DF tier forge won't unlock for six weeks after mythic raids open.

[Celement]

Can't you just find likeminded players to play with who either don't care about tier or start raiding after 6 weeks? This seems like one of those community problems that are easily solvable by playing with people like yourself.

I mean I sat myself because I got rng fucked... I have no interest in doing things slower and am happy with my group the system just sucked.

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They aren't 'core of the classes' so calm down. They are slight dmg upgrades for the most part

Slight is really gonna come down to opinions. I play at a difficulty where your crits triggering 8% extra dmg for a period of time like a trinket isn't "slight"

[Lochton]

Sounds fair enough to me. Ain't in a rush.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

Sounds fair enough to me. Ain't in a rush.

What possible advantage does this have for anyone?

I don't think anyone is advocating for being able to craft it all on the first day, but why not open like a week after the raid with a one week CD? Feels like ignoring most of the lessons of S3 and S4 that were super popular

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The main issue is that this essentially requires cross-pollination within segments of the playerbase which don't always gel with each other. As an M+-only player for the last two expansions I can say that it felt like ass at the beginning of S3 to see so many raiders getting a red carpet treatment just because they... y'know... raid. I get that the weekly box is supposed to make up for this but it's still a pretty bad feeling for the beginning of a Tier and it sucks that they're doubling down on it.

In s3 I was doing 4-8 keys on 3 characters and I never had a set piece in the Vault :P

[Celement]

It's also not the ''core of the classes'' by any stretch of the imagination. "I play at a diffuculty where..." just stop.

It's a large gain and I'm struggling to see what point it is you are trying to make beyond being disagreeable.

It isnt a ilv thing you can make it baseline heroic. I just don't want major power systems time gated pointlessly.

Do you have any argument for why not? High end guilds are gonna funnel and have the bonuses the first day. It just fucks over anyone who isn't hardcore enough to do spit runs..

[Celement]

My point was made very clearly in my very first reply:

Tier sets are not the ''core of the classes'' calm down.

They are a major part of the kite... I get most players progress at a slow enough rate for it to not matter or fast enough they have splits but it sucks being in the middle of those two were you are doing drastically less damage from bad rng.

This should be a solved problem. Either make tier minor like it was in the past or use the forge to make it baseline. This is creating a problem so there is a problem.

[Celement]

Have you even seen the new tier sets? lol

Demonology
(2) Set Bonus: Demon Bolt and Felstorm damage increased by 20%.
(4) Set Bonus: Demon Bolt has a chance to make your next Hand of Gul’dan instant and deal 50% increased damage.

Frost
(2) Set Bonus: Ice Lance and Frozen Orb damage increased by 10%.
(4) Set Bonus: Consuming Fingers of Frost increases Blizzard damage by 25% and Frostbolt damage by 50% for 6 seconds.

Nothing about that is 'a major part of the kit'. They are a slight bonus Blizz themselves even said that they didn't want tier sets being too disruptive or changing to any classes gameplay cuz of the new talent system.

I'm not sure how to say this politely... what was your mark in mathematics in high school?

Perhaps we have different definitions of slight.

[Revamp Man]

1. It was time gated previously as well
2. With the loot system changes tier now functions similarly to the way it did previously

This isn't some huge negative like people think because the negative parts of the system that the Catalyst was created to fix are gone

Not getting tier in s3 was effected by
Personal loot
Ilvl restrictions

We no longer have either so all that bad rng is back to
Did it drop
Did it go to you

My raid team has a focus on 2pc>4pc>rest so everyone gets the bonus quickly and with the size we get 3 tier each boss so a normal clear gives 15 pieces of tier

[hulkgor]

The six weeks seems unreasonable to me, and was hoping for a much shorter gap (well, was hoping for no gap at all, and just a weekly limit or something, this is way too long).

[Celement]

Perhaps you had bad marks in reading in high school?

Tier sets are not the 'core of the classes' like you claimed.

and we want you all to be able to play those classes without Class Sets that significantly change your rotations or resource economies

Go take up Blizzard on their definition of ''significant'' and ability to do high school math I guess lmao

Are you insulting someones reading skills while at the same time not quoting properly?

Tying massive damage spikes to tier is going to mandate it for harder difficulties. I honestly think you are just arguing to argue. You are just screaming no while being unable to formulate an argument.

