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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Lochton View Post
    Bit brutal example for something that it so simple?


    Garrison would like to say hello, you know, the personal phased area which you can invite players and they'll see your version instead of their own?


    Ask ALL the other bloody MMORPGs with housing, the majority don't even support RP realms (AA, and FFXIV for example). What do they do? They make a place for themselves, they style it how they want, they decorate, they use features within, and they stay with friends to chat and socialize.


    Obviously not? Even Blizzard admits that the Garrison isn't really housing. Housing shouldn't be connected as much as the Garrison was to the point where it is forced.


    For you, maybe, for others, not? And if it is dead for you, then gloriously you don't have to care about it in the first place for you shouldn't be seeing it unless you seek it out, meanwhile, for others, it'll change a whole aspect of the game.


    Man, I can't sell it to you because you don't even know what it should be doing. WoW should be doing fine with or without housing. Housing shouldn't be connected to the world but the world should be able to draw in for the housing (Professions, achievements, vendors, art assets, development, deployment, and progression of the engine). The main problem opposing people have to housing is that they desperately want it to be something to do with the content to the point they expect it to be another Garrison, which was a flop and shrugged off as a failed attempt at housing.

    Housing isn't needed for the game to go forward, housing is wanted by players to make more of the world they call home. Mythic raiding wasn't needed for the game to go forward, and neither were M+, or Pet Battles, but things develop, that is what progression is about and now another group of people would like something directed at them instead since the other minorities are being spoon-fed.

    Some people want to see the RP grow in MMORPG.
    It was bit brutal example, intentionally but the point still stands. Just because other games have it doesn't automatically make it a success in wow and also doesn't mean its a good fit for wow either.

    I understand the concept of housing, i really do lol... I also get why some people like to make the comparison to transmog being such a huge success.

    Blizzard have admitted garrison was their housing attempt, they have also admitted they had to cut "half" of it due to development resources.

    I think thats bit unfair to say just because it isn't targeted for me "personally", I shouldn't have an opinion about it?
    You also should be wanting to have housing so good people like me gets turned around and actually finds it interesting. Which i doubt unless you tie actual incentives too it but yeh.
    Developing housing means resources will be pulled from somewhere else, making the parts I do enjoy, worse.
    It's not really a small undertaking to do.

    If you can't sell me the idea, why do you think its a good idea? And if you can't explain what it should be doing, why would anyone care about it?
    You're gonna have to "lure" the masses with it for blizzard to spend resources on it, specially if you want to carry it forward in coming expansions.

    "The personal phased area" was instanced and was an instance in every technical sense, thats why when instance servers went down, you could not access your garrison, i know it's sorta arguing semantics but you did say I was wrong, which I'm not.

    Which brings me back to the original point, why do you think housing would be different from garrisons in that aspect?
    Lets remove all the incentives that came with it (professions, transmog, the invasions yadi yadi) and make it purely cosmetic.
    What is the point? For you to decorate a house/home that pretty much nobody except yourself will see? In an mmo? Sure, you can invite people over (like the garrison) and show it off, maybe have a tea party or w/e... But for how long do you think that holds interest among the general playerbase?
    Why I keep saying its a bad in an mmo is because it takes you out of the world, even the main city hubs and hides you and everyone else there. As you say, you could remove everything in there that made us set HS there but that would also make it pretty redundant and dead on arrival for the large majority.

    How often would you yourself visits friends house to.....well...look at it??
    At least with transmog its something everyone always see's you wear regardless of activity.
    And if there's no incentive other than cosmetics, why would people do it in say patch 10.2?
    And if nobody really cares for it, why was it a good investment far as developer resources are concerned?
    Who are these players that wants it? The vocal minority on mmo champ?

    I do accept the last argument, which is fine, everyone plays the game for their reasons and if RP is what they like, they shouldn't be denied it... But in the same breath, they shouldn't deny others a better game either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Considering where those competitors are...*looks below* it wasn't much of a drop.
    That wasn't really the point though and not sure if it matters how steep the cliff are? You're still jumping off a cliff solely because your friends jumped? :P
    Last edited by tomten; 2022-10-04 at 11:09 PM.

