What is the root of Evil?

[Fencers]

Surely its the desire to dominate others that is evil. The petite fascism in the heart of all men.

Yeah, that is selfish. To want to dominate others is a selfish desire.

[BeepBoo]

My issue with the "selfish" or "self-interest" take is that you can't get rid of it in it's entirety and solve the problem, because if you get rid of absolutely all self-interest, you get rid of self preservation and nearly all other forms of self-identity, because you cannot have those things without caring about yourself or your continued existence.

What do you care if you die, so long as you're helping someone else? What do you care about having a favorite color? Without self-interest, you'd never want to put whatever your favorite color is on anything because you just want to put someone else's favorite color on everything so THEY'RE happy.

When I think of the root of all evil, I think of something that, if deleted 100% in its entirety, would result in the outright removal of all evil while still retaining actual humanity; preferences, desires, individualism, free thinking, and all.

[Endus]

My issue with the "selfish" or "self-interest" take is that you can't get rid of it in it's entirety and solve the problem, because if you get rid of absolutely all self-interest, you get rid of self preservation and nearly all other forms of self-identity, because you cannot have those things without caring about yourself or your continued existence.

What do you care if you die, so long as you're helping someone else? What do you care about having a favorite color? Without self-interest, you'd never want to put whatever your favorite color is on anything because you just want to put someone else's favorite color on everything so THEY'RE happy.

When I think of the root of all evil, I think of something that, if deleted 100% in its entirety, would result in the outright removal of all evil while still retaining actual humanity; preferences, desires, individualism, free thinking, and all.

When you're putting your self-interest ahead of the needs of others. That gets summed up as "self-interest" because ignoring the needs of others to focus on your own needs is literally what "self-interest" boils down to.

That's why we say "self-interest", not "self-preservation" or "meeting your own needs". Self-interest as opposed to the alternative.

Take a look at Star Trek's Federation, as an idealized example. There's little self-interest that surmounts societal/communal interests, and where it does, it's usually very bad, or the character's maligned for it. Take Quark, on DS9; he comes off as entirely self-interested but it becomes pretty clear over the show he has deeper ties to family and his local community than he likes to let on. And for that, we can enjoy him as a character. If he didn't have those feelings, he'd be a villain, without virtues to appeal to.

None of us are an island, and none of us are more important than the community which supports us all. That's the root of why crime is a concept, in the first place.

We're also talking about what's the root of evil. Self-interest just by itself isn't (generally) enough. But if you dig deep enough, it's always there at the core.

[Fencers]

Self-preservation isn't selfishness. Selfishness is your desires & needs without regard for others.

The default state of mankind, to borrow a term from Rawls, is communal. The opposite is terminal to us.

"If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together."

[BeepBoo]

When you're putting your self-interest ahead of the needs of others. That gets summed up as "self-interest" because ignoring the needs of others to focus on your own needs is literally what "self-interest" boils down to.

I'm more of a black and white kinda person. Give me something that I can remove entirely or not at all. Self-interest doesn't cut it. Where does it turn from "meeting my needs" to "selfishness?"

If I have a meager abode with enough food to survive?
How many kids can I have before it becomes more of a burden to the community and thus shifts to me just being selfish wanting to surround myself with my own family while demanding the "community" meet our needs?
If I spend my time toiling to make myself a fancy red carpet instead of making sheets for someone else in the community when they need sheets and I don't need a carpet, does that qualify?
Once everyone's basic needs are met, how much of my time can I devote towards my own desires? etc.

It lacks a lot and relies on some kind of random line in the sand that sways with each person's interpretation for what is an acceptable level before it deteriorates into evil.

To me, even demanding the community take care of you when you can't is selfish. It's something I'd never do, as I'm far too proud. When I'm too old, if I don't have anyone to willingly take care of me, I'd rather die. As it is right now, even IF someone wants to care for my old and broken body, I'd still probably opt to die. I can tell you if I got something that was a huge burden to my wife, like paralysis, even if she wanted me to live and was willing to care for me, I'd probably commit suicide because I cannot stand the thought of being someone who is so incapable that I need more than I can give. The point I stop being a net-positive, as far as ability and potential goes, is the point I'll effectively be dead anyways. Communities need people who can give to the community. Who can actually do things to fill needs of others. It doesn't need dead weight.

