Poll: As short and as simple as put What is the root of Evil?

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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    The root of all evil is probably turnips, they suck.
    Heh alright firstly, I concede the point that you made a joke and it's funny - I'm not being pretentious here insofar as I can't acknowledge that absent any context, the quoted statement could be taken pretty self-seriously.

    But, having said that, no it's not like some circular reasoning hibbidy jibbidy. I *am* a moral relativist, but that just means that I view morality, ethics, good, evil, etc etc as being relative to the people who decide what is moral, ethical, good, and evil.
    Different cultures have different ideas what is and isn't acceptable, or what is or isn't evil, and I like to kind of make a stand on the topic in any kind of philosophical discussion because most people assume that "good" and "evil" are concepts you can apply to the physical structure of the universe, and I disagree with that concept.

  2. #22
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    High I.Q
    An "IQ" test is testing for general knowledge and not for intelligence though, so I don't see the point in talking about an "intelligence" quotient. The concept of IQ as it was originally conceived is misguided as far I can tell.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    will almost never prevent ones one emotions from playing a factor in their choices, even if it's less often. And less often doesn't really determine the proportions of how wrong or stupidity of such actions.
    Yeah I think emotions are just a guess in regards to how you should be feeling and modelling the world. Currently I don't think it's possible for a human to be conscious without emotions playing a factor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    I think in terms for example Skynet, this self aware massive computer A.I that at some point after becoming self aware turns on it's human master. But you see the real haunting thing about this dilemma is really not one ever explored.

    It's not that Skynet was this super computer A.I that for all it's possibility didn't love us or care about humanity, but that this Skynet Super Computer DID love us and then became to HATE us too!

    Skynet can be super intelligent, but with the self aware that comes with being intelligence, comes the emotions to care one way or another.

    An A.I like Skynet can be super intelligent just like a human albeit more so, but like any human it makes choices. Skynet might just simply be a Psychopath. Just as a Human could be or a Human that makes a choice for all the reasons people make stupid choices. Love, Hate etc...
    Artificial general super-intelligence is a very long ways away but when it is created in the future it won't initially be good or bad(a psychopath) in the same way that a human baby isn't automatically going to be a good or bad person in a pre-set manner. Whether or not a baby turns into a good or bad person will depend mostly on the culture that surrounds the baby throughout its lifetime, and whether or not an AGI/ASI becomes good or evil will also depend on the quality of the culture that effects the running AGI program through the computer's input-output mechanism.
    Last edited by PC2; 2022-10-01 at 01:21 AM.

  3. #23
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I'm skeptical of the claim that all evil is rooted in ego and self-importance because when I think about some terrorists such as jihadi suicide bombers I don't get the sense that their evil actions were motivated by their ego or self-importance. In fact I kind of think the opposite because it seems like they are more altruistic in the sense that they think their religion/god is the main thing that matters and that their personal self-importance and ego should be sacrificed because that's what their god desires.
    Still ego because they think they will be rewarded for their transgressions instead of just taking the standard reward of their faith. "Maybe if I blow up these people I can gain a little bit extra in heaven". It's ego.

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  4. #24
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilist74 View Post
    Everything in the universe is trying to destroy or consume everything in the universe. How could there not be evil in that? I would not really call anything evil though. I would say reactions are either positive or negative depending on your position and the outcome.
    Is the nature of the Universe a conscience thing, because if not, I don't think I can say I agree with your perspective as much as I find it very compelling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malkiah View Post
    As a moral relativist I reject the notion of "evil" because that implies some kind of objective universal standard, so technically I'd say the root of evil is the imagination because evil doesn't exist.
    But that's cheating the question, isn't it?

