Loot Changes with Classic: 10m loot to H+ mode, 25m to 10man mode

[Relapses]

silly me me and my buddy and maybe the one other person on the fucking server or level and on our faction should have no problem running the 5 man dungeon right.... *why becaue everyone else paid to move to some mega server (now the ones with queues blizzards begging people to transfer off of)

ya nothing to do with blizzard greed or their shit laziness to fix the server balances .

Sucks to suck, I guess. What you're describing is a social problem not a Blizzard problem.

[Dadwen]

Sucks to suck, I guess. What you're describing is a social problem not a Blizzard problem.

Right no server blocks caps sooner or stopping paid transfers noooo all the players faults...

[Relapses]

Right no server blocks caps sooner or stopping paid transfers noooo all the players faults...

Hindsight is 20/20. Players choosing to go to already-full servers instead of the innumerable medium-pop servers is kind of a player issue and not a Blizzard issue, though. They recently outright came out and said that the idea of mega servers needed to die. None of this has anything to do with their choice not to add the RDF to the game. It's all just weird whataboutism on your part to try to diminish the underlying fact that you're just upset you weren't consulted personally on the design decisions Blizzard implements in their billion dollar game franchise. It's cute that you think so highly of yourself but you're just wrong on this one.

[Dadwen]

Hindsight is 20/20. Players choosing to go to already-full servers instead of the innumerable medium-pop servers is kind of a player issue and not a Blizzard issue, though. They recently outright came out and said that the idea of mega servers needed to die. None of this has anything to do with their choice not to add the RDF to the game. It's all just weird whataboutism on your part to try to diminish the underlying fact that you're just upset you weren't consulted personally on the design decisions Blizzard implements in their billion dollar game franchise. It's cute that you think so highly of yourself but you're just wrong on this one.

gee good thing blizzards clearly lists the server populations and faction so we as players can make informed decisions....

also Gee why I wonder people might want to be on a mega server hmmmmmmmmmm sure it will come to me....

I'm upset because I was expecting Wrath of the lich king not (LK with our shit remaster touch on it, brought to you by the people that have been running people off from retail for years).

ya blizzard seems to be shit at hindsight huh... maybe best not to change things and leave what worked the first time.

right it's just me (I'm touched you're ignoring all the other negative posts about it an just my personal fan) (*wow really you must not visit the official forums much).

speaking of official forums (but ya just me not happy with them and only me).

more up-votes than the blue post - (but not as much as the RDF request)

[Relapses]

gee good thing blizzards clearly lists the server populations and faction so we as players can make informed decisions....

also Gee why I wonder people might want to be on a mega server hmmmmmmmmmm sure it will come to me....

I'm upset because I was expecting Wrath of the lich king not (LK with our shit remaster touch on it, brought to you by the people that have been running people off from retail for years).

ya blizzard seems to be shit at hindsight huh... maybe best not to change things and leave what worked the first time.

right it's just me (I'm touched you're ignoring all the other negative posts about it an just my personal fan) (*wow really you must not visit the official forums much).

speaking of official forums (but ya just me not happy with them and only me).

more up-votes than the blue post - (but not as much as the RDF request)

I know there's a populous movement to return the RDF. I've never argued against that. Hell, I've said multiple times that I'd love to have it back. But I personally don't think it's necessary and I agree with the reasoning they've provided for not adding it thus far. I think people are more upset that Blizzard took a stance on this issue than they are about whether the feature itself exists or not. People always want the thing they can't have.

Anyway, none of this has anything to do with the topic of this thread so I'm going to leave it here. Have a nice day, friend. :-)

[Dadwen]

I know there's a populous movement to return the RDF. I've never argued against that. Hell, I've said multiple times that I'd love to have it back. But I personally don't think it's necessary and I agree with the reasoning they've provided for not adding it thus far. I think people are more upset that Blizzard took a stance on this issue than they are about whether the feature itself exists or not. People always want the thing they can't have.