[jeezusisacasual]

6 weeks is way to long to give raiding exclusive rights to the tier set system if they are going to balance classes around the tier set bonuses atleast. This feels like if they made the charges fast what becomes the point of Heroic and Normal raids? And to that i say who cares about them anyway, the devs sure as shit do not care as they do not promote it like they do the mythic raiding scene and judging how little they tuned them in the past tier they operate more like a factory producing content then an artist figuring out the correct strokes to make the painting shine.

That being said i like the idea of the Prot Paladin set helping another dps in a mythic dungeon and wish that more tank and healer centric set bonus's operated in a similar fashion since they are traditionally thought to be support roles.

[Celement]

I literally copy/pasted their official blue post announcement on the front page guy. I've heard of delusional, but this is a bit ridic.

But you’ll find that these bonuses generally take a light touch

we want these Class Sets to have minimal impact

Like I said, calm down...


also lol @ ''massive damage spikes". That 10% buff on frozen orb is gonna make or break this pull guys!

I mean you don't start a quote mid sentence and you shouldn't speak confidently on something you barely grasp. The examples you give as small bonus comes off more like satire.

You can argue these are the first draft and they might be heavily nerfed. Outside of that I'm gonna assume you are just trolling.

[Ryzek]

I honestly don't care either way. If they open sooner cool, if not that's fine too. Gear will come when it come since I do raid and mythic plus every week. I'm not obsessed with gaining all my bis as fast as possible.

[kenn9530]

I don't get the point of this... I had to bench myself in s3 because I had extremely bad luck finishing my tier that did a massive amount of my classes overall dmg.

What is the point to time gating tier when it's been made so impactful it essentially acts as part of your classes tool kite? Is it for the world first race? If so its moronic as they are going to have loot funnels and rerolled characters so it wont effect it.

It feels like they are treating tier like it was for most of classic wow. Something that adds a little dmg and doesn't make or break classes.

They are just minor buffs that wont be more than 10% of a dmg increase and most classes will be lucky to even get 5% more dmg, if you are being benched for not having tier then the problem isnt not having tier, gear should be far harder to get but WoW just hands it out like candy, WF guilds will clear it without everyone getting full tier sets as the content is not designed around having them.

[Revamp Man]

Idk much about other specs but the ones I play don't have anything major

Brm: just adds extra purify
MW: adds about 20% power to heals but is mostly good in dungeons and smaller groups
WW: just a dps bonus

Ret: dps and crit increase
Frost: dps and crit increase but does incentivize playing a certain build
Prot pally: we become a support tank in the least meaningful way
Blood: haste and dps bonus which kinda translates to more self healing
Devastation: you might get a haste boost when you use empowered spells

You can play without all of these bonuses and you'll still be doing about 90% of output which while it's boring it does make sense for the first raid. These aren't game changing like 9.2 has with some bonuses (UH is literally just "you'll get more haste more often")

Not getting 4 set super fast doesn't mean much

[Celement]

I've kinda come to realize the people I'm speaking to either cap out at heroic or complete CE just a few weeks before patch and likely can't piece together why in their heads locking major increases to dos is a negative...

[klaps_05]

Just like before, it makes no sense to delay the catalyst. Just let people get 4pc and tune according to that.

[Ealyssa]

I
Slight is really gonna come down to opinions.

mmmh no. Numbers are numbers and % are %. You not being able to understand them means literally shit.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

I've kinda come to realize the people I'm speaking to either cap out at heroic or complete CE just a few weeks before patch and likely can't piece together why in their heads locking major increases to dos is a negative...

I mean it clearly won't be as bad as last tier but that's kinda not the point, right? Eventually the sets will be better and this delay is bad design so it would be better if they change it now.

I think a lot of people also don't realize that you really only have a certain amount of time to get competent pugs and push before everyone decent has quit for the patch, and not being able to have a set until 2 months in if you aren't raiding is a major kick in the teeth. They need to find another way to incentivize raiding.

[jeezusisacasual]

I mean it clearly won't be as bad as last tier but that's kinda not the point, right? Eventually the sets will be better and this delay is bad design so it would be better if they change it now.

I think a lot of people also don't realize that you really only have a certain amount of time to get competent pugs and push before everyone decent has quit for the patch, and not being able to have a set until 2 months in if you aren't raiding is a major kick in the teeth. They need to find another way to incentivize raiding.

This is my concern since i stop my sub the moment i get KSM as i have completed my goals which happened 2 ( 8 days ) weeks this previous patch and 3 weeks the previous patch. The only way they can get me back to raiding would be to tune it down to around ICC after a month of nerfs where i can hop in and out without much commitment.