Be honest. How difficult is WotLK 5-man heroic?

[xenogear3]

They did the same thing with Classic being based off of the final patch and TBC being based off final patch.

I didn't play the Classic Vanilla and TBC, so I didn't know.
Blizzard could release 3.0 at launch. 6 months later, release 3.3.5
That will be more close to the name "Classic".

I guess that is too much work for Blizzard.

[Kalisandra]

14 years ago, I don't think the relic, offhand, shield and trinket are in the Emblem of Heroism shop.

I have Honor reputation with all 4 factions when I ding 80.
Is it always that fast?

In the day you'd need to spend time grinding rep, either at 80 or on the way. I recall Ebon Blade rep being a pain in the arse.

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He was heavily nerfed. The original incarnation in patch 3.0 was so hard that he had more player kills than any other boss, including raid bosses. The AoE would do enough to 1shot non-tanks and if you were more than 15 or so yards from him, you'd be taking like 10-15% of your health every second.

I remember it being really rough as a Paladin healer unless bubble was available (so he had to die before he got a second nova off).

People claiming that Loken was dead easy might want to read the wowpedia article on tactics for the fight: https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Loken_(tactics) Sure, it's not complex, but this sort of thing was not a common requirement at the time in dungeons, BC heroics largely requiring good CC (and sufficient tank and healer gear). Also, while not hard if you were coming out of BC heroics, the trash pulls before Loken included mobs that had to be CCd or kicked or they'd wipe you (https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Stormforged_Runeshaper). Before gear rendered it all trivial pug groups used to wipe a lot in there by being careless, breaking CC, not CCing, etc.

[xenogear3]

I remember it being really rough as a Paladin healer unless bubble was available (so he had to die before he got a second nova off).

It was difficult for Priest too.
With ilevel 187, the priest only has 14000 HP.
The tank only has 20000 HP.

[Big Thanks]

With ilevel 187, the priest only has 14000 HP.

I have 10k health at level 71 as Rogue How in the world priest has so little health

[Loveliest]

Pretty sure OP wants to know from people who tried them now on Classic Wrath. Whatever you guys might remember or think of what used to be over a decade ago is just skewing the responses.

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level of disappointment people will have when they realise Cata heroics are easy as fuck, I'm looking forward to it.

If they do Classic Cata, it will never have the dungeons pre-nerf, the aggro pre-buff, the CC getting mobs into combat, some tanks not having interrupt (they were given one slightly later from launch) etc. Never again will you get the same experience. It was not just the dungeons themselves, it was several factors.

And as per usual, Cata dungeons WERE easy with a group of friends. Terrible with LFD pugs.

[Mysterymask]

I didn't play the Classic Vanilla and TBC, so I didn't know.
Blizzard could release 3.0 at launch. 6 months later, release 3.3.5
That will be more close to the name "Classic".

I guess that is too much work for Blizzard.

I can tell you exactly what and it's not because it's "too much work"

As an example I will use a Rogue for that is what I played back then

-3 different versions of Hunger for Blood none of them fun all of them mandatory
-HAT bug where it stacked with other Rogue's who has the talent
-Throwing Weapon Specialization. Im sure our resident pvpers would prefer we didn't have that at any point

Not to mention it's not very fun when you know your going to get nerfed in a phase

[Stormdash]

The only genuinely "hard" one was Halls of Reflection on release, before they nerfed the add spawns and before people started cheesing it by hiding in a corner. Tanking the trash gauntlets when they could spawn two priests or two rogues, from the door, was exciting; tanking them from the center dais was ecstasy.

[DeltrusDisc]

They are not tough at the beginning. We dinged 80 and 5 minutes later were in a heroic aoe tanking it with a full group who just leveled. In TBC you had to use crowd control because it was unfeasible to aoe tank heroics until you were basically raid geared. Without raid gear we are now pulling 3 groups at a time and aoe tanking it with 80 blues from heroics. We are already doing timed strat runs with 12+ minutes on the timer when we get to the boss. We were doing all of this 4 days before raids even release, on a reduced timer to the original.

Note that I said "tougher" I never equated them to tbc heroics. I know, tbc heroics were harder up until the bitter end.

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No I don't, not they weren't tough.

I remember being bored of 5-man in original WotLK even before we started raiding, watching videos while spamming one key and needing guild friends to drag me out for achiev because I had no motivation to do them otherwise.
This false argument was thrown around 10 years ago already, and we can right now check how wrong it is.

Reading comprehension.
Tougher vs tough. Key difference.

[Akka]

Reading comprehension.
Tougher vs tough. Key difference.

Don't try to pull a "technically" here. You clearly implied that the heroics weren't faceroll at the beginning or you wouldn't claim that people "forgot how it became easier".

[Relapses]

I didn't play the Classic Vanilla and TBC, so I didn't know.
Blizzard could release 3.0 at launch. 6 months later, release 3.3.5
That will be more close to the name "Classic".

I guess that is too much work for Blizzard.

The goal of Classic has always been a museum experience. It was never meant to emulate the exact patch cadence of each expansion and if you're going into this expecting as much then that's squarely a you issue. There are valid criticisms of the way Blizzard has handled Classic but their decision to keep balancing on a single patch is not one of them.

[Irian]

They are incredibly easy compared to almost all content in retail. BC heroics made them look like baby's first dungeon.

I remember very mild bumps in some heroics like Halls of Lightning, Halls of Reflection and Utgarde Pinnacle, but nothing that would stop a group with a total IQ above room temperature from finishing.

[Battlebeard]

I like the difficulty, feels nice to not have to deal with the crap of TBC anymore.