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Again, you keep saying this nonsese while continue to ignore "the budget" THey do not have the infinte resources you think they have no matter how much you part at over and over again.
    They have to adhere to the budget and there is no room to do player housing with out almost eating the entire budget. But hey, you want to continue with the stawman's so you aren't going to try to get that concept.
    Yeah your right, what was I thinking...

    They are only a billion dollar company... I'm sure they are on the verge of bankruptcy. Better be careful what we ask for, we don't want Blizz to fold up and leave town.

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by pahbi View Post
    Yeah your right, what was I thinking... They are only a billion dollar company... I'm sure they are on the verge of bankruptcy. Better be careful what we ask for, we don't want Blizz to fold up and leave town.
    And I'm sure players will leave the game too over lack of housing../s

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by pahbi View Post
    Yeah your right, what was I thinking...

    They are only a billion dollar company... I'm sure they are on the verge of bankruptcy. Better be careful what we ask for, we don't want Blizz to fold up and leave town.
    Repeating the same tired strawman doesn't make it any thing less than one. The fact that you keep repeating it tells me you don't want a discussion, but just want to repeat the same nonsense because you have no understanding of how a business works. They do not have infinite resources no matter how many times you repeat that strawman.

  5. #245
    The Undying Lochton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    And I'm sure players will leave the game too over lack of housing../s
    More would most likely return due to housing. I know a lot who are playing FFXIV only because of housing, I was one of them.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by tomten View Post
    And if you can't explain what it should be doing, why would anyone care about it?
    Why do many people care about it in the mmorpgs that have it, and why would they not in wow ?

    Quote Originally Posted by tomten View Post
    Which brings me back to the original point, why do you think housing would be different from garrisons in that aspect?
    Because you can do so much better than garrison : create a new type of objects call "furnitures" than you can put in your house, like a table, a portrait, a wall etc. And I'm talking about really placing it, like moving it everywhere you want, pixel-perfect, not on a few predefined places like garrisons.
    Then make good use of this new type of object : make them available as crafting recipes (leatherworkers could for example craft leather stand that you could then palce wherever you want in your house to turn it into some kind of hunter den). And make some being looted through bosses, that could make more incentives to run hard difficulties. Want this super cool dragon-looking statue to place in your house and flex on your friends ? Well, better run the new raid in mythic because that's the only place it drops.

    And there you go, you have pve and pvp incentives through housing.

    Quote Originally Posted by tomten View Post
    What is the point? For you to decorate a house/home that pretty much nobody except yourself will see? In an mmo? Sure, you can invite people over (like the garrison) and show it off, maybe have a tea party or w/e... But for how long do you think that holds interest among the general playerbase?
    Basing my reflexion on the experiences of many other mmorpgs, I'd say quit a long time, especially when new furnitures and deocrations could be added over time.
    MMO Champs :

  7. #247

    Player Housing optional

    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    I don't think garrisons are really comparable. When people tend to ask for player housing they usually want it as a cosmetic-only system that they can pursue at their own leisure. Garrisons were essentially tied to player power in WoD and thus was a mandatory grind for most players.
    Exactly, like pet battles. It's an optional component to the game.

  8. #248
    They simply need to do it same way it's done in that other game, that's all.

    And most importantly make it purely and only cosmetical 100% otherwise "OMUHGAD it's feeling MANDATORY reee".
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    They simply need to do it same way it's done in that other game, that's all.

    And most importantly make it purely and only cosmetical 100% otherwise "OMUHGAD it's feeling MANDATORY reee".
    Well I've yet to see a single game do it properly except games which gameplays revolves around it (animal crossing, sims, etc.)

  10. #250
    people still crying for this useless feature?

