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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Belloc View Post
    The problem here is that you're counting both original Wrath and Classic Wrath as Olympic games. In reality, Classic is more like a little league sport. Or, hell, Wrath is MLB baseball, Classic is teeball.
    I'd actually argue both are effectively teeball.

    Being first in wrath meant nothing when it released, and means nothing now. And both times was cheesed by the same tactic.

    Being the first XLevel has always meant nothing in the game, and the person who cheated it is usually better remembered than the person who legitly did it. Only raid boss defeats are terribly well promoted or remembered.

    Classic vs Original isn't like Major League vs Little League though. The rules are more or less the same, and the players are of equivalent skill level and are drawing from the same scope of players.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Delekii View Post
    Every 100m sprint is its own race, not an entirely new creation whose mechanics haven't been worked out before. This is perhaps more analogous to a new server first, but certainly not world first level 80.
    World first is less interesting than realm firsts for sure, interesting in this case because he used an old exploit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delekii View Post
    What's with people celebrating nonsensical achievements thinking other people should give a shit about it too?
    Let people be happy, how about that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Delekii View Post
    Because it is without point. Like I said, it was first done over a decade before, each new time it is done on a new server is simply not the same thing. This matters no more than the server firsts that happened after the world first previously. You're assigning it subjective value, and that's fine, but it's ultimately on you.
    All achievements are pointless. The game is pointless. Why be particularily anal about this? Again, let people be happy, no need to try to inflict your own sadness onto others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delekii View Post
    Not at all, but you're making it out to matter more than it does. You're competing on a mathed out, tired circuit. Naowh didn't use a new method never seen before. He repeated a previous "achievement".
    I don't really care much about the world first in particular, I care about people trying to put other people down just because they're not interested in a thing. It's such a petty pathetic thing to do.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    This argument really is stupid beyond belief, do people who use it really think it does something?

    The effort people put in to get there first is what matters, not whether it's been done before.
    Concerting it’s the same method, there isn’t much effort.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by tomten View Post
    The TOS actually doesn't mean anything, you know that right? It doesn't matter in the real world, you cant enforce it by law for example.
    That point is not only wrong, it is disingenuous. The TOS is there to define what behavior is considered inappropriate. It's a warning. It's their game, it's their rules. Breaking them isn't going to send you to court. It's going to make you subject to the consequences as defined by Blizzard.

    The fact it is there is a matter of legality. It's to prevent them from being sued frivolously. They posted the rules. If you violate it, you agreed to be subject to the consequences by continuing to play.

    Whether the exploit was or was not there previously or is brand new is immaterial from the letter of their rules as well as the spirit. If they consider it an exploit, they will act accordingly. All this hemming and hawing on this thread about it is kind of strange to me. We don't make the rules, we don't enforce them, so ultimately we get zero say either way.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    Not sure if you're being obtuse on purpose but if you don't understand: Wrath of the Lich King (2010) and Classic Wrath are not the same thing. People who were 80 back then are not 80 still.
    You're right; people who were 80 back then are 60 now, and in shadowlands. You call it obtuse, but to consider it as such requires willful misrepresentation of fact. Classic Wrath is a recreation of Wrath, and functions nearly identically in every way that matters in the consideration of reaching 80 first.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    World first is less interesting than realm firsts for sure, interesting in this case because he used an old exploit.
    If it's an old exploit, it's not an exploit. It's interesting to me that you're willing to overlook the fact that Blizzard not only didn't fix the exploit, but moreover recreated it in their efforts to make classic wrath.

    Let people be happy, how about that?



    All achievements are pointless. The game is pointless. Why be particularily anal about this? Again, let people be happy, no need to try to inflict your own sadness onto others.
    You mean let people be happy.. in a manner that suits you, right?

    I'm sure that Naohw is particularly happy right now. Why are you attempting to impact on Naohw's happiness?

    I don't really care much about the world first in particular, I care about people trying to put other people down just because they're not interested in a thing. It's such a petty pathetic thing to do.
    Petty and pathetic is making a thread trying to undo the work of someone who got there first, because you don't believe they got there fairly, even though they used means that Blizzard not only didn't fix, but recreated.

    Every argument you level at me, I can level straight back at you. That's the issue with a subjective yardstick.
    Last edited by Delekii; 2022-09-28 at 04:07 PM.

  6. #46
    The private server and classic andys must be malding so hard that a retail player stole it from them.

    Just look up the wowhead twitter/comments and naowh's video, so much salt and drama for something so insignificant it's great.

  7. #47
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    I don't really see an issue and I'm just more surprised at how he was seemingly the only one to know/try/do it when it was apparantly known from original wrath.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Delekii View Post
    You're right; people who were 80 back then are 60 now, and in shadowlands. You call it obtuse, but to consider it as such requires willful misrepresentation of fact. Classic Wrath is a recreation of Wrath, and functions nearly identically in every way that matters in the consideration of reaching 80 first.
    So? It's a race, not a discovery.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delekii View Post
    If it's an old exploit, it's not an exploit. It's interesting to me that you're willing to overlook the fact that Blizzard not only didn't fix the exploit, but moreover recreated it in their efforts to make classic wrath.
    Not overlooking at all. It's shitty that it exists. They also didn't create Wrath from scratch if that's what you think for some ridiculous reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delekii View Post
    You mean let people be happy.. in a manner that suits you, right?

