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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Mamut View Post
    Yeah sure, lets ignore all other things DF is bringing and just focus on this part. And to be fair the UI changes are unironically pretty big feature for people who do not want to mess with addons. Alot of QoL stuff is being added but there always must be people like you who trashtalk even positive changes because you know "Blizz is bad hur dur".
    my point was that using "customise your UI" as part of the main expansion feature list speaks to how the expansion really does lack in the feature department.

    Just compare it to previous expansions and it shows - new race/class, zones, raids, dungeons, quests, profession changes and a few other changes are all the basic parts of expansions and blizzard has done before, so what else is there about DF? dragon flying and...? ya the talent revamp is really good, but they've done major talent system changes before for expansions.

    And yes, you can say getting a new class, race, talents, zones and w.e is exciting and all, but blizzard have done most or all of that before in an expansion and said expansion has had more features as well on top of that. As I said in my previous post, the issue with big expansion features of the past were not the systems themselves, it was blizzard tying them so much to player power/progression and abandoning them completely after a single expansion (or even just after a patch).

    also I never said the UI feature itself was a bad thing or was "trash talking" it (w.e that means). Don't put words into my mouth. And no, me pointing out that DF's lacking features does not mean I think the expansion is going to be shit or that things they are doing are bad or w.e, don't try and twist things into "oh you're just a hater" -_-

    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    The UI change is one of the strongest features of DF - and I believe it's just the start of many small touches.
    the fact that one of DF's "strongest features" (as you put it) is a freaking QoL improvement speaks to how the expansion is lacking in features. Customising UI is a patch feature at most, not a highlight on the box expansion feature.

    and ya, we probably will see more QoL improvements like it, that's really good. I was never saying anything about the change itself as it is a great thing for the game to be as playable as possible without addons.
    Last edited by voidox; 2022-09-30 at 10:19 PM.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by voidox View Post
    my point was that using "customise your UI" as part of the main expansion feature speaks to how the expansion really does lack in the feature department, compare it to previous expansions.
    But every expansion had something similar in the feature reveal.
    Like WotLK had "Changeable hairstyles" and "New Dances" mentioned. Obviously WotLK was also lacking in features if they used freaking dancing and barber as a main expansion feature.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by voidox View Post
    my point was that using "customise your UI" as part of the main expansion feature list speaks to how the expansion really does lack in the feature department.

    Just compare it to previous expansions and it shows - new race/class, zones, raids, dungeons, quests, profession changes and a few other changes are all the basic parts of expansions and blizzard has done before, so what else is there about DF? dragon flying and...? ya the talent revamp is really good, but they've done major talent system changes before for expansions.

    And yes, you can say getting a new class, race, talents, zones and w.e is exciting and all, but blizzard have done most or all of that before in an expansion and said expansion has had more features as well on top of that. As I said in my previous post, the issue with big expansion features of the past were not the systems themselves, it was blizzard tying them so much to player power/progression and abandoning them completely after a single expansion (or even just after a patch).

    also I never said the UI feature itself was a bad thing or was "trash talking" it (w.e that means). Don't put words into my mouth.



    the fact that one of DF's "strongest features" (as you put it) is a freaking QoL improvement speaks to how the expansion is lacking in features. Customising UI is a patch feature at most, not a highlight on the box expansion feature.

    and ya, we probably will see more QoL improvements like it, that's really good. I was never saying anything about the change itself as it is a great thing for the game to be as playable as possible without addons.
    It's all relative.

    If you expected some new graphics engine - sure, I understand the disappointment.

    I think QoL is far better investment, than all of the features combined since Legion.
    Last edited by HansOlo; 2022-09-30 at 10:23 PM.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Mamut View Post
    Like WotLK had "Changeable hairstyles" and "New Dances" mentioned. Obviously WotLK was also lacking in features if they used freaking dancing and barber as a main expansion feature.
    stuff like "changeable hairstyles" and "new dances" are not QoL changes, they are actual new content and features the game never had before. Character customization is a huge feature of the game that many people love and use all the time. Quite different to "can now customise the UI", as many people aren't even going to want to customise their UI/use addons, and it's a QoL feature as a I said.

    Furthermore, Wrath had much more than just those - 11 new zones, introduction to many new game features/systems, 12 dungeons iirc on release, new bgs, wintergrasp, first hero class, entire new profession (inscription), heirlooms, achievements and so on.

    And no, not going to directly compare them anymore cause wrath came out 10 years ago and DF is 2022, there's a difference and expectation there with DF. DF is basically just very basic when it comes to features/content - raiding, dungeons, pvp and not much else.

    But every expansion had something similar in the feature reveal.
    true, and every expansion had a whole host of additional features, while DF is lacking in features.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    It's all relative.

    If you expected some new graphics engine - sure, I understand the disappointment.
    no, I expected Blizzard to have at least as many features as previous expansions had, instead of the main content/features of the expansion just being the basic stuff of m+/raid/pvp that all other expansions, yet they had much more stuff.

