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  1. #1

    Here's how to do player housing

    First, it has to be implemented in the subtlest of ways.

    - Ponder an inn in a major city, ThunderBluff, Darnassus.
    - Now, for example Stormwind. Imagine simply walking upstairs into a phased room. And that's it.
    - Outside a window, you can see players on the patio below. But, all it is is a room.
    - The player literally enters a small room with the design of that major city.
    - Adjust the phasing so a Night Elf of Darnassus could have a view of the Commons area in Ironforge.
    - The player can have their own book shelfs which is a visual for achievements, they can actually click on a bed to sleep on for resting experience.
    - They can have banners on the wall, rugs, etc.
    - This could affect many elements of the game: guilds, auction house, mailing.
    - armor rack (affecting gear durability)

    - Unlike (or like) garrisons, there is no customization of the building itself. That's inheritant to the city. No new textures, just those of the city.
    - In this way, they're not isolating.
    - It would bring races to their inheritent cities, also remember its phased.
    - Most importantly, is that its a subtle addition.
    - Less is more. Adding small features at the start and eventually adding some more.
    - It could work as an integral part of the game if done right but not overdone.
    - Not isolating players but expanding this always thought about place thats never been implemented and needs to the right way.

  2. #2
    That's just it -- the "right way" to add housing is going to vary tremendously from player to player. I can't see a one-size-fits-all approach that doesn't ultimately end up feeling very similar to Garrisons.
    Last edited by Relapses; 2022-09-23 at 05:24 AM. Reason: a word

  3. #3
    Elemental Lord callipygoustp's Avatar
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    The only way to do player housing would result in it feeling like Garrisons?

    Bullshit

  4. #4
    How Blizzard is going to do it if they decide to

    -cost gold to have fully instanced
    -some furniture can be gotten in-game most of it will be on the shop
    -players on the forums bitch about how greedy blizzard is
    -many players still spend a fortune on said shop
    -no more raid tier cause it's all about housing bay bee!

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterymask View Post
    How Blizzard is going to do it if they decide to

    -cost gold to have fully instanced
    -some furniture can be gotten in-game most of it will be on the shop
    -players on the forums bitch about how greedy blizzard is
    -many players still spend a fortune on said shop
    -no more raid tier cause it's all about housing bay bee!
    I mean, this is half of FFXIV's monetization so yeah. There's definitely a potential financial drive for a feature like this. I'd hope they wouldn't go that route but in this capitalist hellscape we call God's year two-thousand-and-twenty-two I don't see it playing out any other way.

  6. #6
    ffiv does it just fine with guild housing. instanced rooms in a house in an instanced section of a capital city. You can customize it the way you see fit, and people can come visit you and check out your setups. Everything these forums suggests for WoW, ff already does better. Blizz really needs to start stealing designs from games again instead of coming up with the dumb-fuckery that's been force fed to the player base for the last few expansions.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    I mean, this is half of FFXIV's monetization so yeah. There's definitely a potential financial drive for a feature like this. I'd hope they wouldn't go that route but in this capitalist hellscape we call God's year two-thousand-and-twenty-two I don't see it playing out any other way.
    capitalist hellscape? ffs there's one in every thread isn't there

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinpachi View Post
    capitalist hellscape? ffs there's one in every thread isn't there
    When one of the main benefits of a feature you're pushing is, "think of all the ways you can rape your customers' wallets!" there might be a slight issue with how we've normalized predatory monetization habits from game companies.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinpachi View Post
    ffiv does it just fine with guild housing. instanced rooms in a house in an instanced section of a capital city. You can customize it the way you see fit, and people can come visit you and check out your setups. Everything these forums suggests for WoW, ff already does better. Blizz really needs to start stealing designs from games again instead of coming up with the dumb-fuckery that's been force fed to the player base for the last few expansions.
    Agreed. I'd even go with them stealing Runescape's player housing concept from 20 years ago. I loved it.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
    ~ Daryl Davis

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    When one of the main benefits of a feature you're pushing is, "think of all the ways you can rape your customers' wallets!" there might be a slight issue with how we've normalized predatory monetization habits from game companies.
    if you hate the powerful raiding the lower classes wallets, youd hate all the other systems. in other systems, they do it too, only 1000x worse.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  10. #10
    With blizzards current engine is to do it like Lord of the Rings Online. Several instanced zones with many levels of houses and special guild houses. The exterior has designated slots for large and small decorations. The interior has the same but some decorations have special functions like crafting tables and such.

    Itd be easy and would promote grinding decoration items from raids such as sindragosas head to plop outside as a trophy.