    I'm sure that Naohw is particularly happy right now. Why are you attempting to impact on Naohw's happiness?
    This is your idea of a counterargument? Yikes. I'm not lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delekii View Post
    Petty and pathetic is making a thread trying to undo the work of someone who got there first, because you don't believe they got there fairly, even though they used means that Blizzard not only didn't fix, but recreated.

    Every argument you level at me, I can level straight back at you. That's the issue with a subjective yardstick.
    Again, Blizzard obviously didn't fully recreate Wrath from scratch, that's an extremely ridiculous idea to have. Also, just because something someone else is doing is also petty and pathetic doesn't make what you're doing any less so.

    Yes you're correct, if you ignore the fact that counterarguments have to make sense, and actually dispute anything, you can just throw them at me.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    So? It's a race, not a discovery.

    Not overlooking at all. It's shitty that it exists. They also didn't create Wrath from scratch if that's what you think for some ridiculous reason.

    This is your idea of a counterargument? Yikes. I'm not lol.

    Again, Blizzard obviously didn't fully recreate Wrath from scratch, that's an extremely ridiculous idea to have. Also, just because something someone else is doing is also petty and pathetic doesn't make what you're doing any less so.

    Yes you're correct, if you ignore the fact that counterarguments have to make sense, and actually dispute anything, you can just throw them at me.
    Righto, so your argument is that the mechanical way that the game works that has been left in the game for over a decade still counts as an exploit, even though Blizzard has gone through the process of recreating the environment in which it exists, and could have changed it at any point.

    At this point you're just saying words. You try to pretend that what I am saying doesn't make sense, doesn't dispute what you are saying, and doesn't overtly discount the fact that you are arguing from a nonsensical position. Anyone who reads the thread can only come to the realization that the opposite is true.

    To support your position requires that you:
    1. Believe that something should be considered an exploit in perpetuity, without any clarification or confirmation from Blizzard, whose opinion is the only one that actually matters in the context.
    2. Believe that Blizzard can't or won't fix that exploit, but still consider it an exploit, even without the aforementioned clarification.
    3. Believe that other players tacitly agree with you regarding its status as an exploit.
    4. Believe that the impact of that exploit is important enough to warrant action from Blizzard to undo its impact on the "world first" that is actually world second world first.

    Then you have the temerity to accuse OTHER people of raining on YOUR parade. Boohoo. Let me pull out the world's tiniest parade. It is beyond ironic that you accuse others of pettiness.

    Here is the non-petty reaction to the situation:
    Pull up your bootstraps, accept that you lost, and next time play the game as it actually exists, not as you want it to exist.
    Last edited by Delekii; 2022-09-28 at 04:35 PM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by shise View Post
    Anyone who didn´t reach level cap alone, without any kind of help or exploit, doesnt really count tbh. So this dude does not count, for example
    Of course it counts, who came in 2nd place? Nobody knows and nobody will ever know. The only person you know is this guy.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Myradin View Post
    Wrath and Wrath Classic are not the same game though. Its 2 seperate races. Do olympic atheletes not get gold if someone beat their time the previous olympics?

    Or if someone discovered gravity in another universe, would people not care because newton discovered it in our universe?
    I knew that argument would actually came.

    The answer is still no. Because it isn't another universe. It's almost exactly the same thing. It isn't new, everything is well known since the beginning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    It is stupid. Nobody is saying they're doing it for the first time, people are saying they beat everyone else to the finish line. Literally no different than any other kind of race, or would you say football, sprint, nascar etc is pointless too because it's been done before? What matters is the people competing, not what they're competing in.
    Yes and I actually agree. But it wasn't "level 80 wotlk first", it's just "level 80 wotlk classic first".

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Aradur View Post
    World First happened 13 years ago, how are you talking about it today?
    there was no WotLK Classic 13 years ago. If there is a WoW Classic Remaster at some point, there will also be a Race to World first for each xpac/raid/etc again.

    If I remember correctly, Athene was banned for removing himself from the group in a dungeon, tagging all the monsters, and the other players killed the monsters. He was invited back to the group in time, just before the teleport.

    That a despawn exploit was used by Naowh is a hearsay. He simply had many supporters who helped him AoE away the monsters quickly.
    Last edited by Millyraynge; 2022-09-28 at 08:11 PM.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Millyraynge View Post
    there was no WotLK Classic 13 years ago. If there is a WoW Classic Remaster at some point, there will also be a Race to World first for each xpac/raid/etc again.

