How is Dragonflight solving shortage of tanks and healers problem?

[Lochton]

When I play a DPS, I want to DPS, not to heal or tank. For many classes the option to tank or heal doesn't even exist. It's the solution then to just stop playing that char?
Doesn't make sense.

When I play as DPS, I want to DPS, and I find a group that can fit a DPS. If I cannot find a group, then I consider my options of, if I tank for someone, or heal, they'll do the same for me, at least in the groups of people I talk with. And if that is not a possibility, then you have the freedom to wait for a complete group or find a group in need of DPS.

[Ielenia]

I've been a long time WoW player until about 1.5 years ago. How does the new expansion, Dragonflight, solve the shortage of tanks and healers problems?

They can't "solve" the problem, because the problem is entirely out of their hands. It's player-created. Tanking and healing-- and specially tanking-- are roles that have high responsibility and competitivity, because you have limited spots compared to the dps. A good portion of the wipes (I'd argue the majority) happen because the tank died, either because the tank mismanaged their active mitigations, or the healer mismanaged their spells/mana.

In M+ runs? It's the tank that is supposed to lead the group through the most optimal route to kill as few mobs as possible while still filling up the % bar. In boss fights? If a DPS or two die? "Eh, fuck them. Keep going." But if a healer or tank dies? More often than not, you'll hear "tank/healer died. Wipe out quickly." from the group leader. Same thing in raid.

Blizzard can add healer and tank specs until we have more tank and healer specs than we have dps specs... and we'll still have tank/healer shortage. Because of the responsibility that comes with those roles. Because this is fully player-dependent.

[Lochton]

Also in general, tanking requires so much more preparation and skill than DPS and heal in m+, it's unreal.

The main preparation is not where new tanks falters, it is the other points you mention.

In many seasons you need to learn new routes through the dungeons, you need to pull the exact right amount and always pull as much as possible, but never too much.

One issue that has cost the community future tanks, is that if they don't know this, or fail, about 80% of the groups will chew them out, leave, or kick them.

You dying or failing usually means failing the key.

Correct. And if that just has a sniff of happening, the wrong kind of people will up and leave.

As a tank you can't just jump in and play m+, you need to know exactly whats going on right from the start.

Once more, correct, and at low keys even, some don't permit you to get in on that path of knowledge.

As a dps or heal you just follow ans concentrate on damage and healing, nobody will ever know if this is your first time in that dungeon.

Oh, they'll know about healers being the first or not.

- - - Updated - - -

Blizzard can add healer and tank specs until we have more tank and healer specs than we have dps specs... and we'll still have tank/healer shortage. Because of the responsibility that comes with those roles. Because this is fully player-dependent.

Pure truth, and the approach of these waters out the numbers.

[unbound]

I've been a long time WoW player until about 1.5 years ago. How does the new expansion, Dragonflight, solve the shortage of tanks and healers problems?

Also I know Mythic+ is a popular feature, but I absolutely hate it because it's so difficult to get tanks for a group. Is Mythic+ in DF the same as before? This also leads to the issue of tanks and healers shortage.

It does nothing to solve the healer and tank problem. Mostly because the primary tank and healer problem is a community problem. *Far* too many people get wound up if the tank doesn't do super pulls or the healer can't heal through the super pulls or the tank can't keep aggro because dps is going ham (many times troll pulling) or the healer can't save the dps from standing in stupid.

You want tanks or healers? Help them. Encourage them. Stop screaming if a pull doesn't go the way you want or if there is a wipe.

I have continued to run healers for every expansion for pugs, and I can only stand doing it for a few runs every now and then. I can't imagine how a new player would feel in this environment.

I only run tanks in pugs when I have at least one family member or friend with me. I absolutely refuse to run tanks in pugs because I despise the super pulls.

Fix the community and you'll fix the tank and healer problem.

[Makabreska]

Well, Necrotic is no more, so that should help a little in M+.

[Lochton]

It does nothing to solve the healer and tank problem. Mostly because the primary tank and healer problem is a community problem. *Far* too many people get wound up if the tank doesn't do super pulls or the healer can't heal through the super pulls or the tank can't keep aggro because dps is going ham (many times troll pulling) or the healer can't save the dps from standing in stupid.

You want tanks or healers? Help them. Encourage them. Stop screaming if a pull doesn't go the way you want or if there is a wipe.

I have continued to run healers for every expansion for pugs, and I can only stand doing it for a few runs every now and then. I can't imagine how a new player would feel in this environment.

I only run tanks in pugs when I have at least one family member or friend with me. I absolutely refuse to run tanks in pugs because I despise the super pulls.

Fix the community and you'll fix the tank and healer problem.

