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  1. #121
    With the inevitable " life realm " expack, the Emerald dream will be a patch, or both will overlaps. ED can be a patch of the Life Realm Expack though.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    id love to see troll empire at its height if we ever go to past, we know just enough to be intrigued but not enough so devs would be heavily restricted
    only issue can be it was big and not separated from surrounding areas
    Dark Trolls can feature in an ancient kalimdor expansion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Engal View Post
    With the inevitable " life realm " expack, the Emerald dream will be a patch, or both will overlaps. ED can be a patch of the Life Realm Expack though.
    What do you think the Life Realm is if not the Emerald Dream?

  3. #123
    Over 9000! Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    What do you think the Life Realm is if not the Emerald Dream?
    Emerald Dream is just specific chunk of the Plane of Lofe, crafted specificslly for Azeroth.

  4. #124
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    "The spirits of departed animals on Azeroth travel to the Emerald Dream as their afterlife, with the mighty G'Hanir in particular serving as the home to the spirits of winged creatures. The Wild Gods, having been linked to the Dream by Freya, also come here after dying, as do members of the green dragonflight such as Ysera and the former Dragons of Nightmare."

    We know it has been changed in Shadowlands to Ardenweald.
    For someone who loves to demand examples, you so far have failed to show any proof that "the afterlife of animals has moved from the Emerald Dream to Ardenweald."

    You haven't linked once. And i've read the WoWpedia page. It doesn't have much because we've barely been to that place. We had snippets of it here and there but nothing substantial like Shadowlands had.
    Wow. You're being awfully dishonest here. "Barely been to that place". We have been there multiple times in the game. On top of that, we also have several novels talking about the Emerald Dream, sometimes in detail.

    What does this has to do with anything? Back in the day, Death Knights got their mount from the Shadowlands. Only afterwards was it called the inbetween.
    False. It was never called "the Shadowlands". It was called "realm of shadows" and "shadow world". That's not the same thing.

    Established lore doesn't hold much water when you expand a concept beyond its original description, like the Shadowlands.
    Except it does. Because what you're offering is a massive retcon of already established lore because, as I and others have demonstrated numerous times, the Emerald Dream has been described and shown multiple times throughout the history of Warcraft, and always been described as the exact same thing, every time: a never-ending lush forest dimension.

    You continue to regurgitate this over and over,
    Because it's a well known fact that you keep ignoring.

    yet the amount of info is probably no more than Shadowlands' original info.
    Demonstrably false. And demonstrated as such

    You know it is a green forest and that it has a sinister equivalent known as the Emerald Nightmare. That's as much as knowing about heaven and hell in the afterlife.
    Also demonstrably false. And also demonstrated as such.

    Think about it. If Zereth Mortis served as the prototype to the afterlife, wouldn't the Emerald Dream, which is said to have multiple layers of testing beds, be kinda similar?
    No. It wouldn't. Because the two are not equivalent to each other in any way, shape or form.

    You've been to that place as much as quests sent you to the Shadowlands prior to 2019. If that place was really reachable, then the portals for it would send you there.
    That's the in-between.

    Dude, you can't call that real content. It is just a passageway.
    Stop with the dishonesty. We're not talking about "content". We're talking about what information we had about the Emerald Dream.

    Then, you're pretty stuck in your own bubble, unable to see much beyond what is offered to you.
    Projection, your honor!
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  5. #125
    The Emerald Dream should finally be a classic+ expansion.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Emerald Dream is just specific chunk of the Plane of Lofe, crafted specificslly for Azeroth.
    How do you know? The Shadowlands are not just a chuck of the plane of Death. They are the plane of Death.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    For someone who loves to demand examples, you so far have failed to show any proof that "the afterlife of animals has moved from the Emerald Dream to Ardenweald."
    Just look at my previous quote and compare it to what we got in Shadowlands. Wild Gods and Green Dragonflight (Ysera) in Ardenweald.

    Wow. You're being awfully dishonest here. "Barely been to that place". We have been there multiple times in the game. On top of that, we also have several novels talking about the Emerald Dream, sometimes in detail.
    Have you been to a place that is fully fleshed out? Or have you been to a small segment of a bigger concept? What do these novels say about the Emerald Dream, extensively?

    False. It was never called "the Shadowlands". It was called "realm of shadows" and "shadow world". That's not the same thing.
    They'd take you to the Shadowlands page once.
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Sha...ds#Appearances

    Do you realize all are the same names, right? Shadow Realm, Shadowlands, Shadow world are just different words to describe the same thing. Only in hindsight did it refer to something else, because they had to recton it once Shadowlands came out.