    If I remember correctly, Athene was banned for removing himself from the group in a dungeon, tagging all the monsters, and the other players killed the monsters. He was invited back to the group in time, just before the teleport.

    That a despawn exploit was used by Naowh is a hearsay. He simply had many supporters who helped him AoE away the monsters quickly.
    By that logic every new server that opens would be a worldwide event when someone first leveled to 60/70/80. It isn't because it's just a rerun. Like Classic WoW is. It's not the original and it will never be.
    Vanilla Good, TBC Bad, Wotlk Good, Cata Bad, MoP Good, WoD Bad, Legion Good, BfA Bad, SL Good, ??? Bad

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Yakut View Post
    That point is not only wrong, it is disingenuous. The TOS is there to define what behavior is considered inappropriate. It's a warning. It's their game, it's their rules. Breaking them isn't going to send you to court. It's going to make you subject to the consequences as defined by Blizzard.

    The fact it is there is a matter of legality. It's to prevent them from being sued frivolously. They posted the rules. If you violate it, you agreed to be subject to the consequences by continuing to play.

    Whether the exploit was or was not there previously or is brand new is immaterial from the letter of their rules as well as the spirit. If they consider it an exploit, they will act accordingly. All this hemming and hawing on this thread about it is kind of strange to me. We don't make the rules, we don't enforce them, so ultimately we get zero say either way.
    The thing is, in the real world? You can't just contract out of law and then you also have local laws. So the TOS doesn't really mean anything, you could call it a guidelines for their games or rules I suppose. There's things in there they couldn't enforce under EU law if tried, which wouldn't happen but just pointing it out.
    The bolded part is what matters end of the day, no action? No exploit.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by tomten View Post
    The thing is, in the real world? You can't just contract out of law and then you also have local laws. So the TOS doesn't really mean anything, you could call it a guidelines for their games or rules I suppose. There's things in there they couldn't enforce under EU law if tried, which wouldn't happen but just pointing it out.
    The bolded part is what matters end of the day, no action? No exploit.
    You can keep twisting it and ignoring it, but the facts are the facts. You agree to abide by Blizzard's terms every time you login. Whether or not you like those rules is immaterial. You agree to them when you play the game. Every time.

    Blizzard can enforce it within their game if they desire - they have demonstrated this an inordinate number of times. Has the EU government or judicial system stepped in and told them to reverse bans? Of course not. Has the US government stepped in and told them to reverse bans? Also, of course not. They're not going to, either. The users agreed to the terms in order to play the game.

    You may nitpick as you like, but that changes absolutely nothing of what I said nor the reality you face to that end. Your opinion, or even mine, on what they do, how they do it, or why they do it matters not. You can, of course, vote with your wallet and stop playing the game. But, you cannot change their behavior otherwise.

  16. #56
    I golf clapped a couple extra claps, to be honest
    LMAO

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Nephod View Post
    I'm not a fan of Naowh myself, but to call him a nobody is just bizarre. He's got plenty of world first mythic endboss kills from recent raids and has won everything you can think of when it comes to m+.

    It's like calling Messi a random football nobody, or Lebron a random basketball nobody. Like them or not; the statement makes you come off as bit sad. I hope you feel better than it seems

    On topic:
    Let them cheat. It's classic. The WotLK world first happened almost 14 years ago.
    i mean in the grand scale of things,athene was well known even outside the wow comunity,echo is niche even among the wow players,do you realise how tiny the world first is?and even among those,people care about the guild name,or the main guys,not some rando in the team,also really shity comparison with messi omg i cant even....jesus

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by tomten View Post
    If you keep reading, you'll also find out blizzard can terminate your account just because they feel like it.
    That would be direct fraud by them under any reasonable legislation. With severe consequences up to criminal punishment. And yes, it does not matter that you “agreed” to that tos term - again, under any reasonable legislation.

    - - - Updated - - -

    “ You agree to abide by Blizzard's terms every time you login”

    Only applicable to the extent permitted by applicable law. In any reasonable country consumer right protection acts protect you from any contract terms that might diminish your rights guaranteed by the law. So it basically does not matter what blizzard has in tos; if it contradicts with your law, it does not exist legally.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Beryfes View Post
    Thats official word from Blizzard's Support:
    You are responsible for how you and your account are represented in the game world. Cheating in any fashion will result in immediate action. Using third-party programs to automate any facet of the game, exploiting bugs, or engaging in any activity that grants an unfair advantage is considered cheating.


    It doesn't matter if you care or not about this situation. There are rules written by Blizzard that we all agree by playing game.


    And this is not the only single situation like this. What about druid's flying form in Northrend 15 minutes after WOTLK Classic relase? Who done realm first Herbalism?
    Blizzard didn't ban him sooooo apparently it was legit

  20. #60
    “ It's their game, it's their rules”

    No, it’s actually a commercial service where a customer pays for a quality product. If service is not provided, or quality is lacking, they would face consequences. Recalling 3 years worth of payments through your bank really isn’t hard, you don’t even have to sue them

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