    The root cause of everything repugnant in human society is the failure of humans to act on current information instead of acting on instinct that was developed for a world that no longer exists.
    Greed and corruption are the product of a brain that still thinks it's 50,000 BC and we're on the verge of starving all the time so need to desperately hoard every scrap of anything we can get our hands on.
    Avarice and cruelty to others are social instincts to "shoot first and ask questions later" when it comes to anything that isn't part of our tribe.
    The state of the world has changed vastly more rapidly than evolution can keep up with, so basically humans are not genetically aligned with the world that we live in, we've got all these instincts and ingrained behaviors that are no longer relevant and most people are too benightedly fucking stupid to recognize that and make the choice to alter their thinking and behavior accordingly.
    Most humans are just chimps in a zoo with a cognition AI patched in - there's no volition to most people, no real sense of awareness or self, no introspection or intuitive processing about the nature of reality. There's a 100,000 year old instinct to violently hurl your shit at anything shaped like a snake in case it might be a snake, and most modern humans are just doing that except also trying to slap some kind of justification on top of it because their conscious mind wants to have an excuse for their behavior that makes it their choice.

    As for mental health and homelessness, well that's easy:
    Homelessness exists because it is the gun pointed at the head of the working class. It's the threat that those with money use to say "don't ask for too much, don't expect too much, don't think too hard about what you're worth as a human life or a member of society, because we can turn you into THAT at any time."
    Keep a large and robust homeless population around so that they're everywhere and all the working stiffs have to see them all the time and the working stiffs will never get too uppity, in order to prevent themselves from becoming homeless.
    It's not an accident or an act of neglect, a teeming mass of homeless miserable people are a necessary component of a capitalist society.

    The mental health thing is a combination of all of the above... bad upbringing in a shitty world makes for unstable people. And, there's no selectivity in breeding anymore in humans, certainly not on the basis of healthy genes. We've been systematically breeding ourselves into retardation for hundreds if not thousands of years, so that sort of thing is only going to get worse as time goes on.
    Are you cheating the question? Absolutely not


    But not because I agree with mostly what you said, but because of your break down and process. You provided a specific perspective. The reason or inspiration for my question really is because of the world around we see and that the choices people make regardless to empirical evidence especially for the greater good, rather than say utopia.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    An "IQ" test is testing for general knowledge and not for intelligence though, so I don't see the point in talking about an "intelligence" quotient. The concept of IQ as it was originally conceived is misguided as far I can tell.

    No this is not true at all, and despite what some attribute what it means, the basic over all premise is rock solid.


    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    Yeah I think emotions are just a guess in regards to how you should be feeling and modelling the world. Currently I don't think it's possible for a human to be conscious without emotions playing a factor.
    Nothing wrong with emotion except when they eclipse the greater good for all possible.


    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    Artificial general super-intelligence is a very long ways away but when it is created in the future it won't initially be good or bad(a psychopath) in the same way that a human baby isn't automatically going to be a good or bad person in a pre-set manner. Whether or not a baby turns into a good or bad person will depend mostly on the culture that surrounds the baby throughout its lifetime, and whether or not an AGI/ASI becomes good or evil will also depend on the quality of the culture that effects the running AGI program through the computer's input-output mechanism.
    You could be wrong of it being way off but artificial intelligence can never be truly aware unless it has emotions and the ability to choose, which means we have no control. Emotions aren't logical and at times can overrule logic or sound reason. For good and bad.

    But a being without the power to make a real choice is a slave IMO.
    #ANTIFA "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  5. #25
    I'd say fear. Fear of losing a loved one, fear of running out of resources, fear of being judged or rejected... that about covers all the poll replies. People turn evil when they are afraid.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Hotmail View Post
    I'd say fear. Fear of losing a loved one, fear of running out of resources, fear of being judged or rejected... that about covers all the poll replies. People turn evil when they are afraid.
    You can spin this back to some form of "greed" though. The only reason someone fears lack of food is because they fear death. Because they're selfish/greedy and think they're so important they deserve to keep living by whatever means necessary.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    You can spin this back to some form of "greed" though. The only reason someone fears lack of food is because they fear death. Because they're selfish/greedy and think they're so important they deserve to keep living by whatever means necessary.
    That'd be one hell of a spin. Are you trying to argue that survival is not a good enough reason to fear running out of food?

