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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Lochton View Post
    While WoW does suffer from DDoS, so do almost all other MMOs which is just about the general load and size of the attack. WoW just experience more DDoS due to well, its obvious position and age. And we can agree on the lack of dynamic use but that is what is the problem with making housing in WoW anyways that can be fixed as well, look at LOTRO, they just use item hooks, just like SWTOR does.
    I mean, sometimes DDOS attacks are caused by their own design decisions, as it happened with oQueue. So, they try to avoid designs, that can possibly cause DDOS. And housing is obvious problem. There will always be guys, who will place 100500 items at their home just for lulz and then log in/out many times on alts and cause massive network/DB/storage load as result.

    What's wrong with direction of development? Inclusivity is priceless - race change for free!

  2. #82
    It should not have mail, AH etc. It should be purely for looks. This is why garrisons are hated, they were self sufficient and kept the player in.

  3. #83
    The Undying Lochton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    I mean, sometimes DDOS attacks are caused by their own design decisions, as it happened with oQueue. So, they try to avoid designs, that can possibly cause DDOS. And housing is obvious problem. There will always be guys, who will place 100500 items at their home just for lulz and then log in/out to cause massive network/DB/storage load.
    That is why you do like all housing in all MMOs, you put a restriction on items to be placed? Some games restrict depending on the level of the house, others on the level of your housing, and some by reputation. Also why there should be a modular building selection, the only things dynamic are furniture, fixtures, lights, etc.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Loveliest View Post
    It should not have mail, AH etc. It should be purely for looks. This is why garrisons are hated, they were self sufficient and kept the player in.
    Mail is fine. Nowadays you can get your mail wherever you want if you use it so much. But I agree with the Auction House, that shouldn't be there, just like there shouldn't be any quests that demand the use of it, there should be quests rewarding for it (which is a different thing). My view is that the world should be able to reward the housing but the housing should not be tied to the world. No mission table, no daily quests, no world quests, no auction, no trade chat (though, that should be able to be unlocked if you have exalted with all the original races/cities). Of course, quests would be needed within but there shouldn't really be a demand for them, and the reward should only be for the housing, even if it is currency, then you make some special property resource or something.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  4. #84
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lochton View Post
    Not talking about building the house, was talking about selecting a house for the plot in a phase. Not touched ESO in years, so, they run the same system as LOTRO then? Prebuilt housing to claim, do they use item hooks in it or?
    Nah, free placement. They also have some "houses" that are just open spaces and some crazy people have built houses in them from scratch but tbh there isn't really adequate support for that and it's really a labor of love on their part.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Nah, free placement.
    Ah, so a little more advanced than LOTRO and SWTOR.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    They also have some "houses" that are just open spaces and some crazy people have built houses in them from scratch but tbh there isn't really adequate support for that and it's really a labor of love on their part.
    Well, have you seen FFXIV's housing? The developers don't want to admit they made a mistake about some items for making second floors/lower ceilings, so people are glitching the housing system like mad to try and make what they like to see. I've done so myself, honestly, played FFXIV for a long time but in the end, I only stuck around because of the housing even though I was missing WoW.

    Their UI is not a good thing to follow, and I don't think WoW would serve well with their system. As mentioned earlier, I could see WoW going LOTRO's way, prebuilt selection of houses with item hooks but having to overlap with phasing as ESO with their limited system.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Almost everything in Wow is built around phasing, i.e. just showing/hiding pre-built things, like NPCs and buildings. Nothing is truly dynamic in Wow. And show/hide - is just 1 bit of data. Dunno why it happens, cuz other game developers aren't affected by this problem, but Blizzard constantly struggle with so called DDOS attacks, i.e. high server loads, such as network/DB/storage loads. That's why they don't like big data sets. And housing obviously requires lots of data. At least ID + transformation matrix per item.
    Yeah and at the same time they have transmogs, mounts, pet battle and achievement that collects and keeps insane amounts of data.

