are they fixing pvp for dragonflight?

[pelos]

this expansion pvp was terrible, the way gear was done and still is bad. not even mentioning the one-shot kills.

everyone should be able to get max gear, even if it takes you 6 months but should be achievable, i am guessing if you do any pvp, rated or not, 10 3 1 etc... should get a currency, low, that you can trade for gear.

whoever is very good will get the gear faster and who is a casual player eventually will get there but pvp should be about skills and not just gear, (GW2 have done a great way to do tis) as we know the current problem is te first one to get the gear will keep everyone else suppress since they gear is way lower rate and will never be able to upgrade.
example doing pvp with gear lvl 200 vs 220 is a huge disadvantage, in hp, damage and defense.

with this currency even a casual player in a long time will be able to get max gear and be able to compete with good players, (maybe several months after) nether less this fixes the gear issue.


if they will keep the same model for this expansion will be the same bad game again... and after 2 months ppl will cancel the subscription (they already have lost so many from the harrasment lawsuit, form the game been bad, form moving to ff14 and gw2, bringing those back will be hard.

[ClownPrincess]

What they announced/promised is that:

1. pvp gear will unambiguously be the best gear for pvp
2. conquest gear will have the same pvp ilevel for everyone regardless of rating, which will be equivalent to pve mythic gear (I think, I'm a bit fuzzy about that last bit)
3. increasing your rating will just allow you to upgrade the pve ilevel, so you can go use it for pve content too but only with good enough rating (I think they did this because they feel that people deserve rewards for getting higher ratings, imo they should just give a bunch of cosmetic rewards instead but I guess the pve ilevel thing won because it costs them nothing)

They also said something pretty ambiguous about the pvp ilevel "not applying to the open world", which can mean any number of things such as "fuck you pvpers, mythic geared pveers will dominate war mode" or "pvp ilevel will only apply during actual pvp fights in the open world (a la WoD) and not at all time when warmode is enabled like in shadowlands"

The later is what I hope for, it would seem reasonable to avoid conquest gear + war mode to be the easiest way to do open world pve content (to avoid PvE people crying over being "forced" to use warmode) but at the same time it would also seem reasonable to put everyone on equal footing for world pvp just like in instanced pvp (given that conquest gear will be quick and easy to obtain by anyone since there will be a rated solo queue)

Of course there's often a discrepancy between what blizzard promises and what blizzard delivers. For instance, we don't know if stupidly op PvE trinkets will be in play.

[Kagthul]

example doing pvp with gear lvl 200 vs 220 is a huge disadvantage, in hp, damage and defense.

About 14.5-16% difference in stats.

Not refuting your claim, just providing a rough number.

[Gigantique]

Afaik the intent is as stated above, conq gear will be bis for pvp and need no upgrading, it'll be the highest ilvl from the beginning. Rank upgrades boost its pve ilvl that's all.

[will232]

Man i don't know when this will be solved tired of it fr

[pelos]

they keep making it so complicated and then nothing works, pvp is terrible in wow!!!! between the unbalance of classes the unjust gearing system... make it NO FUN! whats the point of paying monthly for a game when you dont get what you pay for ? the fun? every time they say they liste to the feedback is bs, the feed back is so so simple,

just do templates or like gw2 that oyu can just jump to pvp and have fun.

[Gigantique]

they keep making it so complicated and then nothing works, pvp is terrible in wow!!!! between the unbalance of classes the unjust gearing system... make it NO FUN! whats the point of paying monthly for a game when you dont get what you pay for ? the fun? every time they say they liste to the feedback is bs, the feed back is so so simple,

just do templates or like gw2 that oyu can just jump to pvp and have fun.

Because they did that in Legion and pvp participation completely hit rock bottom, burrowed through it and went subterranean.

This is the WoD/MoP style of gearing which is bis imo. You get a cap of conquest each week that is fairly easy to reach. When you buy the conquest belt for example, you instantly have the absolute best belt for pvp even if your rating is 350.

Rating will only let you upgrade the ilvl of the belt to use in PVE content.

[Noctiphobia]

I don't care that much about the way gear is acquired as long as PvE gear is not BiS, but I really hope it gets less bursty. Shadowlands PvP was to me the worst PvP since WotLK because of all the burst.

[melzas]

Bads should be happy about the current system. Whenever they lose in PvP they can blame the gear ("oh i only lost because he had duelist gear and I only got Rival it's all about unfair gear!).

When everyone has access to the best gear, what are you going to blame when you lose? It will become apparent you just suck and will have a hard pill to swallow.

9 out of 10 times I see someone complaining about gear brackets in PvP is someone who is oblivious to why he is hardstuck at X rating.

I guess the argument could be made for people who don't want to play rated games but still have competitive gear for random casual BGs, but honestly that mode will always be a mess so whatever.

[ClownPrincess]

Bads should be happy about the current system. Whenever they lose in PvP they can blame the gear ("oh i only lost because he had duelist gear and I only got Rival it's all about unfair gear!).

When everyone has access to the best gear, what are you going to blame when you lose? It will become apparent you just suck and will have a hard pill to swallow.

9 out of 10 times I see someone complaining about gear brackets in PvP is someone who is oblivious to why he is hardstuck at X rating.

I guess the argument could be made for people who don't want to play rated games but still have competitive gear for random casual BGs, but honestly that mode will always be a mess so whatever.

The only thing that's apparent is that you love to punch down. I guess that's why you are upset at the loss of gear advantage.

[melzas]

The only thing that's apparent is that you love to punch down. I guess that's why you are upset at the loss of gear advantage.

Well I'm not trying to hide it...?

Maybe "upset" is too strong of a word, but yeah I'm definitely against removing player progression from PvP.