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    As short and as simple as put What is the root of Evil?


    What is the source of corruption?


    Why is suffering such as homelessness, and mental illness so great?


    I'd say I lived a while, and without pontificating or preaching or anything like that, just from an honest even if brutally is the reason that despite knowledge or intelligence, some would still choose wrong. I mean this mostly as a question for as brief as possible responses, with as much honesty and less knee jerk of reactions as possible.
    Define "Evil". What is Evil (though it is a bad and childish word to define something) at an era what maybe not at another. Like slavery, it is frown upon today but was considered "normal" by most people (well, except the slaves themselves, I guess) during the Roman Empire.

  9. #29
    Lots of roots for evil. But we only go indepth, or try to read minds when actions are committed to determine evil.

  10. #30
    Self-interest probably, it's more encompassing than just greed. It's a term that includes ignorance - "the only truth is my own", fear - "anything different from me must be feared" and hate - "anything different from me must be hated". All are important features of what I'd call evil.
    "In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance." Paradox of tolerance

  11. #31
    The Lightbringer Hansworst's Avatar
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    Endus already gave the answer: it's self-interest.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Hotmail View Post
    That'd be one hell of a spin. Are you trying to argue that survival is not a good enough reason to fear running out of food?
    I'm saying the desire to live is inherently selfish or self-interested. Thus, any resulting fear is just perpetuated by that self-interest or "greed."

  13. #33
    We are a conscience representative of the universe and we are no different than anything else in the universe except that we are aware of it. We kill or be killed just like everything else in the universe.

  14. #34
    LEFTISM or more specifically the infantilizing idea that only revolutionary change can save the world

  15. #35

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    I'm saying the desire to live is inherently selfish or self-interested. Thus, any resulting fear is just perpetuated by that self-interest or "greed."
    Self-interest is not necessarily greed. Amassing more food than you need to live would be greed, but simply amassing what you need to get by is not.

    Some people turn to greed because they are afraid of running out of resources, making Fear the true root here.

    Quote Originally Posted by NED funded View Post
    LEFTISM or more specifically the infantilizing idea that only revolutionary change can save the world
    Last edited by Hotmail; 2022-10-02 at 05:30 AM.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    An "IQ" test is testing for general knowledge and not for intelligence though, so I don't see the point in talking about an "intelligence" quotient. The concept of IQ as it was originally conceived is misguided as far I can tell.
    That's some low IQ cope there.

    On Topic - yeah Self interest is pretty much the answer, as has already been stated.

  18. #38
    buddhist's believe suffering is caused by desire, I dunno if there is an over arching evil, bad things happen, its doesn't necessarily mean that there is some sort of force behind it. chaos theory maybe. randomness and entropy play a part in bad things happening. the buddhists are probably right ultimately the struggle for survival creates desire and there will always be a winner and a loser. this is probably just innate and or universal. this is one of the reasons as to why I'm not convinced that there is a universal right and wrong, beyond our own imagination of it. or at least doing what we have to, to maintain a status quo. on a universal scale its not clear. like taoism the universe just does whatever the hell it wants we're all just along for the ride.
    Last edited by Heathy; 2022-10-02 at 07:53 AM.

  19. #39
    Selfishness. All "evil" is a fundamentally selfish, self-serving action.

    Whether it is the kind of selfishness that is found in your pleasure at the sake of others, your sense of power over others, a feeling of control, emotional release, etc.

    I just saw a video earlier today where a woman lit the candles on her son's birthday cake. She began singing happy birthday.

    The father disapproved and beat her in front the child. As the child mimicked this behavior and struck the mother.

    All evil comes from thinking and doing what pleases you without regard for others.

    To be evil is to be selfish. Nothing else.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2022-10-02 at 11:44 PM.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post

    To be evil is to be selfish. Nothing else.
    Surely its the desire to dominate others that is evil. The petite fascism in the heart of all men.

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