    And maybe you mean layering since its used to battle overcrowding in areas, phasing is a tool to change player's perception of a outdoor areas of World of Warcraft, based on the player's accomplishments or quest progress, so it actually stores more data then normal.

    And DDOS attacks dont really care how much or little data you have stored.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Lochton View Post
    That is why you do like all housing in all MMOs, you put a restriction on items to be placed? Some games restrict depending on the level of the house, others on the level of your housing, and some by reputation. Also why there should be a modular building selection, the only things dynamic are furniture, fixtures, lights, etc.
    But even with all restrictions that feature will still suffer from scalability problems. At some point majority of playerbase will have all levels, reputations, etc. And in order to make this feature interesting in long term, Blizzard will have to extend it with time.

    What's wrong with direction of development? Inclusivity is priceless - race change for free!

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Aboostani View Post
    First, it has to be implemented in the subtlest of ways.

    - Ponder an inn in a major city, ThunderBluff, Darnassus.
    - Now, for example Stormwind. Imagine simply walking upstairs into a phased room. And that's it.
    - Outside a window, you can see players on the patio below. But, all it is is a room.
    - The player literally enters a small room with the design of that major city.
    - Adjust the phasing so a Night Elf of Darnassus could have a view of the Commons area in Ironforge.
    - The player can have their own book shelfs which is a visual for achievements, they can actually click on a bed to sleep on for resting experience.
    - They can have banners on the wall, rugs, etc.
    - This could affect many elements of the game: guilds, auction house, mailing.
    - armor rack (affecting gear durability)

    - Unlike (or like) garrisons, there is no customization of the building itself. That's inheritant to the city. No new textures, just those of the city.
    - In this way, they're not isolating.
    - It would bring races to their inheritent cities, also remember its phased.
    - Most importantly, is that its a subtle addition.
    - Less is more. Adding small features at the start and eventually adding some more.
    - It could work as an integral part of the game if done right but not overdone.
    - Not isolating players but expanding this always thought about place thats never been implemented and needs to the right way.
    How to do housing -

    If Blizzard forecasts either of the following:
    1)Community activity increases.
    2)People stays and pays for more.

    Then they would implement housing, without you even asking for it.
    It would be on such scale - that people would have thier own Orgrimmar, and become thier own Warchief - and WoW would replace The Sims(whatever that generates the money).

    They have the data, they know thier audiance, they know how much people plays and what activity they spend time on.
    There is a reason for, why we don't have housing - and not because they can't think for themselfs.
    Last edited by HansOlo; 2022-09-27 at 10:12 AM.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lochton View Post
    Their UI is not a good thing to follow, and I don't think WoW would serve well with their system. As mentioned earlier, I could see WoW going LOTRO's way, prebuilt selection of houses with item hooks but having to overlap with phasing as ESO with their limited system.
    Yeah I do not see Blizzard doing something that gives you a lot of freedom. If there is one thing consistent across their games is that they want to control how their games are experienced. Pre build houses with item hooks is indeed probably the best we can expect.

    People in ESO do crazy things btw. One of the things missing as available furnishing is staircases so a lot of times we see people create stairs with planks, marble blocks, even small furniture (that is stucked on each other so they can have carved wood elements in the staircase). You can tilt things so you can create banisters even.
    They do item limits depending on house's size category, give people a free room in an inn and then you have things from small houses to some absolutely crazy manors (e.g. there is an Argonian manor that is an entire three levelzigurat with an adjoining lake in your property and the bottom level with windows showing underwater). This is why I think prebuild is the way to go at least to begin with (and then you could consider giving people open spaces to build their own down the line once you optimise the UI), it will allow for far more impressive housing than they can give the building blocks for.
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2022-09-27 at 10:10 AM.

