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  1. #41
    it is absolutely the hardest spec i have played by far. anyone else who disagrees is either a liar or leaving dps on the table but holy fuck is it fun to play
    Last edited by LedZeppelin; 2022-12-07 at 12:37 AM.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by LedZeppelin View Post
    it is absolutely the hardest spec i have played by far. anyone else who disagrees is either a liar or leaving dps on the table but holy fuck is it fun to play
    A player doing 90% dps is still usable in a group. So leaving dps on the table is fine. A hard class is therefore for the topic of "too difficult" one with high skill floor while high skill ceiling is fine.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by kiramon View Post
    But it lights up so much in DF
    then press it more?

  4. #44
    Mechagnome Lenin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LedZeppelin View Post
    it is absolutely the hardest spec i have played by far. anyone else who disagrees is either a liar or leaving dps on the table but holy fuck is it fun to play
    I agree it's one of the hardest (if not the hardest) specs in the game to play at the moment. However, once you get a feel for it and manage to really execute your rotations in perfection you are getting rewarded with insane amount of DPS. I basically outclassed group of 370 people with 357 ilvl outlaw and by a pretty big margin. I can only imagine what will this spec do with tier set and BiS gear.

  5. #45
    I've toyed around with it a bit and i mostly feel like i should be using addons to centralise the info i need to keep track of, maybe to offload attention stuff like fading buffs or something.

    But it's pretty fun combined with the animacharge stuff, effective too.
    No idea if that's anywhere near optimal but i'd check out guides if i cared about that.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  6. #46
    Difficult? Nah, not really. Spammy as hell? Oh, yes.

    @loras
    If you are not using addons/wa auras to track your buffs then you are indeed doing something wrong. We have many abilities yes, but because of RB it mostly boils down to press button when it lights up. Also if you go with Dreadblades you might not even have to bother with refreshing SnD. Had like a 6 min SnD buff yesterday in dungeons.
    And why use Shiv?

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Avengerx View Post
    Difficult? Nah, not really. Spammy as hell? Oh, yes.

    @loras
    If you are not using addons/wa auras to track your buffs then you are indeed doing something wrong. We have many abilities yes, but because of RB it mostly boils down to press button when it lights up. Also if you go with Dreadblades you might not even have to bother with refreshing SnD. Had like a 6 min SnD buff yesterday in dungeons.
    And why use Shiv?
    Honestly if playing the game without auras is wrong, then the game is wrong lol.
    Dreadblades is nice.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    Honestly if playing the game without auras is wrong, then the game is wrong lol.
    Dreadblades is nice.
    Can't agree more if you need auras to perform with a class it means there's something wrong with the design.

  9. #49
    Outlaw is the easiest of the rogue specs. Granted it's hard if you only played havoc or fury, most melee specs are quite simple compared to the rogue ones.

    To play outlaw in 20+ keys probably takes the least effort and learning of the 3 specs. You need to make weakauras for your audacity and opportunity procs, and get muscle memory to play whack-a-mole with your ambush and pistol shot keys. You need a weakaura to tell you when to roll. Other than that the spec is completely scripted finishing with dispatch and maintaining BtE and SnD which lasts forever. The only reason people think it's "hard" is because they don't have the right weakauras and get overwhelmed with procs. The spec requires very little decision making, has no resource limitations, doesn't really care about combo points, doesn't need to target switch ever, doesn't need to maintain any dots, and it's hard to waste cds since they are up so fast. It's the best rogue spec for beginners to learn on.

    Assass requires a ton of bleed management in high keys you can't just rely on IC to do all the work, and sub has the most variable rotations, apm about the same as outlaw, and positional dot management. The 2 specs are a fair bit harder to play optimally in high keys.
    Last edited by aimercj; 2023-02-03 at 11:43 AM.

  10. #50
    Outlaw is pretty cozy kit wise and isn't all that mechanically complex. People struggling are due to the pacing and it's highly understandable, it's literally up there with anime fighters despite having none of the grace of a mechanical game like that hell it's mostly just OG era WoW shit on 3x fast forward.

    I enjoy it in short bursts, legitimately think it feels like trash in repeated, sustained keys though which is why they have to keep power bribing interest into the class.

  11. #51
    I have played a little Outlaw Rogue in Dragonflight and for my first time playing it I have found it fun. It does seem a little simple to me to be honest, the most complex part being ensuring you have 'Between the Eyes' up in boss fights to maximum crit damage. Otherwise, I am not sure why you are struggling to maintain 'Slice and Dice', if you spec into seven combo points you maintain it for up to two/three minutes which is extremely easy to do.

  12. #52
    As someone who has played a combat rogue since vanilla, and recently returned to DF.

    Have you tried BM Hunter? Literal 3 button hero.

