries, especially after the LFD tool came into the game.

They know there are a lot of players skipping T7 and waiting for T8 to come out. This is designed to help bridge the gap for new/returning players in T8 so that it's easier to get into raiding.

[Dadwen]

Oh no, the game is more accessible to more players. The humanity!

- - - Updated - - -



They know there are a lot of players skipping T7 and waiting for T8 to come out. This is designed to help bridge the gap for new/returning players in T8 so that it's easier to get into raiding.

But not RDF accessible right?!? stuck on a shit server Blizzard: well $$$$$ we have a fix for you.......!
Like they give a shit about accessibly.....

[Relapses]

But not RDF accessible right?!? stuck on a shit server Blizzard: well $$$$$ we have a fix for you.......!
Like they give a shit about accessibly.....

Some accessibility features are bad for the game. :^)

[Dadwen]

This is what is baffling to me as well. My memory is not great, but I honestly do not remember having gearing issues in WotLK as a casual player. So what problem exactly are they trying to fix with this? That the Heroic dungeons were progressively (even) easier with the players becoming better geared so they wanted to justify their retail hardon for "increased difficulty" of casual content by trying to bribe players with raid gear? That's the only thing I can think of that kind of makes sense in relation to modern Blizzard. But beyond that, the fact is in original WotLK gearing catch-up was the least of your worries, especially after the LFD tool came into the game.

I had no issues gearing up in LK and that's including the 4 or 5 alts I started after ICC (best was spamming RDF with a Pally tank, geared to high heaven with badge gear, and a few other toys, only expansion I ever tanked, friends guild even had me tanking for them some on the side *mine at the time had some awesome tanks and I liked playing my main hunter so that worked out great.

- - - Updated - - -

Some accessibility features are bad for the game. :^)

ya I really hate it when I have enough people to run dungeons with, hell just the other day me an a buddy "say don't you hate being able to play and run dungeons and not just stand around doing nothing or spam the same dam fucking quests for the 5th time because there no other fucking way to get XP....).

ya really bad for the game......

[Relapses]

ya I really hate it when I have enough people to run dungeons with, hell just the other day me an a buddy "say don't you hate being able to play and run dungeons and not just stand around doing nothing or spam the same dam fucking quests for the 5th time because there no other fucking way to get XP....).

ya really bad for the game......

It's not the game's fault you and your friend are lazy as fuck.

[Dadwen]

It's not the game's fault you and your friend are lazy as fuck.

silly me me and my buddy and maybe the one other person on the fucking server with in our level and on our faction should have no problem running the 5 man dungeon right.... *why becaue everyone else paid to move to some mega server (now the ones with queues blizzards begging people to transfer off of)

ya nothing to do with blizzard greed or their shit laziness to fix the server balances .

few dumb asses think RDF kills social or some BS (but not for pvp SURE TELEPORT YOUR ASS OFF).