  11. #11
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    That's just it -- the "right way" to add housing is going to vary tremendously from player to player. I can't see a one-size-fits all approach that doesn't ultimately end up feeling very similar to Garrisons.
    Garrisons are this buzzword that covers everything wrong about Warlords. My take on that is that the idea of garrisons and base-building is fine. Base-building games tend to do well. But Blizzard would need to take the frame of garrisons and create an actual base-building game around them. Take the best parts of housing from other games, the best parts of base building, add some city building for flavor, make it so it has nothing to do with the raiding and dungeon reward loop, build out the follower technology so that the player can go out with them and do something (probably in a code wrapper that would look like a scenario) and go from there.

    That said,

    The problem of course is that Blizzard could have done that the first time around or iterated on the idea going forward. They have done none of that because they prefer for expansions to work like stand-alone games. And then they wonder why people miss the MMO aspect of a world and lore that means anything. The ideas behind garrisons, followers, scenarios and the rest are fine. The execution was/is abysmal and if I'm being honest it's probably for the best that they won't do these things because there's no evidence any longer that they can do them better. The game will continue to be a raiding/dungeon game that serves about 10% of their potential customer base and features as their best content stuff that hardly anyone that isn't a top 10 guild can even approach with any hope of success. This doesn't need to be something for every customer. It simply needs to be flexible enough that many can find something in it worth the time spent on it. Rewards should go toward building a better base, improving followers, profession hubs, etc.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2022-09-23 at 01:16 AM.
    Two rules for living: "Don't go around hurting each other. Try to understand things." — William Least Heat-Moon (Blue Highways)

  12. #12
    you arent getting player housing. the game is worse than any time in its history. if they implement player housing instead of using those resources to better the game, people will leave. a lot of people will leave. id say more people leave than will sign up monthly to play. it would hurt the game more than benefit it.

  13. #13
    I've never seen the point of player housing. I feel right at home in my Auction House-Bank-Mailbox circle, and anywhere that lacks those features can't really feel like a home.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    This doesn't need to be something for every customer. It simply needs to be flexible enough that many can find something in it worth the time spent on it. Rewards should go toward building a better base, improving followers, profession hubs, etc.
    I suppose; the problem that Blizzard has with any of these types of features is that it seems like if it requires a lot of development time they need it to be engaged with. That's why Garrisons were central to WoD's storyline. You literally couldn't continue the story if you didn't construct a Garrison. (Same thing happened with Torghast in SL.)

    Perhaps if they can pick apart the bones of what they used to develop Garrisons and make something less... expansion-defining, I'd say go for it. But I'm skeptical such an endeavor is ultimately worth it in the end.

  15. #15
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    I'd argue that WildStar already figured it out... back whenever it was that WildStar was around. Every player got their own instanced plot of land to build on, for free. I don't know how extensive it was, since I ended up getting too busy to play shortly after I started playing and WildStar was basically DOA when I finally had time again, but the concept is solid.

    I think player housing, transmog/glamors, etc is something that any MMO-type game should focus heavily on. Look at how much time, money, and effort goes into XIV's transmog and housing (not just by/to Square-Enix, but hobbyist websites that host resources and image albums, and so on) to see exactly why it's the sort of thing that keeps people invested.

    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Garrisons are this buzzword that covers everything wrong about Warlords. My take on that is that the idea of garrisons and base-building is fine. Base-building games tend to do well. But Blizzard would need to take the frame of garrisons and create an actual base-building game around them. Take the best parts of housing from other games, the best parts of base building, add some city building for flavor, make it so it has nothing to do with the raiding and dungeon reward loop, build out the follower technology so that the player can go out with them and do something (probably in a code wrapper that would look like a scenario) and go from there.

    That said,

    The problem of course is that Blizzard could have done that the first time around or iterated on the idea going forward. They have done none of that because they prefer for expansions to work like stand-alone games. And then they wonder why people miss the MMO aspect of a world and lore that means anything. The ideas behind garrisons, followers, scenarios and the rest are fine. The execution was/is abysmal and if I'm being honest it's probably for the best that they won't do these things because there's no evidence any longer that they can do them better. The game will continue to be a raiding/dungeon game that serves about 10% of their potential customer base and features as their best content stuff that hardly anyone that isn't a top 10 guild can even approach with any hope of success. This doesn't need to be something for every customer. It simply needs to be flexible enough that many can find something in it worth the time spent on it. Rewards should go toward building a better base, improving followers, profession hubs, etc.
    FFXIV's new adventure island or whatever is a good place to start. The most important aspect is that it's wholly divorced from other gameplay systems. Nothing you do on that island ties back into the other game systems - it doesn't generate crafting or gathering materials or benefits, it has nothing to do with raiding or PvP gameplay, etc. Even most of the stuff it produces is soulbound, so it's not even a path to AH income. It's something you do only for the sake of doing it, and that's the best way for such a system to be.