[Endus]

I'm more of a black and white kinda person. Give me something that I can remove entirely or not at all. Self-interest doesn't cut it. Where does it turn from "meeting my needs" to "selfishness?"

When you put your needs ahead of the needs of others. Is this a trick question?

If I have a meager abode with enough food to survive?
How many kids can I have before it becomes more of a burden to the community and thus shifts to me just being selfish wanting to surround myself with my own family while demanding the "community" meet our needs?
If I spend my time toiling to make myself a fancy red carpet instead of making sheets for someone else in the community when they need sheets and I don't need a carpet, does that qualify?
Once everyone's basic needs are met, how much of my time can I devote towards my own desires? etc.

Where did you ever get the idea that any of the above would qualify as "evil"? Contributing to the community by having children and being part of that community is a demonstration of community interest. And nothing about this framed fulfilling your own needs as "evil", either. Unless that comes at the expense of others. If you're having lavish dinners while your neighbours starve, for instance.

And again; we're talking about the central root of evil, not the full summation of the entire concept.

To me, even demanding the community take care of you when you can't is selfish.

That's a statement that does not make sense. Human communities have been caring for members in need for longer than Homo Sapiens has been a species. Lacking this kind of basic empathy is literally a symptom of mental illness.

[BeepBoo]

When you put your needs ahead of the needs of others. Is this a trick question?

Let's take my rug example and go a bit more extreme since I don't think it crossed your threshold for "too selfish". What if I focus on building myself a bigger house when someone in the community is expecting an other child and they need the room more?

What if what the community needs is more farmers but I spend my time doing something else I'd rather be doing that also contributes to the community's needs? What if I'm capable of working but I just don't want to work or don't work?

Contributing to the community by having children and being part of that community is a demonstration of community interest.

The only reason anyone ever has kids in the first place is because they're egotistical enough to think they'll even make someone good, so it's inherently selfish IMO. If you don't have kids thinking you're going to make a good example of a human, you're not thinking about it hard enough IMO.

And again; we're talking about the central root of evil, not the full summation of the entire concept.

That's fair, just not to my taste for reasons stated. Hypocrisy fills that whole "removal in entirety" thing quite well.

Lacking this kind of basic empathy is literally a symptom of mental illness.

Symptoms, especially single symptoms, do not a diagnosis make. Almost everything that is some form of symptom can be a symptom of cancer, for instance.

[Endus]

Let's take my rug example and go a bit more extreme since I don't think it crossed your threshold for "too selfish". What if I focus on building myself a bigger house when someone in the community is expecting an other child and they need the room more?

There is clearly a point where that attitude becomes intentional evil, and I'm really not interested in a silly game of trying to find a precise point, which is a fool's errand. If you live in a mansion while people go homeless, that's "evil", and you're a terrible person. Yes, that covers basically all rich people. That's not an error.

The only reason anyone ever has kids in the first place is because they're egotistical enough to think they'll even make someone good, so it's inherently selfish IMO.

That's completely ridiculous and does not in any way describe the human drive to procreate. Like, I can't believe you actually said that out loud. It's baffling.

[BeepBoo]

There is clearly a point where that attitude becomes intentional evil, and I'm really not interested in a silly game of trying to find a precise point, which is a fool's errand. If you live in a mansion while people go homeless, that's "evil", and you're a terrible person. Yes, that covers basically all rich people. That's not an error.

By housing standards of people in africa or other super poor people even in the US, I'd say the average "upper middle class" dream home of 2400sqft would fit your definition, right? They definitely could survive with less space. Plenty of people do. So, we know it's excess. You basically just called all new home construction suburbia evil.

