How is Dragonflight solving shortage of tanks and healers problem?

[Lochton]

If you have regular people to play and take with, you are not discussing pugs, which is the main point here tho

No, I am not discussing pugs as a complete pug with the people I go with because of A LOT of the reasons in this thread but even some organized groups have behavior unwanting and chasing away healers and tanks. The problem lies with the players.

[Nymrohd]

The community is toxic. That's why tanks don't want to PuG your M+ keys.

Nothing Blizzard is going to do will fix that.

The community is toxic because the design lead the community there. And tanks don't like to PuG M+ because the expectations for tanks are ludicrous and get even worse at specific seasons.
Make it easier for tanks and then they might show up.
a) Make the route less important to be optimal. I've said it once and I'll keep saying it; keep a linear path trough the bosses that gets you well below 100% and just let the groups pick which extra packs to pull.
b) Don't create seasonal affixes that punish severely small mistakes in pull order. Bwonsamdi can go to hell for what he put us all through in his season.
c) Threat should only ever be a problem is you are constantly kiting.
d) Some tanking tools are too damn strong for them to be so rare. While everyone doesn't need Ring of Peace and Gorefiend's Grasp, some form of mob displacement should be universal (though I still want Draw and Quarter for Divine Steed)

[FuxieDK]

I've been a long time WoW player until about 1.5 years ago. How does the new expansion, Dragonflight, solve the shortage of tanks and healers problems?

Also I know Mythic+ is a popular feature, but I absolutely hate it because it's so difficult to get tanks for a group. Is Mythic+ in DF the same as before? This also leads to the issue of tanks and healers shortage.

With Vengeance, extreme threat generation and buffed damage for tanks, Blizzard have done EVERYTHING they can..........to take the fun out of tanking.
Today, a tank is pretty much a DPS that stands in front of the boss in stead of behind it.

Back in the day, threat management was fun, you had to do active mitigation, look out for trigger happy DPS etc, not anymore and thus hardly no one want to tank anymore.

[Cathfaern]

Back in the day, threat management was fun, you had to do active mitigation, look out for trigger happy DPS etc, not anymore and thus hardly no one want to tank anymore.

Yes, back in the days when tanking was so fun that you had hard time to finding a dsp because everyone wanted to tank. The sweet times of instantly getting a group with dps specs while waiting hours with a tank. Oh wait...

[Nymrohd]

With Vengeance, extreme threat generation and buffed damage for tanks, Blizzard have done EVERYTHING they can..........to take the fun out of tanking.
Today, a tank is pretty much a DPS that stands in front of the boss in stead of behind it.

Back in the day, threat management was fun, you had to do active mitigation, look out for trigger happy DPS etc, not anymore and thus hardly no one want to tank anymore.

Wait do you actually play the game or tank at it? Because I struggle to think how you consider the above to be any concern or how on earth you think tanks in M+ are not tanks but dps.

[Alydael]

The community is toxic. That's why tanks don't want to PuG your M+ keys.

Nothing Blizzard is going to do will fix that.

I agree that the shortage is because the community is toxic. I tank and I never have a problem finding a group (obviously) but most groups start bickering over nonsense half way through the run. They either start flaming some dps for not doing high enough numbers or someone messes somnething up and someone wants to start crying about it.

Who the hell wants to hear all that baby nonsense? Half of these players should head back to the crib and grow a little maturity before they engage with others.

I totally disagree that there is nothing Blizz can do about it. Most of this stuff is done in chat, Blizz can look at the chat and impose penalties for toxic behavior. I think there should be a massive penalty for leaving the group- as it basically kills the key for everyone else, so that should be treated harshly (maybe a massive IO score hit or a week ban (for first time more for repeat).

Blizz also promotes this type of behavior with their all or nothing reward structure where basically it does not pay to stick with the key if it looks like it is going South. That is all Blizz's design. It does not have to be that way and it is a big driver of the toxic behavior in mythic+

Blizz can do a lot more to manage toxic behavior in its games, it just simply choses not to- throws up its hands and claims its a player problem and considers it "done." Other companies take a more modern approach and actually address the behavior. I think it is a big indicator of success in the future for your games. Regular players vastly outnumber toxic players but the toxic players are louder and drive them away, so you will steadily lose players until you clean up your toxic element.