    The great irony, of course, is that Square-Enix decided to not allow players to place housing items anywhere on the island, despite the fact that their backwards scarcity-based housing system means that the majority of players will never get to access that aspect of gameplay.
    Last edited by Grinning Serpent; 2022-09-23 at 02:30 AM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Aboostani View Post
    First, it has to be implemented in the subtlest of ways.

    - Ponder an inn in a major city, ThunderBluff, Darnassus.
    - Now, for example Stormwind. Imagine simply walking upstairs into a phased room. And that's it.
    - Outside a window, you can see players on the patio below. But, all it is is a room.
    - The player literally enters a small room with the design of that major city.
    - Adjust the phasing so a Night Elf of Darnassus could have a view of the Commons area in Ironforge.
    - The player can have their own book shelfs which is a visual for achievements, they can actually click on a bed to sleep on for resting experience.
    - They can have banners on the wall, rugs, etc.
    - This could affect many elements of the game: guilds, auction house, mailing.
    - armor rack (affecting gear durability)

    - Unlike (or like) garrisons, there is no customization of the building itself. That's inheritant to the city. No new textures, just those of the city.
    - In this way, they're not isolating.
    - It would bring races to their inheritent cities, also remember its phased.
    - Most importantly, is that its a subtle addition.
    - Less is more. Adding small features at the start and eventually adding some more.
    - It could work as an integral part of the game if done right but not overdone.
    - Not isolating players but expanding this always thought about place thats never been implemented and needs to the right way.
    Blizzard use design excuses like "It's MMO - we don't want solo instanced content" (but make Torghast at the same time), but real truth is - problem is mostly technical. Their engine is just bad at handling dynamic geometry. What we had in Garrisons - was actually just phasing. I.e. it was pre-made geometry, that was shown/hidden. Not true dynamic geometry, like in Wildstar for example.

  17. #17
    I like the idea of using phasing to see the non-instanced world. It just needs to not show you the entrance where all sorts of people are apparently running to your door but not.

    And when it comes to the risk of isolating players, the way I see it solo content and multi-player content is complimentary. It's not one or the other. You start off by yourself at level one and sometimes you're in a quest area all by yourself on your own journey and then it's so cool to be surprised to run into someone else and have a common goal. Likewise you gain new power unique to the group setting and come back to the solo content stronger.

    When both the solo player content and multi-player content is good then the game is most immersive and meaningful I think because that's how we are IRL. Both actually feel more defined and meaningful when you have the opposite pov.
    Last edited by SaucyThighs; 2022-09-23 at 05:09 AM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by callipygoustp View Post
    The only way to do player housing would result in it feeling like Garrisons?

    Bullshit
    Back in WoD beta the garrison started less useful than it ended up in retail because players wanted the garrison to be more useful. Why have a garden if you could only harvest the plants if you're a herbalist? So they changed it that everyone can harvest them. Same with all other professions with only very minor bonuses for people who have the right profession. There's a drive for the developers and the players to make housing relevant because a lot of player want to be rewarded for the time they invested and would want to have some things be tied to housing instead of it being it's own thing with no important rewards.

    Players wanted garrisions to be relevant, blizzard made them relevant and then people complained that they're mandatory. It works in different games because they have a different community with different goals. People in WoW tend to be more competetive and want there to always be some kind of benefit and therefore would want to turn housing in something that in the end would feel like garrisons.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    When one of the main benefits of a feature you're pushing is, "think of all the ways you can rape your customers' wallets!" there might be a slight issue with how we've normalized predatory monetization habits from game companies.
    Not in the least. Buyer beware. It's ultimately on the end user to spend money or not. You have to go into this knowing first and foremost Blizzard is a publicly-traded company, so profit is its main directive, and all decisions will be based on whether they will make money for the shareholders. It's that simple. We have the option to pay/play, or not to. That's how they know if their decisions are correct. Nobody is a victim here.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinpachi View Post
    Not in the least. Buyer beware. It's ultimately on the end user to spend money or not. You have to go into this knowing first and foremost Blizzard is a publicly-traded company, so profit is its main directive, and all decisions will be based on whether they will make money for the shareholders. It's that simple. We have the option to pay/play, or not to. That's how they know if their decisions are correct. Nobody is a victim here.
    I don't recall where I ever implied otherwise. The post you quoted was an incredibly sarcastic dig at how we've desensitized ourselves to monetization so much that we're now pitching microtransactions as a benefit. If you can't see how that's maybe -- just maybe -- just a little bit bad then I don't know what to say. Turning a blind eye to this stuff is how we got here in the first place.

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