With the inevitable " life realm " expack, the Emerald dream will be a patch, or both will overlaps. ED can be a patch of the Life Realm Expack though.
With the inevitable " life realm " expack, the Emerald dream will be a patch, or both will overlaps. ED can be a patch of the Life Realm Expack though.
For someone who loves to demand examples, you so far have failed to show any proof that "the afterlife of animals has moved from the Emerald Dream to Ardenweald."
Wow. You're being awfully dishonest here. "Barely been to that place". We have been there multiple times in the game. On top of that, we also have several novels talking about the Emerald Dream, sometimes in detail.You haven't linked once. And i've read the WoWpedia page. It doesn't have much because we've barely been to that place. We had snippets of it here and there but nothing substantial like Shadowlands had.
False. It was never called "the Shadowlands". It was called "realm of shadows" and "shadow world". That's not the same thing.What does this has to do with anything? Back in the day, Death Knights got their mount from the Shadowlands. Only afterwards was it called the inbetween.
Except it does. Because what you're offering is a massive retcon of already established lore because, as I and others have demonstrated numerous times, the Emerald Dream has been described and shown multiple times throughout the history of Warcraft, and always been described as the exact same thing, every time: a never-ending lush forest dimension.Established lore doesn't hold much water when you expand a concept beyond its original description, like the Shadowlands.
Because it's a well known fact that you keep ignoring.You continue to regurgitate this over and over,
Demonstrably false. And demonstrated as suchyet the amount of info is probably no more than Shadowlands' original info.
Also demonstrably false. And also demonstrated as such.You know it is a green forest and that it has a sinister equivalent known as the Emerald Nightmare. That's as much as knowing about heaven and hell in the afterlife.
No. It wouldn't. Because the two are not equivalent to each other in any way, shape or form.Think about it. If Zereth Mortis served as the prototype to the afterlife, wouldn't the Emerald Dream, which is said to have multiple layers of testing beds, be kinda similar?
That's the in-between.You've been to that place as much as quests sent you to the Shadowlands prior to 2019. If that place was really reachable, then the portals for it would send you there.
Stop with the dishonesty. We're not talking about "content". We're talking about what information we had about the Emerald Dream.Dude, you can't call that real content. It is just a passageway.
Projection, your honor!Then, you're pretty stuck in your own bubble, unable to see much beyond what is offered to you.
"Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
"You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
"They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...
The Emerald Dream should finally be a classic+ expansion.
How do you know? The Shadowlands are not just a chuck of the plane of Death. They are the plane of Death.
Just look at my previous quote and compare it to what we got in Shadowlands. Wild Gods and Green Dragonflight (Ysera) in Ardenweald.
Have you been to a place that is fully fleshed out? Or have you been to a small segment of a bigger concept? What do these novels say about the Emerald Dream, extensively?Wow. You're being awfully dishonest here. "Barely been to that place". We have been there multiple times in the game. On top of that, we also have several novels talking about the Emerald Dream, sometimes in detail.
They'd take you to the Shadowlands page once.False. It was never called "the Shadowlands". It was called "realm of shadows" and "shadow world". That's not the same thing.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Sha...ds#Appearances
Do you realize all are the same names, right? Shadow Realm, Shadowlands, Shadow world are just different words to describe the same thing. Only in hindsight did it refer to something else, because they had to recton it once Shadowlands came out.
So were the Shadowlands a big retcon. Of Kyrians being the original Spirit Healers and not the Val'kyr; of Wild Gods going to Ardenweald instead of the Emerald Dream; of Maldraxxus being the birthplace of necromatic magic and the scourge; of Dreadlords being Undead creatures instead of Demons.Except it does. Because what you're offering is a massive retcon of already established lore because, as I and others have demonstrated numerous times, the Emerald Dream has been described and shown multiple times throughout the history of Warcraft, and always been described as the exact same thing, every time: a never-ending lush forest dimension.
No one said a lush, green forest wouldn't appear in an Emerald Dream expansion. We say it will include more than just that. Just like the afterlife includes more than just heaven and hell.
There's no need to tell me about the green forest. We all know that. That's how one imagines the place when referring to the Emerald Dream. I'm just saying think bigger. Think outside the box. You saw how Shadowlands could expand on the concept of afterlife. So, it wouldn't be so hard to expand upon the concept of the dream.Because it's a well known fact that you keep ignoring.
You have yet to demonstrate anything but claim such a thing. If you want someone to believe you, provide evidence.Demonstrably false. And demonstrated as such
Reapeating the same thing won't make you any righter. You can start by providing some sources for your claims.Also demonstrably false. And also demonstrated as such.