Man, best words. I can hear you are doing the same as me, trying to get people to tag along to get used to it. I see so many who loses hope for tanking or healing because of abuse they get due to, of course, making mistakes (honest or not), or just generally feeling like they get the boot if they cannot read people's mind.

[BraveNewWorld]

I'm doing my part to do the opposite of solving the problem unfortunately.

I main bear, my spec is garbage in Shadowlands. And it's the only spec that has not gotten any attention so far in Alpha/Beta for Dragonflight. In addition to a terrible 2/4 tier set bonuses.

I will not be playing my tank this expac and will just play a DPS and just chill.

At the very least they could give the important roles a little bit more attention instead of giving it all to Hunters.

[hulkgor]

The community is toxic. That's why tanks don't want to PuG your M+ keys.

Nothing Blizzard is going to do will fix that.

This, entirely.

The amount of hate and insults you get on m+s as a tank, for the most minor or irrelevant things is absolutely insane, enough to make anyone say "fuck it". Add the higher than the other roles entry barrier in regards of knowledge, routes, etc, that's enough to make anyone just not want to tank.

Nothing Blizzard can do about it, entirely player-created problem. Blizzard actually is making some changes to reduce the entry barrier to new tanks every season on DF (new dungeon pool, fresh start on knowledge of dungeons\routes, etc), but the other issue will surely remain.

[Celement]

The only way to solve the overpopulation problem with dps players is to add tight personal dps checks to group content that the other players can not carry a weak player.

Do that and you will so the over abundance of dps decrease it will still likely be the most popular role but a lot of it is tied to how easy it is.

[Mamut]

The only way to solve the overpopulation problem with dps players is to add tight personal dps checks to group content that the other players can not carry a weak player.

Do that and you will so the over abundance of dps decrease it will still likely be the most popular role but a lot of it is tied to how easy it is.

That will solve nothing because they still will play as DPS.

And Blizzard can't do anything. It's a problem created by toxic players who refuse to tank or heal but scream at every mistake or not "optimal" route that people do while going through M+.

[shade3891]

4 dps and 1 tank and 1 healer, should make the waiting ques shorter.

[Khaza-R]

This, entirely.

The amount of hate and insults you get on m+s as a tank, for the most minor or irrelevant things is absolutely insane, enough to make anyone say "fuck it". Add the higher than the other roles entry barrier in regards of knowledge, routes, etc, that's enough to make anyone just not want to tank.

Nothing Blizzard can do about it, entirely player-created problem. Blizzard actually is making some changes to reduce the entry barrier to new tanks every season on DF (new dungeon pool, fresh start on knowledge of dungeons\routes, etc), but the other issue will surely remain.

Yup. Sadly its an community issue that seems to be getting worst the more the meta is defined.

In Legion I had no issues tanking pugs. In BfA, I would encounter the occasional jerk but is was far less often than not.

In Shadowlands, I stopped trying to PuG by 9.0.5. It was just not enjoyable at all. Too many people screeching about incredibly minor things that didn't even impact timing the key in the end.

[ChairmanKaga]

6 person content could be an option. 4 dps 1 healer 1 tank

This is the first time I have read a reasonable solution to this issue instead of just offering more tanks specs. As if all these DPS are holding out for mage tanking or something.

[pahbi]

Every now and then I get the itch to try tanking, then I remember how badly tanks are treated and say heck with that.

Many a time I've been in a mythic+ and the tank will do something that isn't 100% perfect, and players will call the tank an idiot and then rage quit. I could see being this picky if your doing +20 mythics, but folks behave this badly on +2 or +3 mythics.

I did healing for quite a while on my shaman, but I just couldn't take it anymore when DPS would stand in the fire and expect to be healed so they can do an extra .1% dps.

Honestly, I consider it a miracle that folks are still willing to tank/heal for pugs given how badly people behave.

[Accendor]

When I play as DPS, I want to DPS, and I find a group that can fit a DPS. If I cannot find a group, then I consider my options of, if I tank for someone, or heal, they'll do the same for me, at least in the groups of people I talk with. And if that is not a possibility, then you have the freedom to wait for a complete group or find a group in need of DPS.

If you have regular people to play and take with, you are not discussing pugs, which is the main point here tho

[Vakna]

It's a community issue, not something Blizzard can fix.

The problem is tanking requires 10x more work than a standard dps, you are expected to be the defacto leader of your group, you're expected to learn and plan all routes beforehand - you're also expected to read your teams minds, because if they don't like something in your route they will let you know loudly and rudely. You're also a colossal point of failure, if you make a mistake or your routes aren't good, the dungeon is bricked, if a dps makes a mistake you usually barely notice. You are the leader, the planner and the punching bag of your group. You need to have incredibly thick skin to not let the toxic atmosphere get to you, and you also need to be willing to put in a lot of work outside regular gaming to be an effective leader and route planner.