Anyway, none of this has anything to do with the topic of this thread so I'm going to leave it here. Have a nice day, friend. :-)

*you sure seem to agree with blizzard with that RDF is bad for the game? https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53916378

people also want things that make their game experience better imagine that... (and you must not read the forums seems a lot also wants the current dev to leave their shitty touches off it (very much on topic).

People wanted Classic and blizzard said we could not have it yet here we are.......

[Relapses]

*you sure seem to agree with blizzard with that RDF is bad for the game? https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53916378

people also want things that make their game experience better imagine that... (and you must not read the forums seems a lot also wants the current dev to leave their shitty touches off it (very much on topic).

People wanted Classic and blizzard said we could not have it yet here we are.......

Blizzard has never said that the RDF is bad for the game and I was simply making the argument that half a dozen of one isn't six of another. I think getting magically ported to instances and the general anti-social nature which features like the RDF encourage are not very good for the game. I also think that if you want that kind of experience that you can easily just play retail instead. (This is literally what Ion said when the topic came up in the WotLK announcement.) Blizzard clearly wants Classic to fill a certain niche in the MMO space and they likely feel something the RDF would push the game too far in the direction of design choices which ultimately led to Classic existing in the first place. We can argue until we're blue in the face about whether this is the "right" choice but I support their decision to keep some things in Classic fundamentally different from retail.

[Warning]

If I heard Kris Zierhut correctly he said they're bumping Ulduar by 6 ilvls, and Hardmodes by 13 ilvls? That would mean 252 Voldrethar etc. PVP loot would need to be bumped to 242, and weapons also to 252 as well as wintergrasp item changes. Kinda leaves a very small gap for the next seasons gear, which has weapons at 258. Think this is a mistake honestly. Hardmode should maybe be 245 with ToC toned down to 242 (-3 ilvls). Seems more reasonable, even though its already a pretty big balance and gameplay change with these different stats.

[Dadwen]

Blizzard has never said that the RDF is bad for the game and I was simply making the argument that half a dozen of one isn't six of another. I think getting magically ported to instances and the general anti-social nature which features like the RDF encourage are not very good for the game. I also think that if you want that kind of experience that you can easily just play retail instead. (This is literally what Ion said when the topic came up in the WotLK announcement.) Blizzard clearly wants Classic to fill a certain niche in the MMO space and they likely feel something the RDF would push the game too far in the direction of design choices which ultimately led to Classic existing in the first place. We can argue until we're blue in the face about whether this is the "right" choice but I support their decision to keep some things in Classic fundamentally different from retail.

"Just play retail is one of the most insulting things IMO you can say at this point", you could not pay me to play that trash, shit scaling and even more shitty class design. (and yes Ion is a dumb ass for even suggesting it.)

ya more of blizzards shit, getting teleported to the PVE entrance baaaad, and then suddenly with PVP, sure out in the world no pesky running to the BG entrance or a battlemaster just queue up and woosh.... (and you really wonder why I think they are shit).

retail had a lot of reasons not to play that trash heap but RDF is not one of them.

[Grinning Serpent]

There's a lot of valid reasons to not put RDF into the game. You could argue for the same about teleporting BGs, but it's not hard to see that being unable to queue for BGs while doing stuff in the world would mean fewer people doing BGs, resulting in longer queues. Imagine if you couldn't even post yourself as available for a dungeon/search for players unless you went to the meeting stone first - you'd have a lot fewer players doing dungeons. If I'm nose deep in Swamp of Sorrows quests, asking me to hearth back to Shatt and take a long flight to Gadgetzan so I can queue up for Zul'farrak (and then have to make my way back to Swamp of Sorrows to continue those quests) before even knowing if there are people wanting to run it is a lot to ask - compared to just letting me post/view postings and decide for myself if there's enough players around that it would be worth it to start heading to the stone while forming a group.

RDF might be necessary if player participation gets low enough that they feel it's the only way to get dungeon queues back into reasonable ranges. But I don't think it's necessary right now, nor do I think it would be helpful.