They kinda are. You can't tell me you didn't get Emerald Dream vibes from Zereth Mortis. Plus, both are similar in purpose. Prototype versions of a finalized product.No. It wouldn't. Because the two are not equivalent to each other in any way, shape or form.
Only after Shadowlands.That's the in-between.
"After World of Warcraft: Shadowlands, the Veil and the Shadowlands were confirmed to be different places."
We're talking content. An empty place is all nice and dandy but it does not utilize a concept's potential.Stop with the dishonesty. We're not talking about "content". We're talking about what information we had about the Emerald Dream.
And what information, exactly, did you get from that place?
Is it true that you just like to object to any proposed idea out there and not really engage in any real debate?Projection, your honor!
I thought for a long time that the Emerald Dream would be an expansion, especially around Legion. They could always come back and mix it in as an expansion, but it feels like if they were going to do it that ship has sailed already.
Your quote means nothing. I want something concrete that the "animal afterlife" has moved from the Dream to Ardenweald. I'll repeat: we don't see a single animal in Ardenweald that isn't native to that realm.
Your argument makes no sense, because we don't need it to be "fully fleshed out". Just fleshed out enough, which is the case of the Emerald Dream, thanks to all the stories, books, and in-game content we got expansion after expansion.Have you been to a place that is fully fleshed out?
Not really. Just like "Lich King" isn't an actual lich, and "Icecrown" isn't an actual crown. A "realm of shadows" is not the same thing as "the Shadowlands" here.Do you realize all are the same names, right? Shadow Realm, Shadowlands, Shadow world are just different words to describe the same thing.
It's not. Because, again, unlike the Emerald Dream, we had zero information about the Shadowlands.So were the Shadowlands a big retcon.
That's not what people are saying. People are saying we wouldn't have anything other than "lush, green forests" in the Emerald Dream. Because that is what all there is to the dream: never-ending lush verdant groves.No one said a lush, green forest wouldn't appear in an Emerald Dream expansion.
We have to keep repeating, because you keep ignoring it.There's no need to tell me about the green forest. We all know that.
You're trying to make the Emerald Dream into something it is not.That's how one imagines the place when referring to the Emerald Dream. I'm just saying think bigger. Think outside the box.
Yes, it would be hard. Because, repeating once again that you keep ignoring it: we knew next to nothing about the Shadowlands, while we do have a wealth of information about the Emerald Dream.You saw how Shadowlands could expand on the concept of afterlife. So, it wouldn't be so hard to expand upon the concept of the dream.
I have. You just predictably ignored it. Hell, you literally admitted we have been to the Dream in the very same paragraph you claimed we have never been to the Dream:You have yet to demonstrate anything but claim such a thing. If you want someone to believe you, provide evidence.
You should heed your own advice.Reapeating the same thing won't make you any righter.
You should heed your own advice. Also, like I said: I did. You just predictably ignored it.You can start by providing some sources for your claims.
No, I got absolutely zero "Emerald Dream" vibes out of Zereth Mortis. And no, they are absolutely not "similar in purpose".They kinda are. You can't tell me you didn't get Emerald Dream vibes from Zereth Mortis. Plus, both are similar in purpose. Prototype versions of a finalized product.
No. We're talking about information, not in-game content. Stop with the dishonesty.We're talking content.
Further information that the Emerald Dream is nothing but lush verdant forests.And what information, exactly, did you get from that place?
There's no debate. You're trying to make the Emerald Dream into something that it is not.Is it true that you just like to object to any proposed idea out there and not really engage in any real debate?
"Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
"You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
"They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...
If you want to disregard the proofs i gave you, that's on you.
Why not? If you don't maximize a zone's potential, you're just wasting existing material.Your argument makes no sense, because we don't need it to be "fully fleshed out". Just fleshed out enough, which is the case of the Emerald Dream, thanks to all the stories, books, and in-game content we got expansion after expansion.
The Lich King has mastery over Frost as much, if not more, than other Liches.Not really. Just like "Lich King" isn't an actual lich, and "Icecrown" isn't an actual crown. A "realm of shadows" is not the same thing as "the Shadowlands" here.
Icecrown is supposed to be the icy throne of the Lich King.
How many realms of shadow do you think there are?
Sure, buddy. You had an entire page dedicated to it in the Chronicles.It's not. Because, again, unlike the Emerald Dream, we had zero information about the Shadowlands.