That's completely ridiculous and does not in any way describe the human drive to procreate. Like, I can't believe you actually said that out loud. It's baffling.

Lolwut? The desire to procreate has everything to do with wanting to leave a legacy and perpetuate your own line at its core. And, at a more basic sense, it's probably moreso just the human desire to put peepee in v hole.

[Endus]

By housing standards of people in africa or other super poor people even in the US, I'd say the average "upper middle class" dream home of 2400sqft would fit your definition, right? They definitely could survive with less space. Plenty of people do. So, we know it's excess. You basically just called all new home construction suburbia evil.

Nope. That's you misrepesenting things. There's a vast difference between modest comfort in your own community, and the outcomes half the world away for people in a separate community you have absolutely no capacity to influence. That same doesn't hold true when the inequities are within your own community.

Lolwut? The desire to procreate has everything to do with wanting to leave a legacy and perpetuate your own line at its core. And, at a more basic sense, it's probably moreso just the human desire to put peepee in v hole.

If this were the actual drive behind procreation, then adoption wouldn't happen. This is the kind of thing I mean when I say your position is so obviously wrong that it's baffling. It does not describe reality as we see it at a casual glance. And your second line completely contradicts your prior arguments.

We procreate largely for the same kinds of reasons ducks procreate. Or gerbils. Or beetles. We're animals like any other.

[BeepBoo]

If this were the actual drive behind procreation, then adoption wouldn't happen. This is the kind of thing I mean when I say your position is so obviously wrong that it's baffling. It does not describe reality as we see it at a casual glance.

Because we both know the reality is the reason people have children is as varied as the number of stars in the sky...

So you're whole "what!? NO WAY! THIS ISN'T THE REASON ANYONE HAS KIDS! HOW COULD YOU SAY THAT OUT LOUD!?" is fucking bogus.

[Specialka]

People here really need to read more philosophy.

- - - Updated - - -

When you put your needs ahead of the needs of others. Is this a trick question?



Where did you ever get the idea that any of the above would qualify as "evil"? Contributing to the community by having children and being part of that community is a demonstration of community interest. And nothing about this framed fulfilling your own needs as "evil", either. Unless that comes at the expense of others. If you're having lavish dinners while your neighbours starve, for instance.

And again; we're talking about the central root of evil, not the full summation of the entire concept.



That's a statement that does not make sense. Human communities have been caring for members in need for longer than Homo Sapiens has been a species. Lacking this kind of basic empathy is literally a symptom of mental illness.

So a mother stealing foods to feed her kids is "evil" ? "Evil" (again a childish notion alone) is a bit more complex and depends of context.

- - - Updated - - -

Because we both know the reality is the reason people have children is as varied as the number of stars in the sky...

So you're whole "what!? NO WAY! THIS ISN'T THE REASON ANYONE HAS KIDS! HOW COULD YOU SAY THAT OUT LOUD!?" is fucking bogus.

.
Sorry, but for once, Endus is right. It is even the contrary, having kids comes with responsability and you start to live for them rather than for you. It is totally the opposite of self interest as you also tend to lose quite a bit of freedom. Not having kids is self interest.

[Shadowferal]

If Selfishness didn't exist we'd be robots.

[Flarelaine]

Let me preemptively remind everyone that religious discussion is a forbidden topic and andswering this question tends to go that way.

[jonnysensible]

Let me preemptively remind everyone that religious discussion is a forbidden topic and andswering this question tends to go that way.

what if the answer is satan?

[Shadowferal]

The upshot is one needs to make a conscious choice to commit actions that show us what evil is.

[qwerty123456]

The root of Evil is knowing your needs/wants/desire for something are far less than another's and yet choosing to prioritize yourself over them.

Taking the last candy bar and eating it(selfishness) isn't evil. Taking the last candy bar and eating it while the person next to you is suffering from low blood sugar and may potentially slip into a diabetic coma is.

[Barcasaur]

The first lesson in the bible has the answer.

[Flarelaine]

Did I stutter?

[enigma77]

Did I stutter?

Yes

/10char