[Dadwen]

There's a lot of valid reasons to not put RDF into the game. You could argue for the same about teleporting BGs, but it's not hard to see that being unable to queue for BGs while doing stuff in the world would mean fewer people doing BGs, resulting in longer queues. Imagine if you couldn't even post yourself as available for a dungeon/search for players unless you went to the meeting stone first - you'd have a lot fewer players doing dungeons. If I'm nose deep in Swamp of Sorrows quests, asking me to hearth back to Shatt and take a long flight to Gadgetzan so I can queue up for Zul'farrak (and then have to make my way back to Swamp of Sorrows to continue those quests) before even knowing if there are people wanting to run it is a lot to ask - compared to just letting me post/view postings and decide for myself if there's enough players around that it would be worth it to start heading to the stone while forming a group.

RDF might be necessary if player participation gets low enough that they feel it's the only way to get dungeon queues back into reasonable ranges. But I don't think it's necessary right now, nor do I think it would be helpful.

just think of all that social aspect all you like minded PVP'ers standing around the instance\battle master will have, think of all the friends you'll make.....

Try saying that on some of the faction imbalanced server where there are not more than 3 people with in your level to form a group for a dungeon..... and note, I don't have to imagine it, I've seen it in action (who 20 - 40 ) 2 whole people on the list in your level for the entire server on your faction and you're one. *seems reading the official forums it's still happening on some servers.

[Grinning Serpent]

just think of all that social aspect all you like minded PVP'ers standing around the instance\battle master will have, think of all the friends you'll make.....

Try saying that on some of the faction imbalanced server where there are not more than 3 people with in your level to form a group for a dungeon..... and note, I don't have to imagine it, I've seen it in action (who 20 - 40 ) 2 whole people on the list in your level for the entire server on your faction and you're one. *seems reading the official forums it's still happening on some servers.

It's not Blizzard's problem if people are stupid and flock to a single faction or other on a given server. People should just stop being stupid.

All of you people clamoring for RFD will be right back here 30 minutes later screaming about how it's ruined everything, or how your dungeon/raid groups are so terrible, etc. Blizzard's best off just literally ignoring all of you and doing whatever they feel like doing.

Play it, or don't play it.

[Dadwen]

It's not Blizzard's problem if people are stupid and flock to a single faction or other on a given server. People should just stop being stupid.

All of you people clamoring for RFD will be right back here 30 minutes later screaming about how it's ruined everything, or how your dungeon/raid groups are so terrible, etc. Blizzard's best off just literally ignoring all of you and doing whatever they feel like doing.

Play it, or don't play it.

ya too bad they are completely helpless to stop it all that arm twi$ting people asking for transfers.... poor helpless blizzard....
*stop being stupid are you serious?!? (people getting stuck on what's left of the server after everyone else transferred off, right like jumping ship to either a mega server and being part of the problem or a mid server and repeat the same thing that just went though is the smart thing?) ya "stop being stupid" anything else dumber to say?

Funny I played all though LK and loved RDF probably the only reason I stayed subbed all the way with no break till Cata launch.... (I've played all the way till WOD and I've never had a complaint about RDF or LFR).

ya not playing, and along with others warning people this dumpster fire is not lich king but a butchered version of it.

well ignoring people is something blizzards been fairly good at for a while no arguments there.

[Grinning Serpent]

ya too bad they are completely helpless to stop it all that arm twi$ting people asking for transfers.... poor helpless blizzard....

Funny I played all though LK and loved RDF probably the only reason I stayed subbed all the way with no break till Cata launch.... (I've played all the way till WOD and I've never had a complaint about RDF or LFR).

ya not playing, and along with others warning people this dumpster fire is not lich king but a butchered version of it.

well ignoring people is something blizzards been fairly good at for a while no arguments there.

I mean, any developer with a brain that has a playerbase larger than lukewarm IQ ignores 90% of player feedback. J. Allen Brack is a colossal douchebag, but he was not wrong when he said what he said, and we're seeing that proven time and time again in Classic. Players almost never know what they actually want, and even when they get it, it's not what other players want (see: changes vs no changes arguments), so the best solution is to decide on a course of action and stick with it and people can decide if your particular version of things is something they would like to play or not.