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by uncl55 View Post
    people still crying for this useless feature?
    Videogames themselves are useless.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Skildar View Post
    Well I've yet to see a single game do it properly except games which gameplays revolves around it (animal crossing, sims, etc.)
    Plenty games did it well. Heck, there are games that did everything shit except this like Wildstar where housing was stellar, while the game was all kinds of bad.
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by Aboostani View Post
    First, it has to be implemented in the subtlest of ways.

    - Ponder an inn in a major city, ThunderBluff, Darnassus.
    - Now, for example Stormwind. Imagine simply walking upstairs into a phased room. And that's it.
    - Outside a window, you can see players on the patio below. But, all it is is a room.
    - The player literally enters a small room with the design of that major city.
    - Adjust the phasing so a Night Elf of Darnassus could have a view of the Commons area in Ironforge.
    - The player can have their own book shelfs which is a visual for achievements, they can actually click on a bed to sleep on for resting experience.
    - They can have banners on the wall, rugs, etc.
    - This could affect many elements of the game: guilds, auction house, mailing.
    - armor rack (affecting gear durability)

    - Unlike (or like) garrisons, there is no customization of the building itself. That's inheritant to the city. No new textures, just those of the city.
    - In this way, they're not isolating.
    - It would bring races to their inheritent cities, also remember its phased.
    - Most importantly, is that its a subtle addition.
    - Less is more. Adding small features at the start and eventually adding some more.
    - It could work as an integral part of the game if done right but not overdone.
    - Not isolating players but expanding this always thought about place thats never been implemented and needs to the right way.
    also he is a good fact
    just because you had an idea doesn't mean you have to share it online
    makes you look desperate and have no friends

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    They simply need to do it same way it's done in that other game, that's all.

    And most importantly make it purely and only cosmetical 100% otherwise "OMUHGAD it's feeling MANDATORY reee".
    Indeed.....it can be said about everything - because according to this site, everything in WoW sucks one way or another and the solution is "they have to do it like in game X"

    Too bad some of thoose games have even already been shut down....maybe they did a feature really well for some people, but overall it just didn't interest enough folks or just weren't a strong enough feature to keep ppl playing.

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Skildar View Post
    Well I've yet to see a single game do it properly except games which gameplays revolves around it (animal crossing, sims, etc.)
    I liked both Wildstar and Rift implementation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uncl55 View Post
    people still crying for this useless feature?
    Because games are useful... That is why we play them.

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Plenty games did it well. Heck, there are games that did everything shit except this like Wildstar where housing was stellar, while the game was all kinds of bad.
    That's not the stellar argument you think it is

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Loveliest View Post
    I liked both Wildstar and Rift implementation.

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    Because games are useful... That is why we play them.
    Except for... Wildstar and Rift are dead games. So much for housing being some sustainable feature.

  18. #258
    I am Murloc! Mister K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterymask View Post
    That's not the stellar argument you think it is
    Why? Plenty of games which have 1 game system that works really well, hence why originally WoW copied many aspects that worked well in order to create WoW.
    -K

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    They simply need to do it same way it's done in that other game, that's all.

    And most importantly make it purely and only cosmetical 100% otherwise "OMUHGAD it's feeling MANDATORY reee".
    What game would that be? It isn't purely cosmetic in FFXIV.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister K View Post
    Why? Plenty of games which have 1 game system that works really well, hence why originally WoW copied many aspects that worked well in order to create WoW.
    Because a good feature in a dead game means it's very hard to gauge if that system was worth the effort at all. Maybe the games would've survived if that development time was spent elsewhere.

  20. #260
    I am Murloc! Mister K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    What game would that be? It isn't purely cosmetic in FFXIV.

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    Because a good feature in a dead game means it's very hard to gauge if that system was worth the effort at all. Maybe the games would've survived if that development time was spent elsewhere.
    But at that point there are core issues with the game outside of that feature. You can gather metrics fairly easily to see if that feature is good. Yes you are right, for those specific failed games sure, WoW is not that. It's like adding new classes. We do not need more, we need better game features and raiding/dungeon content.
    -K

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