And the Nightmare. You keep forgetting the nightmare.That's not what people are saying. People are saying we wouldn't have anything other than "lush, green forests" in the Emerald Dream. Because that is what all there is to the dream: never-ending lush verdant groves.
So... an afterlife would only have heaven or hell?
I'm not ignoring the obvious, i'm opening others to new ideas, which you cannot grasp because you're so centered on what exists that you can't imagine what doesn't exist yet. In short, you lack imagination.We have to keep repeating, because you keep ignoring it.
I'm trying to make the Emerald Dream into something that it could be. At least i'm trying. If it was up to you, WoW wouldn't go beyond what exists in vanilla WoW.You're trying to make the Emerald Dream into something it is not.
So, if you know something about a place, you can't expand upon it? Look at the Broken Isles. It had previous lore yet Blizzard reinvented it.Yes, it would be hard. Because, repeating once again that you keep ignoring it: we knew next to nothing about the Shadowlands, while we do have a wealth of information about the Emerald Dream.
You do not know what an evidence is, do you? It takes more than just saying. You need to provide links, quotes, images, something.I have. You just predictably ignored it. Hell, you literally admitted we have been to the Dream in the very same paragraph you claimed we have never been to the Dream:
I'm not the one insisting on the Emerald Dream being a green forest when everybody knows it so.You should heed your own advice.
Where?You should heed your own advice. Also, like I said: I did. You just predictably ignored it.
Really? Didn't it seem similar to Elunaria?No, I got absolutely zero "Emerald Dream" vibes out of Zereth Mortis. And no, they are absolutely not "similar in purpose".
So, you're perfectly fine with an area that provides absolutely nothing?No. We're talking about information, not in-game content. Stop with the dishonesty.
Just based on the looks? What a keen eyesight....Further information that the Emerald Dream is nothing but lush verdant forests.
God forbid someone tries to innovate old lore.There's no debate. You're trying to make the Emerald Dream into something that it is not.
The only real threat, as far as I know, was the nightmare. Xavvy baby has been dealt with twice, once in the stormrage book, and once in game. I'm sure they could make up some new lore just like how they do it every expansion, I'm more or less terrified of another shadowlands. I'm also scared of the constant green and red.
Because you're talking about the in-between, not actual realm of the dead, Shadowlands.
There is a difference between "maximizing potential" and then there's "making it into something it's not". You're arguing for the latter.Why not? If you don't maximize a zone's potential, you're just wasting existing material.
I'm not talking about frost magic. I'm talking about someone called "lich" not being an actual lich. By your logic, Jaina is also a lich thanks to her mastery of frost magic.The Lich King has mastery over Frost as much, if not more, than other Liches.
But it's not called "Icethrone", is it? It's called Icecrown, and the zone is not a crown, is it?Icecrown is supposed to be the icy throne of the Lich King.
"Realms of shadow", or Shadowlands? Those are not one and the same.How many realms of shadow do you think there are?
You are. Because if you weren't, you'd see that your ideas would change the Emerald Dream into something it's not.I'm not ignoring the obvious,
I'll repeat: there's a difference between "expanding a concept" and "making said concept into something it's not". Your ideas do the latter.So, if you know something about a place, you can't expand upon it? Look at the Broken Isles. It had previous lore yet Blizzard reinvented it.
That's rich coming from the guy who claims "we have never been to the Emerald Dream" despite the many quests and events were we do go into the Emerald Dream in WoW.You do not know what an evidence is, do you?
Then why do you insist in making it into something it is not?I'm not the one insisting on the Emerald Dream being a green forest when everybody knows it so.
Elunaria is not the Emerald Dream, or Zereth-Mortis.Really? Didn't it seem similar to Elunaria?
What does that have to do with anything? And who said this area "provides absolutely nothing"? Whether is "provides absolutely nothing" or not is irrelevant. This is the problem with arguing with you. You keep changing your arguments so much, it borders on bait-and-switch.So, you're perfectly fine with an area that provides absolutely nothing?
"Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
"You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
"They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...
I feel like it'd be a patch or perhaps a zone akin to the one from MoP where you do dailies and possibly a future raid. Blizzard has just left the idea of the Emerald Dream to rot. With shadowlands adding in Ardenweald they kinda already gave us the Emerald Dream. Theres not much else to explore, I imagine the next expansion to deal with the void.
We know this - because ED is the opposite/parallel of SL. But this is the realm of nature - we should expect green zones/creatures all over(unless they suddenly also have covenants).
I honestly think that ED sounds borderline boring - and hoping for a zone at best.