    Just because the devs are communicating more and not introducing more stupid player progression systems, doesn't mean we should just accept the bare minimum and be paying the same. We should expect them to be introducing new and fun features that aren't tied to player power - think like Torghast without the stupid grind/parts, pvp warfronts and so on.

    I think QoL is far better investment, than all of the features combined since Legion
    uh, so you think having QoL is a better investment than actual new content and features to play with? ... okay, you do you with that buddy o.o
    Last edited by voidox; 2022-09-30 at 10:39 PM.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by voidox View Post
    stuff like "changeable hairstyles" and "new dances" are not QoL changes, they are actual new content

    uh, so you think having QoL is a better investment than actual new content and features to play with? ... okay o.o

    true, and every expansion had a whole host of additional features, while DF is lacking in features.
    There were dances in the game already so it wasn't new content.
    And DF doesn't lack new features. You just chose to ignore them because "previous expansions had something similar".

    And yes, I prefer QoL changes over content like "new dances" or "hairstyles".

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Mamut View Post
    There were dances in the game already so it wasn't new content.
    And DF doesn't lack new features. You just chose to ignore them because "previous expansions had something similar".
    new dances added to game = new stuff you can do, that's literally new content. Also, wrath had a lot more than just that as I've already gone over.

    and yes, DF does lack features as I've already gone over in detail. You are completely ignoring my post to cherry pick a single line and strawman what I'm saying -_-

    I'm not "ignoring" them, I'm pointing out that DF has the same basic set of features as previous expansions, and nothing more, is the definition of lacking new features. Those expansions had those same set of basic features + a lot more. I've already gone over this.

    And yes, I prefer QoL changes over content like "new dances" or "hairstyles".
    where in the world am I comparing QoL changes with the new dances/hairstyle? wat? stop making up your own argument in your head if you want to keep replying to me, jesus. This has nothing to do with what I'm saying on DF lacking features.

    and fyi, the person I was replying to said: "I think QoL is far better investment, than all of the features combined since Legion."... do you agree with that? like he wants QoL changes over ALL the features since legion? like what? does this dude just not want any new content/features at all or something o.o
    Last edited by voidox; 2022-09-30 at 10:52 PM.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by voidox View Post
    stuff like "changeable hairstyles" and "new dances" are not QoL changes, they are actual new content and features the game never had before. Character customization is a huge feature of the game that many people love and use all the time. Quite different to "can now customise the UI", as many people aren't even going to want to customise their UI/use addons, and it's a QoL feature as a I said.

    no, I expected Blizzard to have at least as many features as previous expansions had, instead of real basic stuff only.

    uh, so you think having QoL is a better investment than actual new content and features to play with? ... okay o.o
    I definitely agree. We keep getting fewer zones, fewer questlines, and fewer systems updated. We should be expecting QoL alongside content that should be comparable to previous generations. QoL should definitely be a general update and not a box feature. Maintaining and updating the quality of the game is the sub fee. It's a general improvement to stay relevant again the current market. Not an expansion feature.

    It's really weird that they released the UI customization in such a mediocre state as it's far weaker to its main competitor (FFXIV) or an addon made over a decade ago. A system improvement should be comparable to its competitors, not fundamentally weaker and boasted as a main feature.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    The point was never to replace addons? Why would they get of the community assets? Addons and thier creators are the biggest contribution to the game and the community. It's basicly programmers working for free.

    The point was that people should ALSO be able to play without addons. The only thing we need is a DPS/HPS meter. Again - they won't and they shouldn't want to compete against addons creators.

    The UI change is one of the strongest features of DF - and I believe it's just the start of many small touches.
    ive had a UI add on for over ten years. if this is one of the strongest features then fuck me. UI upgrade is on comparison to the selfie camera. worthless at a time when the game needs something great. this is not it.

  9. #129
    Still no clue, who is the end boss....

  10. #130
    Probably the least excited about this expansion but will try it out launch days are usually fun if you can get into the servers.
    Do you hear the voices too?

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by ParanoiD84 View Post
    Probably the least excited about this expansion but will try it out launch days are usually fun if you can get into the servers.
    I have always gotten on my server with no problems.

  12. #132
    Titan Al Gorefiend's Avatar
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    I wonder if this is the peak of WoWs graphics potential. The game still more or less looks like MoP level graphics with improvements to animations for player characters. I guess back when I was playing WoW in 2010, I always daydreamed how good the graphics would be a decade from now, guess they would never grow to change much since then.

    Animations have certainly gotten better anyway.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by voidox View Post
    no, I expected Blizzard to have at least as many features as previous expansions had, instead of the main content/features of the expansion just being the basic stuff of m+/raid/pvp that all other expansions, yet they had much more stuff.