Mmorpgs were always about growth of your character. You put effort/time in and your reward is being stronger than other players, that's how pretty much all mmorpgs work. I put effort into getting to 2400 arena which requires time and skill and my reward is to be this 40-0 k/d guy if I decide to join random BGs and own noobs and alts.

They strip that away and the game turns into some moba/shooter/fighter where everyone is the same. What's the point of putting effort into your character, log daily to do caps and dailies if I can just log in halfway through the season spend few evening afking in random BGs and be on the same gear level as everyone else?

[Gigantique]

Well I'm not trying to hide it...?

Maybe "upset" is too strong of a word, but yeah I'm definitely against removing player progression from PvP.

Mmorpgs were always about growth of your character. You put effort/time in and your reward is being stronger than other players, that's how pretty much all mmorpgs work. I put effort into getting to 2400 arena which requires time and skill and my reward is to be this 40-0 k/d guy if I decide to join random BGs and own noobs and alts.

They strip that away and the game turns into some moba/shooter/fighter where everyone is the same. What's the point of putting effort into your character, log daily to do caps and dailies if I can just log in halfway through the season spend few evening afking in random BGs and be on the same gear level as everyone else?

Seeing as this is essentially the MoP approach I wouldn't worry. I still fondly remember back then the path being to get destroyed in BGs while zergrushing the full conquest gods to holding your own a LITTLE bit once you had full honor gear to finally being the 1v5 warrior holding blacksmith myself instead.

I'm sure that will still be the case and I can't wait.

[ClownPrincess]

Mmorpgs were always about growth of your character. You put effort/time in and your reward is being stronger than other players, that's how pretty much all mmorpgs work.

This is dogmatic. "Its has always been like this, therefore it should always be like this".

I put effort into getting to 2400 arena which requires time and skill and my reward is to be this 40-0 k/d guy if I decide to join random BGs and own noobs and alts.

Your reward should not be at the expense of other player's experience. If you're really that good it won't matter, right? You'll still destroy them.

But at least the experience will be more interesting for them, because instead of destroying them by letting the gear difference do the job, you'll destroy them by playing better, and they'll be able to learn a trick or two from you in the process.

They strip that away and the game turns into some moba/shooter/fighter where everyone is the same. What's the point of putting effort into your character, log daily to do caps and dailies if I can just log in halfway through the season spend few evening afking in random BGs and be on the same gear level as everyone else?

The efforts is in learning how to play your character, not in increasing numbers. If you want the later, PvE is right there.

[Omniclass]

This is dogmatic. "Its has always been like this, therefore it should always be like this".



Your reward should not be at the expense of other player's experience. If you're really that good it won't matter, right? You'll still destroy them.

But at least the experience will be more interesting for them, because instead of destroying them by letting the gear difference do the job, you'll destroy them by playing better, and they'll be able to learn a trick or two from you in the process.



The efforts is in learning how to play your character, not in increasing numbers. If you want the later, PvE is right there.

Absolutely nothing to add, as an avid pvp player this is the perfect response, either 2400 rating means you are good and youll win when gear is the same, or those 2400 boosted chars are gonna have to swallow their pride and realize gear was doing alot of the work for them.

[Amariw]

Mostly agreed. Gear in pvp should be a small carrot, not something thats meaningfuly hard to get. An even playing field and being able to quickly jump in and feel decently sturdy on alts is more important than the gear treadmill that is fun in pve.

To give concrete examples: either give Legion's templates or WoD's easy to aquire pvp scaling gear with no rating requirements. Preferably also add a minimum ilvl in pvp so alts can hop right in and not be target practice.

[saixilein]

Gearing in DF is fine, now just make pvp less bursty. Its annoying to get oneshottet. Gameplay is much fasten then back then + super bursty, that is terrible as healer. I really loved tonppwy healer in arenas, but these days its way to fast amd bursty.

[melzas]

The efforts is in learning how to play your character, not in increasing numbers. If you want the later, PvE is right there.

Why? Because you say so? I like the reward to be increase in numbers.

Or is this dogmatic? "It's like that in other PvP games so it should be like that in wow too"...?

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Absolutely nothing to add, as an avid pvp player this is the perfect response, either 2400 rating means you are good and youll win when gear is the same, or those 2400 boosted chars are gonna have to swallow their pride and realize gear was doing alot of the work for them.

Someone having more rating than you usually doesn't mean he is boosted, it means he is better than you in PvP. Diminishing effort and skill of others only because it's out of your reach is pretty pathetic.

[Bats]

Love reading these posts of people crying because they lost their massive gear advantage. Now you'll have to actually be better than others to achieve your feelings of superiority!

Saying that I'm incredibly glad gear rating requirements are gone. Getting the 2.1 from 1950 was a bigger struggle than ~2.3 starting later in a season. Deleting people with no gear in unranked PvP was also boring and unsatisfying while gearing up alts felt awful.

On paper everything they're doing so far with DF is good but we can't tell for sure until we play.

[Thes]

Saying that I'm incredibly glad gear rating requirements are gone. Getting the 2.1 from 1950 was a bigger struggle than ~2.3 starting later in a season. Deleting people with no gear in unranked PvP was also boring and unsatisfying while gearing up alts felt awful.

Because rating inflation carries people later into the season

[Omniclass]

Why? Because you say so? I like the reward to be increase in numbers.

Or is this dogmatic? "It's like that in other PvP games so it should be like that in wow too"...?

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Someone having more rating than you usually doesn't mean he is boosted, it means he is better than you in PvP. Diminishing effort and skill of others only because it's out of your reach is pretty pathetic.

But boosts do exist, and boosted character played badly can beat better players with less gear, be it time constraints or alts. We will all see if you are as good as you think you are next expansion. Are you excited or afraid?