Last edited by HansOlo; 2022-10-06 at 07:47 PM.
That's why things like the Drust and Thros, Incubus and other stuff would be refreshing.
We were talking about animal afterlife.
By the way, the inbetween used to be refered to as the Shadowlands.
How do you know something is not? Was the Shadowlands not anything other than a shadowy realm of souls and everything they came up with is heresy?There is a difference between "maximizing potential" and then there's "making it into something it's not". You're arguing for the latter.
She's a Mage. She doesn't combine necromancy with her Frost magic.I'm not talking about frost magic. I'm talking about someone called "lich" not being an actual lich. By your logic, Jaina is also a lich thanks to her mastery of frost magic.
Also: kingdom, reign, royalty, monarchy, kingship, crown.But it's not called "Icethrone", is it? It's called Icecrown, and the zone is not a crown, is it?
Well. How many realms of shadows do you think there are?"Realms of shadow", or Shadowlands? Those are not one and the same.
No, they wouldn't. They'd expand upon existing material.You are. Because if you weren't, you'd see that your ideas would change the Emerald Dream into something it's not.
What's your idea of expanding then?I'll repeat: there's a difference between "expanding a concept" and "making said concept into something it's not". Your ideas do the latter.
*fully.That's rich coming from the guy who claims "we have never been to the Emerald Dream" despite the many quests and events were we do go into the Emerald Dream in WoW.
That's a big difference.
Because it has more potential than that. Look at the Shadowlands. Something that should have been nothing more than shadowy realms. Yet, they've managed to develop the concept into something else entirely.Then why do you insist in making it into something it is not?
I know that. But, all of them kind of reference that place.Elunaria is not the Emerald Dream, or Zereth-Mortis.
Because that's not my idea of Emerald Dream content. Is a portal room content to you?What does that have to do with anything? And who said this area "provides absolutely nothing"? Whether is "provides absolutely nothing" or not is irrelevant. This is the problem with arguing with you. You keep changing your arguments so much, it borders on bait-and-switch.
I beg to differ. There just needs to be more than what is known.
You really think that raid is the culmination of everything Emerald Dream and Nightmare? Come on... there could be much more than just a satyr in red.
It's the opposite of Ardenweald.
And, by your logic, the Shadowlands would have been all Undead and rot. But, that wasn't the case, was it?
I would have loved it to be a expansion but that wont likely ever happen
The animal afterlife? I didn't ignore your evidence. I've shown you how your evidence is bogus because you used a screenshot from an article talking about soulshapes and that those weren't actual animals in the picture.
Do you think deserts fit the "lush verdant forests" concept of the Emerald Dream?How do you know something is not?
No, it wasn't. That was the in-between and, again, we had hints of afterlives for the longest time in WoW.Was the Shadowlands not anything other than a shadowy realm of souls and everything they came up with is heresy?
And now you're moving goalposts. First you say the Lich King is an actual lich "because they master frost magic", and now you move goalposts to saying "but they use necromancy too" when I point out the ludicrousness of your argument when I point out that your argument makes Jaina into a lich.She's a Mage. She doesn't combine necromancy with her Frost magic.
You're taking words that are not synonym to each other and grouping them together. They may be related to each other, but they are not each other. Because you keep insisting that the Emerald Dream is an actual dream because of the word "dream" in its name.Also: kingdom, reign, royalty, monarchy, kingship, crown.
Answer my question first, please.Well. How many realms of shadows do you think there are?
Giving deserts to the Emerald Dream is changing it into something it's not. Again, the Emerald Dream has never been described as anything but "lush verdant forests".No, they wouldn't. They'd expand upon existing material.
Giving more to a concept while staying true to its original conception. And not, y'know, giving deserts to the Emerald Dream,What's your idea of expanding then?
Except you never said "fully":*fully.
That's a big difference.
We keep going in circles because you refuse to accept the facts we knew next to nothing about the Shadowlands prior to the Shadowlands aside from small hints of afterlives, while we have a wealth of information about the Emerald Dream from countless in-game quests, stories and books.Because it has more potential than that. Look at the Shadowlands. Something that should have been nothing more than shadowy realms. Yet, they've managed to develop the concept into something else entirely.
No, they don't. No more than any random forest area "references" the Emerald Dream.I know that. But, all of them kind of reference that place.
We're not talking about "in-game content". We're talking about information regarding the Emerald Dream. And in that case, yes, a portal room in the Emerald Dream is information about the Emerald Dream.Because that's not my idea of Emerald Dream content. Is a portal room content to you?
"Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
"You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
"They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...