After all, who wants to play a game with a bunch of five year olds throwing what amounts to a temper tantrum when the game doesn't go their way.

[dragonflight10]

Also in general, tanking requires so much more preparation and skill than DPS and heal in m+, it's unreal.
In many seasons you need to learn new routes through the dungeons, you need to pull the exact right amount and always pull as much as possible, but never too much. You dying or failing usually means failing the key.
As a tank you can't just jump in and play m+, you need to know exactly whats going on right from the start.

As a dps or heal you just follow ans concentrate on damage and healing, nobody will ever know if this is your first time in that dungeon.

I "jumped" 3 weeks into season 4 after quitting in castle nathria and tanked.

literally only experienced with mechagon, all other dungeons were new to me, i did just fine thats why low key exist mate
people put too much pressure that tank NEEDS to know the route 100% that is not entirely true in low keys

[Celement]

It's not Blizzard's problem to solve short of creating AI tanks and healers. If people don't want to tank or heal they won't. It's not complicated. Adding a tank or healer class to the game eventually just spreads out healers and tanks over more classes. People choose the role.

- - - Updated - - -



So ok. Let's pretend that Blizzard can do this (they can't and won't but that's another thing). So what happens next? Those DPS that can no longer get into groups to DPS won't become tanks and healers. They either quit the game or start playing solo. It won't happen anyway but even if it did it's a non-starter. Blizzard isn't going to do anything to push average players to quit the game and it's quite a bizarre thing to think they will.

Frankly, if Blizzard was to do anything it would be more helpful if they started handing out seven-day suspensions to those who are inclined to abuse tanks and healers. That won't happen either but it would potentially fix more than making it difficult to DPS.

I'm not saying they will. I am just saying that is the reasonable solution to the problem. When you have one role that never has any kind of skill check till the community forces one at least it's only natural it have an abundance of people playing it.

Im more explaining why adding more tanks and more healers wont really do anything. People don't really bug dps players till later mythic dungeons or raids.

[Sialina]

The community is toxic because the design lead the community there. And tanks don't like to PuG M+ because the expectations for tanks are ludicrous and get even worse at specific seasons.
Make it easier for tanks and then they might show up.
a) Make the route less important to be optimal. I've said it once and I'll keep saying it; keep a linear path trough the bosses that gets you well below 100% and just let the groups pick which extra packs to pull.
b) Don't create seasonal affixes that punish severely small mistakes in pull order. Bwonsamdi can go to hell for what he put us all through in his season.
c) Threat should only ever be a problem is you are constantly kiting.
d) Some tanking tools are too damn strong for them to be so rare. While everyone doesn't need Ring of Peace and Gorefiend's Grasp, some form of mob displacement should be universal (though I still want Draw and Quarter for Divine Steed)

The routing is 100% irrelevant in m+ currently unless you are doing high keys. In a 15 key you can blast through 135% trash and still 3 chest a dungeon without issues. If you can't time it while doing exactly 100% trash it just means that your group isn't skilled and/or geared enough yet.

Threat should be a thing for sure, I tank and having to actually do things in a pull except press your AoE button once to keep aggro is part of the fun in my opinion, taunt locking, focus targeting, cooldown planning, it's all part of the playstyle that makes it fun in the same way maxing DPS is fun for a DPS. At laest for me.

I'll agree with B for pugging though, prideful was not great at all, even if you had a good route planned out, any minor mistake, like a bodypull or some AoE that went astray meant the pride timing got messed up. The other 2 affixes have been a lot of fun though. Pride worked ok in organized groups, but yeah, not so great for pugs.

D I like that the tanks all feel different, but I also do like the sound of draw and quarter for divine steed With that and perhaps a shield charge pushback it would make it easier to get the mobs out of Sanguine if accidents happen. Druids have typhoon already and that works ok.

[Ielenia]

It isn't completely out of their hand. They can make healing and tanking more approachable.

Approachable such as... how, exactly?

But let me answer that for you: no, they can't. Not without making healing brain-dead like DPS is. You mentioned mistweaving back in MoP and how easy it was? That's because MW was powerful back then. I know because I played a MW back in the day as well. Keeping Renewing Mists up on 3-6 targets, extending their duration for several seconds, and then using an instant Uplift that healed all those affected by RM by a decent bunch? And then Revival? MW was powerful back in the heydays of MoP.