Compare that to the average experience of being a dps, you just turn up, have a vague idea of what to interrupt, and press your damage buttons.

I've been a tank main myself since the beginning of Legion, and I will never, ever subject myself to pugging Mythic+, ever - regardless of if Blizzard puts a bonus bag in there for tanks or something. I will only play with my friends, because engaging with this community as a tank is not worth it, and I suspect many others share this sentiment.

This isn't a problem that Blizzard can fix, it's a deeply engrained issue that is in the heads of players on what the role of a tank should be, and that is never going to change. This is how it is, forever.

[MoanaLisa]

I've been a long time WoW player until about 1.5 years ago. How does the new expansion, Dragonflight, solve the shortage of tanks and healers problems?

It's not Blizzard's problem to solve short of creating AI tanks and healers. If people don't want to tank or heal they won't. It's not complicated. Adding a tank or healer class to the game eventually just spreads out healers and tanks over more classes. People choose the role.

- - - Updated - - -

The only way to solve the overpopulation problem with dps players is to add tight personal dps checks to group content that the other players can not carry a weak player.

Do that and you will so the over abundance of dps decrease it will still likely be the most popular role but a lot of it is tied to how easy it is.

So ok. Let's pretend that Blizzard can do this (they can't and won't but that's another thing). So what happens next? Those DPS that can no longer get into groups to DPS won't become tanks and healers. They either quit the game or start playing solo. It won't happen anyway but even if it did it's a non-starter. Blizzard isn't going to do anything to push average players to quit the game and it's quite a bizarre thing to think they will.

Frankly, if Blizzard was to do anything it would be more helpful if they started handing out seven-day suspensions to those who are inclined to abuse tanks and healers. That won't happen either but it would potentially fix more than making it difficult to DPS.

[Osmeric]

It's never a community problem, in the sense of the community being responsible. The community cannot be responsible for anything. If you think it is, it's just Blizzard not understanding how the community would react and improperly designing the game because of that.

It is the game designers' responsibility to take into account how their players will react to the game design, not the players' responsibility to make the game design work.

[Arai]

So many people here are completely wrong. Of course it is blizzards fault as well, THEY design M+ and THEY have the ability to put in systems to help you.

- Implement tools so other people in your group can suggest routing like a proper ping system or a different way to show routing before the run starts. Not everyone wants to download X addons. If its there for everyone by design more people will use it and get accustomed to it. I too want to Tank sometimes but I absolutely cannot be bothered to learn so many routes. Its garbage design and blizzard does 0 to combat its issues.
- The Healer meta in M+ is dealing damage. Most people do not want to deal dmg of like 50+% of the dungeon. Its garbage design and again in the hands of blizzard to solve.
- M+ timers. As a DPS you have a lot less stress than Tanks and Healers from a M+ timer. If you fail as a Healer it is a wipe and the group might be dead. Its 100% your fault. Tank the same. Since the timer is so important, all the pressure is on them instead. If a DPS is suboptimal he still barely feels pressure. Again blizzards design fail with M+ timers.

I personally think that the biggest issues is the cancerous routing design in addition to the timer. Seeing blizzard answering with "M+ Seasons" so everybody starts at 0 shows how clueless they really are.

[lordjust]

They can't "solve" the problem, because the problem is entirely out of their hands...

It isn't completely out of their hand. They can make healing and tanking more approachable. Back in MoP I played mistweaver because it was easy to play. With WoD they did a couple of changes that changed the playstyle so I stopped playing mistweaver. Similar situation with different specs. Played DH and warrior as a tank in legion, played blood DK and pro pala in BFA. They were easy to get started and over time they made them more and more complex and balanced them for that more complex playstyle so that you need to have a higher understanding of the spec and play on a higher skilllevel to get started.

It's great if you want to play on a high level like m+ and mythic raid but keeps people away from trying out tanking or healing. Starting as a dps player is easy and even if you're bad, you'll get the job done and can improve over time to speed up kills. As a tank or a healer, if you're bad it's a wipe. With the new talent trees they have the option to provide an easier option with alternatives for more experienced players to choose a more complex playstyle that nets them more DPS or survivability for harder content.

I tried out the evoker as a healer and I don't like it. From the get go it's complex. You end the starting zone with 4 healing spells and then open up your skilltree that give you another 4-6 abilities with only one quest where you had the chance to try out your 4 spells. It's hard to get started because everything is new and different from other classes. Being mid-rang feels weird because you don't want to stand by the melee to avoid their mechanics but can't stand by the ranged because you don't have enough range. It has a lot of potential with its high mobility but the needed skilllevel and understanding for it is high.

With the new talent trees they could do what they do with feral and fury and add some talents for an easier playstyle. It wouldn't be competetive but easy enough to get you started and over time you could change talents slowly as you get a better understanding of your talents.