    Just because the devs are communicating more and not introducing more stupid player progression systems, doesn't mean we should just accept the bare minimum and be paying the same. We should expect them to be introducing new and fun features that aren't tied to player power - think like Torghast without the stupid grind/parts, pvp warfronts and so on.

    uh, so you think having QoL is a better investment than actual new content and features to play with? ... okay, you do you with that buddy o.o
    Quote Originally Posted by craigw View Post
    ive had a UI add on for over ten years. if this is one of the strongest features then fuck me. UI upgrade is on comparison to the selfie camera. worthless at a time when the game needs something great. this is not it.
    Why do people think 'more' content equals better game(they tried many times - it didn't work out). It's like adding more content to Fifa or CS - it doesn't make these games better necessarily. The expected formula should be new raids, dungeons, class balancing and a good story - they don't have to do more - but really excel these domains.

    Also - It's not YOU who are the important - it's the game itself in DF. The accessibility for new people is what matters for them - so that the game can survive. From a buisness standpoint - obviously new people shouldn't be forced to download 20 addons only to feel intimidated. And people who are doing tournaments, also have easier time, as addons are not allowed(this motivates competitive people).

    We will have more changes in the future(and I hope for some integrated DPS/HPS meter).

    DF for me represents a fresh direction, something that was necessary. Good times.
    Last edited by HansOlo; 2022-10-02 at 03:57 AM.

  14. #134
    Stood in the Fire
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    I hope they wont screw up like they did in shadowlands.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    I have always gotten on my server with no problems.
    Yeah sl where much better when it comes to getting in without massive queues so hoping it's the same.
    Do you hear the voices too?

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    Why do people think 'more' content equals better game(they tried many times - it didn't work out). It's like adding more content to Fifa or CS - it doesn't make these games better necessarily. The expected formula should be new raids, dungeons, class balancing and a good story - they don't have to do more - but really excel these domains.
    uh, no one is saying that. You are completely missing the point we are making.

    and side note on this, just cause they tried and failed doesn't mean they should not bother with more content. Ya it needs to be good content, but that's a separate thing - anything in a game needs to be good, including the "expected formula" you described.

    we should not be sitting back and accepting the bare minimum for an expansion, especially when we're paying the same, just cause the devs fcked up the past 2 expansions. We should be demanding better from them and the devs should be doing better in giving us good content that is more than just the basics.

    Also - It's not YOU who are the important - it's the game itself in DF.
    wat?

    The accessibility for new people is what matters for them - so that the game can survive. From a buisness standpoint - obviously new people shouldn't be forced to download 20 addons only to feel intimidated. And people who are doing tournaments, also have easier time, as addons are not allowed(this motivates competitive people).
    uh, what? you seriously have no idea what we're talking about do you o.o

    why are you trying to move the goalposts to these completely irrelevant stuff - bringing up accessibility, tournaments, addons and such that have nothing to do with the fact that DF is seriously lacking in features compared to past expansions.

    We will have more changes in the future(and I hope for some integrated DPS/HPS meter).
    this is a separate thing, and as I said before, I don't mind the "customise UI" QoL improvement itself at all. It's a good thing and more QoL improvements in the future would be great to see.

    But as I've repeated over and over, that's not my point of how QoL improvements are not expansion features and DF is lacking features/content. Dunno how many times I have to go in circles with you on this mate, seriously -_-

    DF for me represents a fresh direction, something that was necessary. Good times.
    lul, the "fresh direction" of an expansion made up of nothing but the absolute basics of wow's endgame. Cool.
    Last edited by voidox; 2022-10-03 at 11:00 PM.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    Except for all those dailies that had people upset. And the cloak questline which had people malding.

    As I said- both of these were completely irrelevant to power progression.

    Dailies would give you just 1 early epic item.

    Cloak- well yeah, it was powerful. But it wasn't game-changer. And it was done suuuuuuper fast. Actually, I liked it. Far better than legion/sl "legendary" system.
    But still would pref TBC system (1 legendary thats potential drop from end-game boss).

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    So they are completely irrelevant to power progression, except for those time(s) that they were directly tied to power progression? Sure ok.

    Also the legendary cloak literally took the entire expansion to receive...And you just said MoP was the ''golden era'', now you say you prefer TBC? You are all over the place friend.

    Epic items were relevant to power progression?
    Killed cleared up until Paragons HC (before mythic was even launched) without cloak on 2 chars. With an ease.

    Having "powerful legendary" (anything up until Legion) and having "borrowed power" legendary/artifact item are 2 different things.

    Yes. MOP was golden era. The fact that I pref legendary items to be super rare doesn't lower the value of MOP at all.

    MOP cloak was obtained solely by doing the raid once a week (which is considered as "main end-game content" in WOW that drives the story forward). And it had MASSIVE catch-up mechanism.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    I wasn't intending on replying to this anymore, but it's like you try to make everything you say wrong. How tf are epic items at the start of an expansion not tied to power progression?? That's like saying what does water have to do with being wet...Who the hell is talking about borrowed powers btw? and the MoP cloak questline was a LOT more than just ''doing the raid once a week". It was a very involved and long quest line that included doing many different things, including doing PVP and BGs for a couple of the 17 quests one had to do in order to complete it finally.

    Because you can get very same epic items in raid. Getting them from daily quests was just an extra item. Nothing more. If you decided to NOT do dailies, you'd still get more epics (even better) from raid.

    Get the difference now between mop dailies and anything post legion?

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