But I'll repeat what I said: this is not a problem Blizzard can do something about. It's entirely out of their hands because the reason many, if not most people don't try healing and/or tanking is because they can't be arsed with the responsibilities that come along such roles. Because the fault for wipes in M+ are 90% attributed to the tank or the healer.

The only way Blizzard can make more people try and keep playing tank and healer roles is to make those roles practically brain-dead easy. But if they do that, those that actually like the role because of the challenges they provide will likely be turned off by the changes.

[schwarzkopf]

I've been a long time WoW player until about 1.5 years ago. How does the new expansion, Dragonflight, solve the shortage of tanks and healers problems?

It doesn't because the problem is embedded into the way the genre works.

To make it so that tanks and healers aren't always in short supply would require that they change the makeup of groups (e.g. 6 man groups etc), but that isn't going to happen.

[Beuargh]

shortage of tanks and healers problem...

you don't play tank or healer?? then you're part of the problem.

[schwarzkopf]

Approachable such as... how, exactly?

I think tanking and healing is and always be a role that is not viable for most players. You can't learn to heal or tank by yourself, and you can't learn to heal or tank in a pug - so that limits the pool immensely.

- - - Updated - - -

you don't play tank or healer?? then you're part of the problem.

If you want to be a tank or a healer, then you need the support of other people to do so - if you don't have said support, then that isn't your fault.

[Caprias]

it doesnt, bcs it cant...that is 100% player driven problem



then play a tank/healer yourself...
you dont want to? well neither does shitloads of people, hence the shortage, its not a game issue its people issue...

Tank/healer shortage in FF14 is a lot lower despite having even worse group compositions with 1T:1H:2D.

So maybe, just maybe it could have to do with design in some way?

[Beuargh]

If you want to be a tank or a healer, then you need the support of other people to do so - if you don't have said support, then that isn't your fault.

what kind of support are you talking about? I decided to play healer --> I play healer!! where do I need support?

[schwarzkopf]

what kind of support are you talking about? I decided to play healer --> I play healer!! where do I need support?

I decided to be a doctor, I am a doctor - where do I need support ?

A tank and a healer are both critical roles in an instance, if you try and learn on the fly then you will be kicked from the group, abused and told to lrn2play.

[Revamp Man]

it is a player created problem
luckily it seems more people are playing tanks on beta and the new sets are going to make some play in a new way that might be sought after

[Ashana Darkmoon]

With Vengeance, extreme threat generation and buffed damage for tanks, Blizzard have done EVERYTHING they can..........to take the fun out of tanking.
Today, a tank is pretty much a DPS that stands in front of the boss in stead of behind it.

Back in the day, threat management was fun, you had to do active mitigation, look out for trigger happy DPS etc, not anymore and thus hardly no one want to tank anymore.

Tanks doing way more dps would probably be a good way to get more people to play them lol.

Historically, adding tanks/healers doesn't really change anything. People who want to tank or heal already do that.

Imo the only thing you can really do is make the roles more fun, and that probably means letting them do more damage. As a healer you barely have any control over the group's success or failure at this point in time, since good groups will kick everything and take almost no damage, and if people don't kick everything you just get annihilated almost regardless of what buttons you push. That's not going to be a fun playstyle for most people.

[Beuargh]

I decided to be a doctor, I am a doctor - where do I need support ?

A tank and a healer are both critical roles in an instance, if you try and learn on the fly then you will be kicked from the group, abused and told to lrn2play.

poor thing!! if you try to learn on the fly in a group it's the same thing whatever your role is.... you just want the easy way and ask for others to take you on their back while they're doing the job for you... if someone want to kick me out their group, then ok, kick me!! now wait for another healer while I instant queue....

you're the most notorious snowflake among all snowflakes of this forum. your reaction is not a surprise....

[schwarzkopf]

if you try to learn on the fly in a group it's the same thing whatever your role is....

Objectively incorrect ... I can learn to DPS on my own, out in the world - with no help at all.

Be rational.

- - - Updated - - -

you're the most notorious snowflake among all snowflakes of this forum. your reaction is not a surprise....

Why are you making this all about me, I'm stating the reason that tanks and healers are short - but you seem to have to turn it into a person attack ? Why ?