  10. #90
    The Undying Lochton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    But even with all restrictions that feature will still suffer from scalability problems. At some point majority of playerbase will have all levels, reputations, etc. And in order to make this feature interesting in long term, Blizzard will have to extend it with time.
    But the restrictions shouldn't be moved? It should just cap, done. Even in a long time frame, a fixed cap, items of course can be added to be claimed in the future but what is put into the player housing should not exceed a certain number. The feature itself will be interesting to the ones who want it, and they'll design, and redesign it within the boundaries, we see it in all other games with housing, so WoW can set boundaries too. The only thing that needs to extend is the availability of asset design for people to decorate after their race/faction/theme.

    Of course, ad certain deadlines to the housing, disabling it if an account has been banned. Resetting the housing (sending all items to the mailbox) if players faction change, or server change.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Yeah I do not see Blizzard doing something that gives you a lot of freedom. If there is one thing consistent across their games is that they want to control how their games are experienced. Pre build houses with item hooks is indeed probably the best we can expect.
    Aye, most likely an option but would also be a good and welcomed start.

    And to the ones against housing, it should basically just be a simple answer, don't do it?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    People in ESO do crazy things btw. One of the things missing as available furnishing is staircases so a lot of times we see people create stairs with planks, marble blocks, even small furniture (that is stucked on each other so they can have carved wood elements in the staircase). You can tilt things so you can create banisters even.
    They do item limits depending on house's size category, give people a free room in an inn and then you have things from small houses to some absolutely crazy manors (e.g. there is an Argonian manor that is an entire three levelzigurat with an adjoining lake in your property and the bottom level with windows showing underwater). This is why I think prebuild is the way to go at least to begin with (and then you could consider giving people open spaces to build their own down the line once you optimise the UI), it will allow for far more impressive housing than they can give the building blocks for.
    Yeah, I can imagine. Housing brings a whole new drive to some people. Roleplayers or not, some find a big hobby and relaxation in building their own place. It is a bit the same in FFXIV with certain things like making windows, second floors, or using items to as you mentioned, create stairs.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Hotmail View Post
    I've never seen the point of player housing.

    Seems pointless having a home in game that only I can see

    To Americans: This November, vote like your life depends on it, because it does.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lochton View Post
    Yeah, I can imagine. Housing brings a whole new drive to some people. Roleplayers or not, some find a big hobby and relaxation in building their own place. It is a bit the same in FFXIV with certain things like making windows, second floors, or using items to as you mentioned, create stairs.
    One thing I'd love would be to have more than just houses, not just in WoW but in ESO or other similar games. It's crazy to me that they've never given us a tavern in ESO; most of my early WoW RP was tavern RP. I did get a castle with its own church in ESO (three level castle, large courtyard, a moat and a church with a large basement that also serves as a dock and is connected by tunnel to the castle) and it's very fun for RP.

    Really the amount of money Blizzard would make on token sales if we suddenly had fantasy manors going for a couple million released twice a year would be insane.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Seems pointless having a home in game that only I can see
    I am not surprised you have no friends to invite over.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I am not surprised you have no friends to invite over.
    Seriously - you want to know how annoying it after the first few times - going over to an imaginary house.

    Been there done that - New World.

    To Americans: This November, vote like your life depends on it, because it does.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Seriously - you want to know how annoying it after the first few times - going over to an imaginary house.

    Been there done that - New World.
    I mean if you first experienced that in New World, you've barely done that.