Personally, I'm having a blast. A whole lot of other people seem to be, too. There's stuff I find irritating and annoying, and sometimes I think that they could make minor adjustments to alleviate the worst of it without ruining the "classic feel"... but it's not severe enough to make me want to stop playing.

I do agree that Blizzard could have handled the free transfers situation a lot better, but in fairness they were VERY explicit that the free transfers would be immediately shut off as soon as server populations reached their targets. I think the people who had initiated transfers but failed to complete them due to NPC mail being hung up (there are some quests where an NPC will send you mail afterwards from a few hours to a few days later) should be given free transfers, as they initiated the transfer during the free period and were hung up by something that's ultimately on Blizzard's end, not the player's. But the people who hemmed and hawed and ended up missing the jump by a few hours? Too bad, so sad, make a new character or pay to transfer your existing one - you knew that transfers would be shut off without warning, so why'd you wait so long?

As for faction imbalance and so on, I can only assume that Blizzard will continue to offer free periodic faction-specific transfers and incentives for new character creation (and possibly even faction-lock servers) to try and maintain balance.

[Dadwen]

I mean, any developer with a brain that has a playerbase larger than lukewarm IQ ignores 90% of player feedback. J. Allen Brack is a colossal douchebag, but he was not wrong when he said what he said, and we're seeing that proven time and time again in Classic. Players almost never know what they actually want, and even when they get it, it's not what other players want (see: changes vs no changes arguments), so the best solution is to decide on a course of action and stick with it and people can decide if your particular version of things is something they would like to play or not.

Personally, I'm having a blast. A whole lot of other people seem to be, too. There's stuff I find irritating and annoying, and sometimes I think that they could make minor adjustments to alleviate the worst of it without ruining the "classic feel"... but it's not severe enough to make me want to stop playing.

I do agree that Blizzard could have handled the free transfers situation a lot better, but in fairness they were VERY explicit that the free transfers would be immediately shut off as soon as server populations reached their targets. I think the people who had initiated transfers but failed to complete them due to NPC mail being hung up (there are some quests where an NPC will send you mail afterwards from a few hours to a few days later) should be given free transfers, as they initiated the transfer during the free period and were hung up by something that's ultimately on Blizzard's end, not the player's. But the people who hemmed and hawed and ended up missing the jump by a few hours? Too bad, so sad, make a new character or pay to transfer your existing one - you knew that transfers would be shut off without warning, so why'd you wait so long?

As for faction imbalance and so on, I can only assume that Blizzard will continue to offer free periodic faction-specific transfers and incentives for new character creation (and possibly even faction-lock servers) to try and maintain balance.

ya that's why as discussed with someone else, 21 servers were shuttered (great work there kudos all around to the bliz team) keep up the good work.

I don't want (and many others) the classic feel or "the pillars put together by a bunch of pillocks" we wanted Classic itself.


I watched from about 3 months into BC classic up till July blizzard had not done jack shit for faction imbalance servers no transfers NOTHING what this crap about

As for faction imbalance and so on, I can only assume that Blizzard will continue to offer free periodic faction-specific transfers and incentives for new character creation (and possibly even faction-lock servers) to try and maintain balance.

Where the hell did you get this above fairly tail assumption from??????

[Fkiolaris]

They know there are a lot of players skipping T7 and waiting for T8 to come out. This is designed to help bridge the gap for new/returning players in T8 so that it's easier to get into raiding.

I disagree. They could do that very easily while staying "within the spirit of Classic" by:

1) Increasing the number of emblems dropping
2) Reducing the prices on the vendor (and add one if there wasn't for that patch)
3) Adding on the vendor some of/all the extra items

And there you have it. A system that was already in Wrath with changes to achieve what you say. But no, they want Mythic (not plus, yet) from retail in Classic, or even worse they want mobs in casual content to keep scaling up with the players gear (assuming they repeat this adjustment with every tier). Both of these are changes to try in SoM, not the actual "Classic" release.

And on a tangent to all that, I still haven't seen any updates from Blizzard in regards to the effect all these loot changes will have to the pvp gearing and items.