  13. #53
    Nah man you're in cooldown combo pressinglands now and this is where you'll stay until cooldownpressingcombolands 3.0 which will most likely happen unless people rage a bit more and comprehend how bad the game is right now,

    Which sadly they won't because all they see is the graphics, and not what is under the hood.

    A talent like "Unhinged" in the Arms warrior tree for example, it's stupidity right, like how is it a good things tio automatically cast other spells while you're pressing spells, I get deep wounds that it would proc bleeds on things while you Bladestorm, but automatically casting 2 Mortal Strikes while you Bladestorm is just one of the 100s of BAD combat mechanic changes that not really complicate the game, it makes the game more stupid and simplified for a complete POTATO to compete with anyone, so you press your

    KYRIAN SPEAR(DISABLER) AVATAR(AUTO BLADESTORM) into BLADESTORM(AUTO MORTAL STRIKES).

    And back on OP's original issue, the game is zoomerfied, so it's all about faster gameplay, more spam spam spam, less attention span, more procs, has to be faster and faster until we're at the speed of light traveling on our computer chairs through hyperdimensionality, yes.

    GARBAGE GAME DESIGN
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  14. #54
    Even though the rotation is sort of easy as you just follow a priority list, I'm starting to dislike the button/ability bloat we have. Sinister Strike, Ambush, Dispatch, BtE, SnD, RtB, BR/GS, KS/DB, AR, BF, Vanish, SD and now CB aswell just in the standard rotation. Then Cloak, Feint, movement abilities, trinkets etc and then 3 stuns, blind + tricks for m+s. Just feels like way too much.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Avengerx View Post
    Even though the rotation is sort of easy as you just follow a priority list, I'm starting to dislike the button/ability bloat we have. Sinister Strike, Ambush, Dispatch, BtE, SnD, RtB, BR/GS, KS/DB, AR, BF, Vanish, SD and now CB aswell just in the standard rotation. Then Cloak, Feint, movement abilities, trinkets etc and then 3 stuns, blind + tricks for m+s. Just feels like way too much.
    My major misgiving right now are the two maintenance buffs. These never feel like fun. Press this button and use resources to do your job slightly better for a time. Slice and Dice reminds me of Inquisition from my Ret days.

    And Roll the Bones is kind of a PITA in terms of design. It's full of class flavor. But, it leads to inconsistencies. Is randomization good in a rotation? Is it a good ability if it boils down to someone using a Weakaura to say if your roll was good or not, and just reroll on cooldown if necessary? Probably not.

    But, I also don't want Roll the Bones to be so game-changing that you essentially have to maintain 2 or 3 or more rotations. It would be more "exciting" or "meaningful" but not better. RtB is probably in the only good spot it can be right now... it can give you a little boost or a big boost and none of it really stops you from doing what you're already doing, and how you're doing it.

    Maybe if RtB made a very stark but short change to your rotation depending on what came up... like you have 10 seconds of Ambushes you can just chain together, or 10 seconds where Sinister Strike strikes like 5 times every time you press it... so you basically have windows of where you're a one button wonder, and after that, RtB is on cooldown and you can go back to your normal rotation. That might be worth trying at least?

  16. #56
    The problem with current Outlaw is the spec is clunky because of energy starvation and RNG on top of everything (eg RTB, Second Sinister Strike, etc).

    The energy starvation is a purposeful balance attempt because of how Outlaw now has access to shadow dance. But in the process they have taken away a little bit of Subs identity and made it harder to keep Outlaw's identity as a spec that shines with energy.

    So right now Outlaw is stuck between being a pseudo Sub with some elements of Outlaw/Combat intact. Basically it is closer to being a new spec now than it was lets say in Legion (eg pirate outlaw).

  17. #57
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    Exactly this. The whole thread. Old and confused. Outlaw rogue just doesn't feel like a 'rogue' class anymore to me. Have been playing assassination (casually) when I do get time to log in these days.
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  18. #58
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    Problem with Outlaw is the GCD. You want to hit Feint, you want to hit Vial, you want to do all this other stuff but it's on GCD for no reason at all. The GCD is absolute cancer in Retail. It's been swept under the rug and forgotten about, but I am reminded of it every time I play Outlaw.

    They need to do the Disc priest treatment on ALL classes. Combine all this buff garbage and make it baseline. Vanish and Shadowdance are basically the same exact damn button damage wise, the only difference is that Vanish is a global stealth thing... I have an idea. Just implement something that grants a second charge of Shadowdance. Whoaaaaa, so difficult!!!!

    Also notice how there's Alacrity in the base tree and then there's some garbage talent in the other tree that increases your haste by 10% when you leave stealth and then there's also Slice and Dice. Is there some top secret mastermind reason we need 100000 different haste talents and abilities?? Good lord almighty it's peak convolution.

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