    Except it does. Because what you're offering is a massive retcon of already established lore because, as I and others have demonstrated numerous times, the Emerald Dream has been described and shown multiple times throughout the history of Warcraft, and always been described as the exact same thing, every time: a never-ending lush forest dimension.
    So were the Shadowlands a big retcon. Of Kyrians being the original Spirit Healers and not the Val'kyr; of Wild Gods going to Ardenweald instead of the Emerald Dream; of Maldraxxus being the birthplace of necromatic magic and the scourge; of Dreadlords being Undead creatures instead of Demons.

    No one said a lush, green forest wouldn't appear in an Emerald Dream expansion. We say it will include more than just that. Just like the afterlife includes more than just heaven and hell.

    Because it's a well known fact that you keep ignoring.
    There's no need to tell me about the green forest. We all know that. That's how one imagines the place when referring to the Emerald Dream. I'm just saying think bigger. Think outside the box. You saw how Shadowlands could expand on the concept of afterlife. So, it wouldn't be so hard to expand upon the concept of the dream.

    Demonstrably false. And demonstrated as such
    You have yet to demonstrate anything but claim such a thing. If you want someone to believe you, provide evidence.

    Also demonstrably false. And also demonstrated as such.
    Reapeating the same thing won't make you any righter. You can start by providing some sources for your claims.

    No. It wouldn't. Because the two are not equivalent to each other in any way, shape or form.
    They kinda are. You can't tell me you didn't get Emerald Dream vibes from Zereth Mortis. Plus, both are similar in purpose. Prototype versions of a finalized product.

    That's the in-between.
    Only after Shadowlands.

    "After World of Warcraft: Shadowlands, the Veil and the Shadowlands were confirmed to be different places."

    Stop with the dishonesty. We're not talking about "content". We're talking about what information we had about the Emerald Dream.
    We're talking content. An empty place is all nice and dandy but it does not utilize a concept's potential.
    And what information, exactly, did you get from that place?

    Projection, your honor!
    Is it true that you just like to object to any proposed idea out there and not really engage in any real debate?

  7. #127
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    I thought for a long time that the Emerald Dream would be an expansion, especially around Legion. They could always come back and mix it in as an expansion, but it feels like if they were going to do it that ship has sailed already.

  8. #128
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Just look at my previous quote and compare it to what we got in Shadowlands. Wild Gods and Green Dragonflight (Ysera) in Ardenweald.
    Your quote means nothing. I want something concrete that the "animal afterlife" has moved from the Dream to Ardenweald. I'll repeat: we don't see a single animal in Ardenweald that isn't native to that realm.

    Have you been to a place that is fully fleshed out?
    Your argument makes no sense, because we don't need it to be "fully fleshed out". Just fleshed out enough, which is the case of the Emerald Dream, thanks to all the stories, books, and in-game content we got expansion after expansion.

    Do you realize all are the same names, right? Shadow Realm, Shadowlands, Shadow world are just different words to describe the same thing.
    Not really. Just like "Lich King" isn't an actual lich, and "Icecrown" isn't an actual crown. A "realm of shadows" is not the same thing as "the Shadowlands" here.

    So were the Shadowlands a big retcon.
    It's not. Because, again, unlike the Emerald Dream, we had zero information about the Shadowlands.

    No one said a lush, green forest wouldn't appear in an Emerald Dream expansion.
    That's not what people are saying. People are saying we wouldn't have anything other than "lush, green forests" in the Emerald Dream. Because that is what all there is to the dream: never-ending lush verdant groves.

    There's no need to tell me about the green forest. We all know that.
    We have to keep repeating, because you keep ignoring it.

    That's how one imagines the place when referring to the Emerald Dream. I'm just saying think bigger. Think outside the box.
    You're trying to make the Emerald Dream into something it is not.

    You saw how Shadowlands could expand on the concept of afterlife. So, it wouldn't be so hard to expand upon the concept of the dream.
    Yes, it would be hard. Because, repeating once again that you keep ignoring it: we knew next to nothing about the Shadowlands, while we do have a wealth of information about the Emerald Dream.

    You have yet to demonstrate anything but claim such a thing. If you want someone to believe you, provide evidence.
    I have. You just predictably ignored it. Hell, you literally admitted we have been to the Dream in the very same paragraph you claimed we have never been to the Dream:
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    You haven't been to the Emerald Dream. You've been to replicas of it. Val'sharah? A created placed meant to resemble the dream. The dreamway? A small section with no content in it except for portals. The Emerald Nightmare? The nightmare versions of locations on Azeroth.

