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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    Yeah, I looked at it, noticed the quote was incomplete, and then, based on the complete quoted, understood what she was actually saying. Weird how what she was actually saying conflicted so much with the bullshit you (and that author) were trying to foist on everyone. Just look at this nonsense:.
    You are saying all this and giving no citation where the quote was taken out of context? I'm taking what Hillary stated directly from the article. Why is this so hard for you. If you give me a citation where Hillary expounds or cleans this up. Please Link.



    We get it. Democrats are bad, the US is evil, clinton is literally satan, blah blah blah. This is the type of garbage I was talking about when I said your rhetoric is indistinguishable from 5th column activity
    WTF! Taken my quote out of context. Stope drama farming.
    Is Meloni in US back pocket? Cause idk why you can praise anything she says.
    . I was making a statement of why would Hillary say this. A statement to @cubby about why she would say this. Never stated as a fact. Even @cubby understands this.
    “There is a cult of ignorance in the United States…. [It is] nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’”

    -Isaac Asimov

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
    You are saying all this and giving no citation where the quote was taken out of context? I'm taking what Hillary stated directly from the article. Why is this so hard for you. If you give me a citation where Hillary expounds or cleans this up. Please Link.
    You already partially did when you linked the jacobin (though even that elides parts of the quote and misframes it!). Post#29 in this thread has the quotes not taken out of context. She's clearly saying two things: "breaking gender barriers is good" and "fuck that lady". That's what that type of thing means when you actually understand that type of talk. It's why she brought up thatcher with her "I never agreed with Margaret Thatcher, but I admired her determination" line. A denouncement of their politics, but applauding the barrier being broken.
    WTF! Taken my quote out of context. Stope drama farming.. I was making a statement of why would Hillary say this. A statement to @cubby about why she would say this. Never stated as a fact. Even @cubby understands this.
    That quote is in the exact context it needs. This is your "just asking questions" glenn beck/tucker carlson impersonation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  3. #43
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
    So many Hillary stans.

    Who cares if she is the first woman elected. Jeeeez! She really seems to be a fascist piece of bleep. Her rhetoric toward accepting migrants and fringe communities is at leas disturbing. Meloni dips her toes into many questionable things so you don't need to give credit to her gender. A piece of bleep is a piece of bleep, no matter what they accomplishing.
    How in the hell is Hillary even in the same zip code as a fascist? Do you just not know what fascism actually is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    The extent to which a conversation about an Italian election is dominated by argument about what a failed American Presidential candidate did or didn't say about her is really pretty remarkable.
    Some people have an abiding, irrational hatred for that woman and I've never understood. I don't particularly like her, just as I did not particularly like Thatcher (since we've mentioned her earlier in this thread), but I don't hate her and have never had reason to.

    Putin's anti-Clinton memeing in the 2016 election cycle was exceptionally effective, clearly. I think it was even more successful against the idiot berniebros than it ever was with conservatives.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Serpent View Post
    I don't particularly like her, just as I did not particularly like Thatcher (since we've mentioned her earlier in this thread), but I don't hate her and have never had reason to.
    Thatcher's policies directly caused ruinous harm to many communities and individuals while offering no redress. There is a reason for people to hate her.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Thatcher's policies directly caused ruinous harm to many communities and individuals while offering no redress. There is a reason for people to hate her.
    Oh, I agree. Thatcher was a fucking monster.

  6. #46
    So Meloni wins. She campaigns against the elite and sides with family, God, and Italian national identity. These elites, what do they do? Call her the second coming of Mussolini and tar her with associations with the past.

    That's pretty premature, I'd say. And it's eerily reminiscent of other change elections where current governing coalitions were viewed as out of touch, and voters were prepared to give something different a try. From Politico-Europe:

    The party “no longer pays any attention to the little people, to the working people,” said Renzo. And in the towns and villages north of Rome, he isn’t an outlier.
    The press paints her as some kind of second coming of Mussolini; I don’t believe that,” said Pietro, a 58-year-old shopkeeper in Bagnioregio. “They should give her a chance. Heaven knows we need something to change, we need more certainty, more stability,” he added.
    A fractured left has offered no persuasive countervailing vision to convince people like Anna-Maria, a 45-year-old housewife in the Umbrian town of Orvieto, who, on the eve of the polls, said she’d be breaking her habit of voting for the left.

    The Democratic Party has done nothing to end the migrant invasion …These migrants are not us. We don’t have enough money for ourselves, and our kids can’t get jobs. Enough is enough.
    https://www.politico.eu/article/why-...elt-unbuckled/

    The rhetoric before her first speeches or acts strikes me as more like "Members of the left, fresh from a humiliating defeat, fear what she might do," but had to spice it up a little bit into "She's a fascist, she always was a fascist, and damn the dumb voters for voting in fascism."

    For generalizations, this looks to be reactionary, and not all of those turn out well. Definitely a strike against political norms. Definitely a huge culture war moment, with the contrary claims surrounding fascism, cultural norms, LGBTQ+, family, immigration, national identity. The famous speech of hers was taken down by YouTube for violating community guidelines, before it was reinstated once news outlets called on YouTube to answer the "why" behind that. No surprise there.

    I hope she trends towards the center-right while delivering on the campaign promises. And I hope she's ready for the fight. https://www.fratelli-italia.it/2022/...e-opposizione/ (https://www-fratelli--italia-it.tran..._x_tr_pto=wapp). We'll see what the government does. This is definitely one to watch.
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  7. #47
    Reminds me of the victimhood complex US republicans seem to always have and then use as an excuse to abuse people they don't like. So I'm guessing that's exactly what's she's going to do.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    Am I the only one who finds the concept of a female hard right wing leader as kind of a contradiction?
    This one, Marine LePen in France, Alice Weidel and Sarah Wagenknecht in Germany. Tbh, I believe they are more opportunists than actual believers in fascist ideology.
    “There you stand, the good man doing nothing. And while evil triumphs, and your rigid pacifism crumbles to blood stained dust, the only victory afforded to you is that you stuck true to your guns.”

  9. #49
    Part opportunist part internalised misogyny.
    - Lars

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