Changes & Experiments to Raid Rewards in Dragonflight Season 1

[relaxok]

incredible changes that should have been in years ago.. fantastic

[Argorwal]

But it hasn't been a thing with PL.
Keep PL, remove trading restrictions and you immediately circumvent all problems that GL in PuGs could ever bring with it.

Isn’t PL just essentially the same as if everyone hit need in GL automatically?

To me the big difference is you can’t game the loot table with class stacking which is something I’ve hated for a while. A loot system that encourages class/armor stacking to me has been awful.

[cLax0n]

But it hasn't been a thing with PL.
Keep PL, remove trading restrictions and you immediately circumvent all problems that GL in PuGs could ever bring with it.

"*In the past, Need/Greed only knew if something was equippable or the right armor type, not if it was meant for your spec or not. This is now changed.

*First off, you can never Need for anything your class cannot wear. No warriors sniping cloth robes with a need roll and giving it away or trolling.

*We also have mainspec and offspec functionality built-in, which changes based on the current loot spec you set.

*Main spec takes priority, then Off spec, then greed. So while a Ret paladin can’t off-spec loot a shield away from a main-spec roll from the Tank, anyone rolling greed could never win it over them. This also means that if you swap specs for a specific fight, like going Holy, you can still main spec roll for your desired items if they come from that boss without having to worry about hurting yourself by being flexible to your group.

*Players won’t be able to win multiples of the same item - say that 2 sets of Shoulders drop. While you can roll Need on both of them, winning one will ‘remove’ your roll from the other.

*Additionally, players can’t Need on a piece of loot if they’re wearing the exact piece at the exact item level, though in the event where this occurs but the dropped piece has a Tertiary stat or Socket, that roll would be possible (as those are upgrades).

*Lastly, even after winning the roll, items remain fully tradeable without restrictions to any player that was eligible as a looter - as-in, if you weren’t locked to that boss previously. Inversely, this means that players who have already killed Boss 1 on Normal for the week can’t join for that boss and have loot traded to them (similarly, the need/greed pane won’t appear for that player)."


This is a direct quote from a blue post. The new group loot is better.

[Gasparde]

"*In the past, Need/Greed only knew if something was equippable or the right armor type, not if it was meant for your spec or not. This is now changed.

*First off, you can never Need for anything your class cannot wear. No warriors sniping cloth robes with a need roll and giving it away or trolling.

*We also have mainspec and offspec functionality built-in, which changes based on the current loot spec you set.

*Main spec takes priority, then Off spec, then greed. So while a Ret paladin can’t off-spec loot a shield away from a main-spec roll from the Tank, anyone rolling greed could never win it over them. This also means that if you swap specs for a specific fight, like going Holy, you can still main spec roll for your desired items if they come from that boss without having to worry about hurting yourself by being flexible to your group.

*Players won’t be able to win multiples of the same item - say that 2 sets of Shoulders drop. While you can roll Need on both of them, winning one will ‘remove’ your roll from the other.

*Additionally, players can’t Need on a piece of loot if they’re wearing the exact piece at the exact item level, though in the event where this occurs but the dropped piece has a Tertiary stat or Socket, that roll would be possible (as those are upgrades).

*Lastly, even after winning the roll, items remain fully tradeable without restrictions to any player that was eligible as a looter - as-in, if you weren’t locked to that boss previously. Inversely, this means that players who have already killed Boss 1 on Normal for the week can’t join for that boss and have loot traded to them (similarly, the need/greed pane won’t appear for that player)."


This is a direct quote from a blue post. The new group loot is better.

Man, thank god this absolutely intuitive loot system had to come with 6 asterisks to elaborate all the hidden bells, whistles and levers going on in the background.
And thank god these were only elaborated after the initial announcement painted a very unflattering picture.

They have a long history of releasing shitty systems with obvious and immediate flaws that remain ignored anyways. To then release another statement with obvious and immediate flaws, without further elaborating that they have addressed these flaws behind the scenes already... they had that backlash coming.

I'm still not convinced this system is gonna do away with loot drama or frustration, if anything I'm more worried that it's gonna get worse due to sheer quantity of loot now that bosses drop less, bonus rolls are gone and every item that drops is rolled on by 8 people. I'll remain reserved about GL over PL in PuGs, albeit slightly less infuriated.

[Relapses]

Man, thank god this absolutely intuitive loot system had to come with 6 asterisks to elaborate all the hidden bells, whistles and levers going on in the background.
And thank god these were only elaborated after the initial announcement painted a very unflattering picture.

They have a long history of releasing shitty systems with obvious and immediate flaws that remain ignored anyways. To then release another statement with obvious and immediate flaws, without further elaborating that they have addressed these flaws behind the scenes already... they had that backlash coming.

I'm still not convinced this system is gonna do away with loot drama or frustration, if anything I'm more worried that it's gonna get worse due to sheer quantity of loot now that bosses drop less, bonus rolls are gone and every item that drops is rolled on by 8 people. I'll remain reserved about GL over PL in PuGs, albeit slightly less infuriated.

To be fair, it seems like they're trying to explain that the system is essentially doing what PL did before... the main difference being that we can now see the rolls. And they've opened up the ability for all loot to be traded after the fact no matter what so it seems like if your preferred solution was PL with open trading that's essentially what this is. I still think it's a bit convoluted and they'd be better off giving players the choice but Blizzard's gonna Blizzard.

[Nymrohd]

With the clarifications I think this is OK. It's probably better than what we have. I hope need and greed choices are opaque to reduce player drama. I do think it was idiotic to publish that blog and call this group loot when the rules have evolved to such an extent that it is nothing like the group loot we originally had.

[Gasparde]

PL with open trading that's essentially what this is. I still think it's a bit convoluted

Exactly.

At one point they say "intuitive" and then they do this.
I'm pretty sure just removing trading restrictions would've been a lot more... intuitive.

And obviously, yes, a choice would've been splendid. Especially since their reasoning for getting rid of GL/ML in the first place was to combat the toxic abusive bullying loot stealing boogeyman guilds that were allegedly plaguing everyone's experience... and now we're just going back to that, but this time you don't even have a choice - fucking odd.

[Cracked]

To be fair, it seems like they're trying to explain that the system is essentially doing what PL did before... the main difference being that we can now see the rolls. And they've opened up the ability for all loot to be traded after the fact no matter what so it seems like if your preferred solution was PL with open trading that's essentially what this is. I still think it's a bit convoluted and they'd be better off giving players the choice but Blizzard's gonna Blizzard.

No, because under PL, the loot that actually drops depends on the classes and specs present at the time of kill. With group loot, the boss dies and a number of items from his loot table are randomly dropped. No regard for who is present. As a classic wow andy, this is how it should be. Loot in RPGs should not depend on how you built your characters or raid comps. Sadly we've seen a departure from that, because RPGs became so simplistic that aiming for and even knowing what full bis is became the norm.

[Relapses]

No, because under PL, the loot that actually drops depends on the classes and specs present at the time of kill. With group loot, the boss dies and a number of items from his loot table are randomly dropped. No regard for who is present. As a classic wow andy, this is how it should be. Loot in RPGs should not depend on how you built your characters or raid comps. Sadly we've seen a departure from that, because RPGs became so simplistic that aiming for and even knowing what full bis is became the norm.

One could argue with the ability for players to "opt-out" of the rolls that the potential for non-wasted loot is higher than it was with PL even if PL technically dropped more items. I think this system is the better way forward but I still contend that the option for PL should be there for groups who would prefer not to see how the sausage is made.