    Reapeating the same thing won't make you any righter.
    You should heed your own advice.

    You can start by providing some sources for your claims.
    You should heed your own advice. Also, like I said: I did. You just predictably ignored it.

    They kinda are. You can't tell me you didn't get Emerald Dream vibes from Zereth Mortis. Plus, both are similar in purpose. Prototype versions of a finalized product.
    No, I got absolutely zero "Emerald Dream" vibes out of Zereth Mortis. And no, they are absolutely not "similar in purpose".

    We're talking content.
    No. We're talking about information, not in-game content. Stop with the dishonesty.

    And what information, exactly, did you get from that place?
    Further information that the Emerald Dream is nothing but lush verdant forests.

    Is it true that you just like to object to any proposed idea out there and not really engage in any real debate?
    There's no debate. You're trying to make the Emerald Dream into something that it is not.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Your quote means nothing. I want something concrete that the "animal afterlife" has moved from the Dream to Ardenweald. I'll repeat: we don't see a single animal in Ardenweald that isn't native to that realm.[
    If you want to disregard the proofs i gave you, that's on you.

    Your argument makes no sense, because we don't need it to be "fully fleshed out". Just fleshed out enough, which is the case of the Emerald Dream, thanks to all the stories, books, and in-game content we got expansion after expansion.
    Why not? If you don't maximize a zone's potential, you're just wasting existing material.

    Not really. Just like "Lich King" isn't an actual lich, and "Icecrown" isn't an actual crown. A "realm of shadows" is not the same thing as "the Shadowlands" here.
    The Lich King has mastery over Frost as much, if not more, than other Liches.
    Icecrown is supposed to be the icy throne of the Lich King.
    How many realms of shadow do you think there are?

    It's not. Because, again, unlike the Emerald Dream, we had zero information about the Shadowlands.
    Sure, buddy. You had an entire page dedicated to it in the Chronicles.

    That's not what people are saying. People are saying we wouldn't have anything other than "lush, green forests" in the Emerald Dream. Because that is what all there is to the dream: never-ending lush verdant groves.
    And the Nightmare. You keep forgetting the nightmare.
    So... an afterlife would only have heaven or hell?

    We have to keep repeating, because you keep ignoring it.
    I'm not ignoring the obvious, i'm opening others to new ideas, which you cannot grasp because you're so centered on what exists that you can't imagine what doesn't exist yet. In short, you lack imagination.

    You're trying to make the Emerald Dream into something it is not.
    I'm trying to make the Emerald Dream into something that it could be. At least i'm trying. If it was up to you, WoW wouldn't go beyond what exists in vanilla WoW.

    Yes, it would be hard. Because, repeating once again that you keep ignoring it: we knew next to nothing about the Shadowlands, while we do have a wealth of information about the Emerald Dream.
    So, if you know something about a place, you can't expand upon it? Look at the Broken Isles. It had previous lore yet Blizzard reinvented it.

    I have. You just predictably ignored it. Hell, you literally admitted we have been to the Dream in the very same paragraph you claimed we have never been to the Dream:
    You do not know what an evidence is, do you? It takes more than just saying. You need to provide links, quotes, images, something.

    You should heed your own advice.
    I'm not the one insisting on the Emerald Dream being a green forest when everybody knows it so.

    You should heed your own advice. Also, like I said: I did. You just predictably ignored it.
    Where?

    No, I got absolutely zero "Emerald Dream" vibes out of Zereth Mortis. And no, they are absolutely not "similar in purpose".
    Really? Didn't it seem similar to Elunaria?

    No. We're talking about information, not in-game content. Stop with the dishonesty.
    So, you're perfectly fine with an area that provides absolutely nothing?

    Further information that the Emerald Dream is nothing but lush verdant forests.
    Just based on the looks? What a keen eyesight....

    There's no debate. You're trying to make the Emerald Dream into something that it is not.
    God forbid someone tries to innovate old lore.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post

    So, there couldn't be any other threats?


    The only real threat, as far as I know, was the nightmare. Xavvy baby has been dealt with twice, once in the stormrage book, and once in game. I'm sure they could make up some new lore just like how they do it every expansion, I'm more or less terrified of another shadowlands. I'm also scared of the constant green and red.

  11. #131
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    If you want to disregard the proofs i gave you, that's on you.
    Because you're talking about the in-between, not actual realm of the dead, Shadowlands.

    Why not? If you don't maximize a zone's potential, you're just wasting existing material.
    There is a difference between "maximizing potential" and then there's "making it into something it's not". You're arguing for the latter.