Some have awful mechanics tho, all of Oculus sucks, Halls of Stone 3rd boss sucks, Culling of Stratholme sucks, Utgarde Pinnacle isn't great either.

[RobertMugabe]

Yup they are easy af still and I love them lol.

TBC heroics in TBCC were actually really hard in p1 with pugs and even as a guild group, but yeah the Wrath heroics are basically the same as heroics/m0 are on retail.

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I was hoping the classic uses patch 3.0
Instead, it is 3.3.5

If it is 3.3.5, why does Blizzard remove LFD?
What was Blizzard thinking ?

What does it even matter. It's not like in Vanilla where the patches have significantly buffed each class and the gear that was already available. Those Wrath patches only got us class tuning (and thus in many cases big nerfs to classes like dk's and rogues) and not mega buffs across the board.

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and along with that a lot of classes became a LOT stronger. Some select specs got weaker in some ways, but if you look at classes as an overall there is a massive power increase compared to 3.0.

Again, this is straight up NOT true for any class.

[Bigbazz]

Yup they are easy af still and I love them lol.

TBC heroics in TBCC were actually really hard in p1 with pugs and even as a guild group, but yeah the Wrath heroics are basically the same as heroics/m0 are on retail.

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What does it even matter. It's not like in Vanilla where the patches have significantly buffed each class and the gear that was already available. Those Wrath patches only got us class tuning (and thus in many cases big nerfs to classes like dk's and rogues) and not mega buffs across the board.

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Again, this is straight up NOT true for any class.

Lol alright mate, all the patch notes and changes are just made up? Right.

[SinR]

I like the difficulty, feels nice to not have to deal with the crap of TBC anymore.

Some have awful mechanics tho, all of Oculus sucks, Halls of Stone 3rd boss sucks, Culling of Stratholme sucks, Utgarde Pinnacle isn't great either.

COS is brain dead easy. "Run here kill stuff run there kill stuff. Repeat until the end".
HOS Tribunal is brain dead easy. "Oh there's FIRE where I'm at? I should move!"
Occy is easy if you understand the beam on the Bronze Dragon. "channel beam, at 10 stacks wait for the other drakes to Beam the boss, blow boss up, channel beam, let them blow boss up, MOVE AWAY WHEN HE PHASES OUT, Stun when he enrages"
What's hard about UP?

[Pozz]

COS is brain dead easy. "Run here kill stuff run there kill stuff. Repeat until the end".
HOS Tribunal is brain dead easy. "Oh there's FIRE where I'm at? I should move!"
Occy is easy if you understand the beam on the Bronze Dragon. "channel beam, at 10 stacks wait for the other drakes to Beam the boss, blow boss up, channel beam, let them blow boss up, MOVE AWAY WHEN HE PHASES OUT, Stun when he enrages"
What's hard about UP?

Awful != hard, pretty sure they praised the easier HCs.

[RobertMugabe]

Lol alright mate, all the patch notes and changes are just made up? Right.

Yeah what you are saying is absolutely made up. At this point you could've shown the patch notes where they have straight up buffed every class and thus added a lot of power to them, but you didn't. And of course you didn't, because such patch notes don't exist.

Blizzard had buffed, nerfed abilities during Wrath, just like they did all the time. We call this "tuning". However just because they are doing class balancing/tuning, it doesn't mean that they have over the course of the expansion just straight buffed every class (like how it was in vanilla or how they have upgraded hundreds of items in vanilla where some being green items and then being upgraded to rare quaility).

This is simply a lie and you have no proof that this happened in Wrath. It was actually in some cases on the contrary. Some classes were initially so bugged and OP, like DK's and Rogues in 3.0 and paladins in 3.2 that they had to do some significant nerfs to these classes.

[DeltrusDisc]

Don't try to pull a "technically" here. You clearly implied that the heroics weren't faceroll at the beginning or you wouldn't claim that people "forgot how it became easier".

For the average player, they were not faceroll.
Not everyone was decked out like some of you think. I remember being in plenty of groups that were only barely able to do some of the heroics. I remember certain bosses being really tough on less geared/less skilled groups - which are the average playerbase. But for sure, TBC was on another level. I remember running shit like heroic Mag's Terrace and I loved the place for its aesthetic and music and heck, the challenge of it. At the very start of WotLK however, heroics were not faceroll like you all are suggesting, they were tougher than later on, as people got better and better gear but heroics weren't like mythic dungeons that scale up in difficulty each new patch, so alas, things got ridiculously easy in the end of the expansion.

[StrawberryZebra]

What's hard about UP?

Nothing is "hard" about it. There's lots thats annoying about it. Like the long RP event before the first and second bosses, the harpoons on the third that everyone seems to have totally forgotten how to do, and the last one is going to practically perma-stun you.

You do a lot of stopping and starting which makes it feel like a chore.

[Akka]

For the average player, they were not faceroll.
Not everyone was decked out like some of you think.

This point has been REPEATEDLY debunked, they were faceroll even in quest green.

I remember being in plenty of groups that were only barely able to do some of the heroics. I remember certain bosses being really tough on less geared/less skilled groups - which are the average playerbase.

I don't, and I am not part of the "hardcore minmaxer" crowd.

At the very start of WotLK however, heroics were not faceroll like you all are suggesting

Yes they were, and already at the time people complained about it.

they were tougher than later on, as people got better and better gear but heroics weren't like mythic dungeons that scale up in difficulty each new patch, so alas, things got ridiculously easy in the end of the expansion.

They were already ridiculously easy in the beginning, as we can notice right now.