  15. #95
    The Undying Lochton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Seems pointless having a home in game that only I can see
    Well, to you, maybe, to thousands of others, a different view. It gives another layer to a place some call a second home

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    One thing I'd love would be to have more than just houses, not just in WoW but in ESO or other similar games. It's crazy to me that they've never given us a tavern in ESO; most of my early WoW RP was tavern RP. I did get a castle with its own church in ESO (three level castle, large courtyard, a moat and a church with a large basement that also serves as a dock and is connected by tunnel to the castle) and it's very fun for RP.
    This is where I fell in love with ArcheAge when it launched, the developers were dicks so they didn't believe RP'ers would need a server to gather, so we picked one. And in the early days before the flood of bots, you had player-run taverns for all to come to visit (ArcheAge housing is set in the open world, so all can come by if they wanted). Tavern RP can be nice but FFXIV took it one step further and shat on it as players made nightclubs and *** clubs (those luckily got banned). There are still some going on here and there but it is people finding the base they can in a limited location.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Really the amount of money Blizzard would make on token sales if we suddenly had fantasy manors going for a couple million released twice a year would be insane.
    Well, could be cool to have limited events for a special selection of housing and for the rest of the year have a basic selection of buildings you can choose from.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Seriously - you want to know how annoying it after the first few times - going over to an imaginary house.

    Been there done that - New World.
    Yeah, but New World's housing was shit as well. Rules have loosened a bit now but it was connected to a need to have it. It was a lighter version of Garrison for me.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I mean if you first experienced that in New World
    I have - a few hundred hours

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    , you've barely done that.
    I have done that, got boring after a few goes.


    But then again - you would have known all that if you'd read the stuff I wrote.

    To Americans: This November, vote like your life depends on it, because it does.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Lochton View Post
    Yeah, but New World's housing was shit as well. Rules have loosened a bit now but it was connected to a need to have it. It was a lighter version of Garrison for me.
    I don't understand how - out of so many attempts in the industry - that WoW would have the perfect iteration of housing?

    It's not going to happend - they would had implemented long before you asked for it otherwise.

  18. #98
    The Undying Lochton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    I don't understand how - out of so many attempts in the industry - that WoW would have the perfect iteration of housing?

    It's not going to happend - they would had implemented long before you asked for it otherwise.
    They don't have the perfect iteration, the closest to perfect was.. Wildstar (Unbound, not forced, no connection to world content, personal instance, all yours) or ArcheAge? (Unbound, almost not forced (Though if you were heavy weight, then you needed housing), spot open in the world, all yours to show and brag).

    As for Blizzard, their journey started about 10 years and a week or so ago, and forward, then went to a halt, and we've heard nothing more. They have most likely realized what the minimum demand if (item hooks) and the maximum demand is (free place) and realized that they weren't even near yet. Garrisons only practiced personal phasing and basic item hooks, they need a lot more for it.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Lochton View Post
    But the restrictions shouldn't be moved? It should just cap, done. Even in a long time frame, a fixed cap, items of course can be added to be claimed in the future but what is put into the player housing should not exceed a certain number. The feature itself will be interesting to the ones who want it, and they'll design, and redesign it within the boundaries, we see it in all other games with housing, so WoW can set boundaries too. The only thing that needs to extend is the availability of asset design for people to decorate after their race/faction/theme.

    Of course, ad certain deadlines to the housing, disabling it if an account has been banned. Resetting the housing (sending all items to the mailbox) if players faction change, or server change.
    Even with fixed restrictions Blizzard will still have to reserve storage for <max items> * <50 characters> * <number of B.net accounts>. Or at least for all existing characters. Alts have their pros and cons. They provide optional content, yeah. But at the same time everything that isn't account-wide - causes ineffective storage bloat.

    What's wrong with direction of development? Inclusivity is priceless - race change for free!

  20. #100
    The Undying Lochton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Even with fixed restrictions Blizzard will still have to reserve storage for <max items> * <50 characters> * <number of B.net accounts>. Or at least for all existing characters. Alts have their pros and cons. They provide optional content, yeah. But at the same time everything that isn't account-wide - causes ineffective storage bloat.
    Well, restrictions should be a blanket, nothing more there, and if people want multiple, they are welcome to, their time, their dime. Not everything should be account wide? I'd hate to step into an Alliance-themed house with my Orc, calling it "home"?

    WoW is even better seated now to start speculating housing because it doesn't have a flood of players like it used to.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

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