    The Lich King has mastery over Frost as much, if not more, than other Liches.
    I'm not talking about frost magic. I'm talking about someone called "lich" not being an actual lich. By your logic, Jaina is also a lich thanks to her mastery of frost magic.

    Icecrown is supposed to be the icy throne of the Lich King.
    But it's not called "Icethrone", is it? It's called Icecrown, and the zone is not a crown, is it?

    How many realms of shadow do you think there are?
    "Realms of shadow", or Shadowlands? Those are not one and the same.

    I'm not ignoring the obvious,
    You are. Because if you weren't, you'd see that your ideas would change the Emerald Dream into something it's not.

    So, if you know something about a place, you can't expand upon it? Look at the Broken Isles. It had previous lore yet Blizzard reinvented it.
    I'll repeat: there's a difference between "expanding a concept" and "making said concept into something it's not". Your ideas do the latter.

    You do not know what an evidence is, do you?
    That's rich coming from the guy who claims "we have never been to the Emerald Dream" despite the many quests and events were we do go into the Emerald Dream in WoW.

    I'm not the one insisting on the Emerald Dream being a green forest when everybody knows it so.
    Then why do you insist in making it into something it is not?

    Really? Didn't it seem similar to Elunaria?
    Elunaria is not the Emerald Dream, or Zereth-Mortis.

    So, you're perfectly fine with an area that provides absolutely nothing?
    What does that have to do with anything? And who said this area "provides absolutely nothing"? Whether is "provides absolutely nothing" or not is irrelevant. This is the problem with arguing with you. You keep changing your arguments so much, it borders on bait-and-switch.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
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    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  12. #132
    I feel like it'd be a patch or perhaps a zone akin to the one from MoP where you do dailies and possibly a future raid. Blizzard has just left the idea of the Emerald Dream to rot. With shadowlands adding in Ardenweald they kinda already gave us the Emerald Dream. Theres not much else to explore, I imagine the next expansion to deal with the void.

  13. #133
    Legendary! Ealyssa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    The Emerald Dream is as much an expansion worth of content as Shadowlands was..
    Not anymore no, it was but we dealt with all the problems there.

    It was a missed opportunity for sure. But Xavius' now dead and the nightmare was dealt with. Too little too late for anything Dream related.
    Quote Originally Posted by primalmatter View Post
    nazi is not the abbreviation of national socialism....
    When googling 4 letters is asking too much fact-checking.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    How do you know? Would it inevitably have an insufferable Sylvanas and Jailer storyline tied to it?
    We know this - because ED is the opposite/parallel of SL. But this is the realm of nature - we should expect green zones/creatures all over(unless they suddenly also have covenants).

    I honestly think that ED sounds borderline boring - and hoping for a zone at best.
    Last edited by HansOlo; 2022-10-06 at 07:47 PM.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by casecase89 View Post
    The only real threat, as far as I know, was the nightmare. Xavvy baby has been dealt with twice, once in the stormrage book, and once in game. I'm sure they could make up some new lore just like how they do it every expansion, I'm more or less terrified of another shadowlands. I'm also scared of the constant green and red.
    That's why things like the Drust and Thros, Incubus and other stuff would be refreshing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Because you're talking about the in-between, not actual realm of the dead, Shadowlands.
    We were talking about animal afterlife.
    By the way, the inbetween used to be refered to as the Shadowlands.

    There is a difference between "maximizing potential" and then there's "making it into something it's not". You're arguing for the latter.
    How do you know something is not? Was the Shadowlands not anything other than a shadowy realm of souls and everything they came up with is heresy?

    I'm not talking about frost magic. I'm talking about someone called "lich" not being an actual lich. By your logic, Jaina is also a lich thanks to her mastery of frost magic.
    She's a Mage. She doesn't combine necromancy with her Frost magic.

    But it's not called "Icethrone", is it? It's called Icecrown, and the zone is not a crown, is it?
    Also: kingdom, reign, royalty, monarchy, kingship, crown.

    "Realms of shadow", or Shadowlands? Those are not one and the same.
    Well. How many realms of shadows do you think there are?

    You are. Because if you weren't, you'd see that your ideas would change the Emerald Dream into something it's not.
    No, they wouldn't. They'd expand upon existing material.

    I'll repeat: there's a difference between "expanding a concept" and "making said concept into something it's not". Your ideas do the latter.
    What's your idea of expanding then?

    That's rich coming from the guy who claims "we have never been to the Emerald Dream" despite the many quests and events were we do go into the Emerald Dream in WoW.
    *fully.
    That's a big difference.

