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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Put a timer on it like "Reinforcements arrive in X" and when it is up the defenders win and the zone gets flooded with guards.



    Make it a scheduled activity.



    Make the bosses do something.



    Make the bosses more balanced.

    Honestly, before you act like an idea has some kind of insurmountable, unsolvable game design problems, you should at least put six seconds of thought into it. It's embarrassing.
    What's embarrassing is that your game design problem solving is "make the bosses do something".

    Do you have any idea why world bosses are piss easy?
    Do you honestly think that if this is some SCHEDULED, TIMED and HARD event people will play it?
    Are these the things you see players love in the current game?

    Goddamn if you keep this up they are going to name a mental illness after you.

    What's your next idea? Make it instanced as well?
    Congrats, you created a dogshit BG for what, shits and giggles?

  2. #22
    Brewmaster Pakheth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Capitol defense is the only PVP that I've ever really liked. That said I doubt it would work today with everyone hastily seeking a realm that they can enjoy "safe" PVP on, i.e. faction splits that practically insure a win in most kinds of open world PVP.

    And that, if we are being honest, which many never are, is why PVP is not especially a pillar of WoW's popularity and never has been. People seem to truly loathe the idea of totally fair open world PVP and do everything possible to avoid it. It was an afterthought at launch and despite many, many attempts to clean it up, it's pretty much an afterthought now. Fans of PVP have mostly moved on to other games.
    I am also one of those who liked the capital raid/defense concept more than the typical open world PVP(ie ganking). I guess it felt more like a group effort and those who didn't like it could easily avoid going into the capital when word of mouth spread. But like you said it would be a lot more difficult today due to how the people playing have changed, the game too with Warmode and cross realm.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Garymorilix View Post
    What's embarrassing is that your game design problem solving is "make the bosses do something".

    Do you have any idea why world bosses are piss easy?
    If your argument is that the bosses dont have mechanics, don't whine when someone says "then give them mechanics".

    Do you honestly think that if this is some SCHEDULED, TIMED and HARD event people will play it?
    Wintergrasp is one of the most lauded features ever added to wow and it was scheduled, timed pvp with consequences for win/loss.

    Are these the things you see players love in the current game?

    Goddamn if you keep this up they are going to name a mental illness after you.

    What's your next idea? Make it instanced as well?
    Congrats, you created a dogshit BG for what, shits and giggles?
    I simply pointed out that your supposedly insurmountable game design problems were very easily rectified. "I don't like it" and "It can't be done" aren't the same thing. I don't like pickle and mayonnaise sandwiches, but I don't go around declaring them impossible to construct.

    You said some silly, embarrassing shit. This cringy attempt at making yourself look strong by being overly aggressive in order to distract from saying silly shit isn't doing you any favors.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    You can clearly see WPVP back at WOTLK Classic servers, people are storming Orgrimmar/Ironforge/Stormwind/Thunder Bluff like the good old days.
    Yes. Once. For the Bear mount. Then never again. Just like back then. This is not a trend, the goldfish in your plateau boots are dead, Disco Stu.
    But your duty to Azeroth is not yet complete. More is demanded of you... a price the living cannot pay.

  5. #25
    The problem with huge PvP raids is that they're tough on people with potato computers.

  6. #26
    Brewmaster Pakheth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotmail View Post
    The problem with huge PvP raids is that they're tough on people with potato computers.
    That is sadly a fact Even with how much I enjoyed them back in the day they could really kill my computer, but the server instability back then did not help on performance either.

    I wonder if such an event could be made queable like a scenario. So that you have a max number of players that can sign up when the event goes live, and only a certain amount of people can join at a time before it gets split by the zoning tech. But I guess such a system is ripe for abuse as well.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathanyel View Post
    Yes. Once. For the Bear mount. Then never again. Just like back then. This is not a trend, the goldfish in your plateau boots are dead, Disco Stu.
    They were pretty common and a lot of people enjoyed them. You are acting like they were super rare and they just weren't.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Theosis View Post
    Honestly I think they should make BGs around faction bosses. Like how Wiinterspring was, every hour a new battle defend one side then next hour attack one side.

    Its not exactly what you are talking about but this would be EPIC
    I'd love this idea over a return to the old way. I had a blast in the old way, especially defending, it was fun. But these days you need incentive for most to do much of anything. Having it be a Wintergrasp* style also allows them to define a clear win/lose trigger, to reward successful defenses.

    Add vehicles, destructible buildings, the whole bit. Lore wise it would have to be attributed to rogue groups or something though, and of course- warmode required.

    Though at this point maybe just make them into interesting BGs, though that defeats the point to some extent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    You are kinda joe Roganing this topic. Hardly have any actual knowledge other than what people have told you, and jumping into a discussion with people who have direct experience with it. Don't be Joe Rogan.

  9. #29
    Over 9000! Gimlix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotmail View Post
    The problem with huge PvP raids is that they're tough on people with potato computers.
    So those with a beefy computer get punished for those players.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shekora View Post
    Goddamn it, Gimlix, why do you keep making these threads?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam the Wiser View Post
    Goddamn it, Gimlix, why do you keep making these threads?

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Pakheth View Post
    That is sadly a fact Even with how much I enjoyed them back in the day they could really kill my computer, but the server instability back then did not help on performance either.

    I wonder if such an event could be made queable like a scenario. So that you have a max number of players that can sign up when the event goes live, and only a certain amount of people can join at a time before it gets split by the zoning tech. But I guess such a system is ripe for abuse as well.
    When you say Scenario, do you mean a PvE raid on capital cities? I don't know if people would be interested in that.