[Kralljin]

But no, they want Mythic (not plus, yet) from retail in Classic, or even worse they want mobs in casual content to keep scaling up with the players gear (assuming they repeat this adjustment with every tier). Both of these are changes to try in SoM, not the actual "Classic" release.

As far as i understood the system, you just choose a higher difficulty that activates within the dungeon, rather than the dungeon itself being tuned up.

What you're referencing is done in M+, so they don't have to update the multipliers with every season but i don't see that necessary here (and i doubt any difficulty where the loot doesn't get buffed is affected by this), because any returning player are still supposed to start at regular heroics with Ilvl 200 and then work itself up.

And on a tangent to all that, I still haven't seen any updates from Blizzard in regards to the effect all these loot changes will have to the pvp gearing and items.

I don't see how this is necessary outside of Ulduar, that's the only loot that actually gets changed.

If you're interested in PvP, it's the same story as in TBC.
You hit cap.
Get your face kicked in with fresh 80's gear.
You buy yourself decent enough gear with honor to do the facekicking yourself.

Of course, classes that don't care about wearing that much resilience can also tap in PvE gearing, but that's another story.
I don't think that for PvP'ers, even 245 gear from dungeons will outperform what you can buy for honor in S8, at least if those dungeons are not completely undertuned, but even then PvP gear will generally outperform PvE gear, because Resilience is pretty strong in Wrath.

One cannot outrule it, but even there you can just make the Arena gear from previous Season available for honor exclusively, rather than this hybrid of Arena points and Honor as it was done in later Wrath season.

[Relapses]

I disagree. They could do that very easily while staying "within the spirit of Classic" by:

1) Increasing the number of emblems dropping
2) Reducing the prices on the vendor (and add one if there wasn't for that patch)
3) Adding on the vendor some of/all the extra items

And there you have it. A system that was already in Wrath with changes to achieve what you say. But no, they want Mythic (not plus, yet) from retail in Classic, or even worse they want mobs in casual content to keep scaling up with the players gear (assuming they repeat this adjustment with every tier). Both of these are changes to try in SoM, not the actual "Classic" release.

And on a tangent to all that, I still haven't seen any updates from Blizzard in regards to the effect all these loot changes will have to the pvp gearing and items.

If they'd done it this way it would still take time to grind up a gear set. Importantly, one of the best ways to farm badges is still to do raids. The Heroic+ architecture is designed to give players a way to gear up for Ulduar without feeling compelled to step into raids. It'll also greatly reduce the amount of time it'll take said player to become Ulduar-ready. I presume Blizzard is aware that without things like attunements in the game that the number of old-content raids is going to dry up significantly once Ulduar is released so this is mainly there as an alternative gear path for players who are planning to wait all the way til T8 before they decide to come back.

[mercutiouk]

This is genuinely a gift. Those not realising the positives aren't playing currently.

If they'd done it this way it would still take time to grind up a gear set. Importantly, one of the best ways to farm badges is still to do raids. The Heroic+ architecture is designed to give players a way to gear up for Ulduar without feeling compelled to step into raids. It'll also greatly reduce the amount of time it'll take said player to become Ulduar-ready. I presume Blizzard is aware that without things like attunements in the game that the number of old-content raids is going to dry up significantly once Ulduar is released so this mainly there as an alternative gear path for players who are planning to wait all the way til T8 before they decide to come back.

Assuming they keep this going as a thing too - there's less issue with burnout and guilds being split between wanting to do "harder" more current content and needing to gear ppl in old raids to adequate levels.
Alts can be got CURRENT raid ready in sod all time too.
It's a HUGE gift to pretty much anyone interested in raiding.

[Belloc]

The Ulduar HMs dropped loot that was worse than ToC Normal. If your guild was being held back in Ulduar HMs because you didn't have gear from the next Tier then... you probably weren't the intended audience for Ulduar HMs in the first place.

Not everyone is a hardcore end-game raider. Some guilds and raid groups enjoyed going back to old content to finish out the Glory achievements. For my part, I had the top 10-man on my server, but my 25-man was only capable of a couple hardmodes. We merged with another high-end 10-man during TOGC and went back and finished everything shortly before we took the lead in TOGC, as well.