    Then why do you insist in making it into something it is not?
    Because it has more potential than that. Look at the Shadowlands. Something that should have been nothing more than shadowy realms. Yet, they've managed to develop the concept into something else entirely.

    Elunaria is not the Emerald Dream, or Zereth-Mortis.
    I know that. But, all of them kind of reference that place.

    What does that have to do with anything? And who said this area "provides absolutely nothing"? Whether is "provides absolutely nothing" or not is irrelevant. This is the problem with arguing with you. You keep changing your arguments so much, it borders on bait-and-switch.
    Because that's not my idea of Emerald Dream content. Is a portal room content to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Itori View Post
    Theres not much else to explore.
    I beg to differ. There just needs to be more than what is known.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    Not anymore no, it was but we dealt with all the problems there.

    It was a missed opportunity for sure. But Xavius' now dead and the nightmare was dealt with. Too little too late for anything Dream related.
    You really think that raid is the culmination of everything Emerald Dream and Nightmare? Come on... there could be much more than just a satyr in red.

    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    We know this - because ED is the opposite/parallel of SL. But this is the realm of nature - we should expect green zones/creatures all over(unless they suddenly also have covenants).

    I honestly think that ED sounds borderline boring - and hoping for a zone at best.
    It's the opposite of Ardenweald.
    And, by your logic, the Shadowlands would have been all Undead and rot. But, that wasn't the case, was it?

  16. #136
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
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    I would have loved it to be a expansion but that wont likely ever happen

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Engal View Post
    With the inevitable " life realm " expack, the Emerald dream will be a patch, or both will overlaps. ED can be a patch of the Life Realm Expack though.
    Yeeeeah, that’s not what The Emerald Dream is.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by THEORACLE64 View Post
    Yeeeeah, that’s not what The Emerald Dream is.
    Pretty sure the Emerald Dream is on the side of the Life cosmic realm.

  19. #139
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    We were talking about animal afterlife.
    The animal afterlife? I didn't ignore your evidence. I've shown you how your evidence is bogus because you used a screenshot from an article talking about soulshapes and that those weren't actual animals in the picture.

    How do you know something is not?
    Do you think deserts fit the "lush verdant forests" concept of the Emerald Dream?

    Was the Shadowlands not anything other than a shadowy realm of souls and everything they came up with is heresy?
    No, it wasn't. That was the in-between and, again, we had hints of afterlives for the longest time in WoW.

    She's a Mage. She doesn't combine necromancy with her Frost magic.
    And now you're moving goalposts. First you say the Lich King is an actual lich "because they master frost magic", and now you move goalposts to saying "but they use necromancy too" when I point out the ludicrousness of your argument when I point out that your argument makes Jaina into a lich.

    Also: kingdom, reign, royalty, monarchy, kingship, crown.
    You're taking words that are not synonym to each other and grouping them together. They may be related to each other, but they are not each other. Because you keep insisting that the Emerald Dream is an actual dream because of the word "dream" in its name.

    Well. How many realms of shadows do you think there are?
    Answer my question first, please.

    No, they wouldn't. They'd expand upon existing material.
    Giving deserts to the Emerald Dream is changing it into something it's not. Again, the Emerald Dream has never been described as anything but "lush verdant forests".

    What's your idea of expanding then?
    Giving more to a concept while staying true to its original conception. And not, y'know, giving deserts to the Emerald Dream,

    *fully.
    That's a big difference.
    Except you never said "fully":
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    You haven't been to the Emerald Dream.

    Because it has more potential than that. Look at the Shadowlands. Something that should have been nothing more than shadowy realms. Yet, they've managed to develop the concept into something else entirely.
    We keep going in circles because you refuse to accept the facts we knew next to nothing about the Shadowlands prior to the Shadowlands aside from small hints of afterlives, while we have a wealth of information about the Emerald Dream from countless in-game quests, stories and books.

    I know that. But, all of them kind of reference that place.
    No, they don't. No more than any random forest area "references" the Emerald Dream.

    Because that's not my idea of Emerald Dream content. Is a portal room content to you?
    We're not talking about "in-game content". We're talking about information regarding the Emerald Dream. And in that case, yes, a portal room in the Emerald Dream is information about the Emerald Dream.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Engal View Post
    With the inevitable " life realm " expack, the Emerald dream will be a patch, or both will overlaps. ED can be a patch of the Life Realm Expack though.
    Given how Shadowlands was received, I significantly doubt we're going to get a "Life realm" expansion or see cosmic stuff for a while

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