    I could see a format like Tarren Mill VS Southshore... 40 vs 40 is still a lot of people though, especially with all those NPCs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    So those with a beefy computer get punished for those players.
    I wouldn't use the word "punished" but, let's be real, Blizzard since the late 90s/early 2000s has made their fortune catering to those with potato computers.

    Ever had a compatibility issue with a Blizzard game? Me neither.

  11. #31
    Blizzard tried to bring wPvP back numerous times in the past. Wintergrasp, Tol Barad, Ashran... none of them worked and they kinda gave up after Legion. Here's the thing - wPvP is extremely polarising in that some people die by it while others absolutely despise it. Unfortunately the former group lacks the numbers to sustain it as an enduring form of content, which means the latter group needs to be dragged in screaming and kicking for wPvP to remain a thing. Capital city raids are a prime example - folks get murdered while trying to shop or craft and it's not an enjoyable experience. Getting oneshotted by max level rogues while leveling isn't exactly rewarding either, but if you try to limit the fighting to somewhat equally matched individuals it basically becomes a battleground without objectives - at this point you might as well just queue for a BG for better rewards.

    I think PvP gaming in general went through a paradigm shift some 10~15 years ago. In the days of DAoC and vanilla WoW people actually enjoyed the grandeur of large scale battles with all sorts of magic flying through the air. Then we saw a rise of PvP games with an emphasis on personal skill and tightly knit coordination (MOBAs, hyper-FPS games etc.) and games with an emphasis on large scale RvR combat slowly died out. Nowadays even inside WoW serious PvPers are all playing arena (pinnacle of personal skill), large scale BGs like AV or Isle of Conquest are somewhat unpopular and wPvP remains dead. I don't think Blizzard could reverse the trend at this point.

  12. #32
    "Unfortunately the former group lacks the numbers to sustain it as an enduring form of content" = it was always something prepped up by a vocal minority. Even Vanilla PvP realms weren't a constant field of blood. While levelling, you mostly ignored the other faction, unless you encountered a bored level ??

    People essentially agreed on certain locations (Tarren Mill/Southshore, STV) to even find other willing wPvP participants, which, yes, logically lead to battlegrounds.
    But your duty to Azeroth is not yet complete. More is demanded of you... a price the living cannot pay.

  13. #33
    Brewmaster Pakheth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotmail View Post
    When you say Scenario, do you mean a PvE raid on capital cities? I don't know if people would be interested in that.

    I could see a format like Tarren Mill VS Southshore... 40 vs 40 is still a lot of people though, especially with all those NPCs.
    Sort of, but I was thinking the enemy could queue as well, but have a cap to ensure the servers didn't crash from too many players in one place. So not really PvE but more like the Tarren Mill VS South shore concept. A hybrid sort of? But yeah 40x40 is a lot, but even with the lagfest it is kinda fun. Just pure chaos. A bit like how Wintergrasp was in the beginning.

  14. #34
    Yes. They're part of the fantasy.
    But, it need to include more than just players. Siege weapons and such...

  15. #35
    No. Let it rest

  16. #36
    Sure if its instanced only or does not impact players in the slightest.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Garymorilix View Post
    This idea is dead on arrival.

    - Nobody will bother defending. You can't even reward defending because you cannot define a win-state for a defense in the open world.
    - Even in an ideal world where everyone and their mother is doing WPvP people would just do this in off-hours because whatever reward you can cook up cannot offset the potential hours of wiping constantly.
    - The bosses themselves do literally fucking nothing so if people don't defend this is more boring the current world bosses.
    - Some faction leaders are easier to kill than others, worst offender is Grommash Hold in Orgrimmar. If you manage to give rewards to defenders there is no way Alliance is killing the boss there (or, as said above, they can only do so in off-hours which would be bad for many casuals).

    Overall this idea is just Ashran, but worse in every way.
    Ashran is literally THIS but with side objectives.
    Provided no systems are put in place.
    Make it instanced to keep lowbies out of it, initiate by planting a banner outside the gates, trigger a call to arms, spawn a guard for every invader that joined and have scaling rewards for defending and attacking. Make certain areas capturable by the invaders to stem reinforcements with minibosses.
    Defenders that are outnumbered get buffed a certain amount and reduced respawn time.
    Make an actual mode and it's good to go

  18. #38
    Titan Al Gorefiend's Avatar
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    I feel like I'm partly responsible for why so many people don't like world PvP :/ I should have ganked less... at least I didn't res camp.

  19. #39
    No. I couldn't care less about world pvp.

    Major city raid us something you did once when the game was young and there was nothing to do. There is plenty to do now. Especially outside WoW. I expect these raids to go away soon. It's only the launch craze.

  20. #40
    Well considering the "war" is over now... it'd make no sense for the faction cities to come under attack. NOW... what they can do since warmongering and profiteering will no doubt always be a thing. Have sections of zones have "conflict points" where world pvp takes place still over either ruins or resources. The new reputations for this pvp won't be the old ones but be like specific NPCs that front the costs for such endeavors. I can see someone like Genn secretly funding attacks on UC regardless that they are apparently leaving Gilneas. Or maybe even have Gilneas become a world pvp zone as the worgen try to take it back and certain undead don't want to give it up, say the Apocethary doesn't want to lose their test subjects so they fight against leaving.....

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