The Emerald Dream: an Expansion or a Patch?

[username993720]

In this video, Taliesin argues that the Emerald Dream should only constitute a patch. While i agree that Emerald Dream content is on the horizon, i totally disagree with the stance that the Emerald Dream is only a patch worth of content. The Emerald Dream is as much an expansion worth of content as Shadowlands was. Now, i'm not talking about the quality of execution here, but on the amount such a lore location can provide. The Emerald Dream can be much more than just a green, lush forest. I even made a concept thread for such an expansion, toying around with the nature of dreams:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ream-Expansion
Think about it. Dreams can be whatever the developers would like them to be. It's extremely versatile and flexible. Even if not based on dreams, but on the blueprint of Azeroth, it can still have a variety of terrains, like forests, deserts, snowy or aquatic landscapes. Taliesin goes on to argue that Nazjatar can constitute an entire expansion. How so? It is but a city. 5 zones of aquatic landscapes like Vash'jir sounds exciting or original? The only other place i can think of is Mak'aru, the capital city of the Makrura. If it is Night elven ruins he is interested in, then there can be an ancient Kalimdor expansion where we explore the ancient Night elven empire, like in a concept thread i made:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...mdor-Expansion
But, making the Emerald Dream into a patch worth of content would waste its huge potential. We've known about this place since classic WoW and were always curious of what it holds inside (the different portals scattered around Azeroth). Yes, we've seen bits and pieces of it in Legion with the Emerald Nightmare and Val'sharah. But, it is only a small and generic portion of what the place can contain. Think about it. The Dragon Isles were nothing more than an Old God shrine in concept. Yet, we have a full-on expansion of it right now even though it featured as part of the Shrine of Storms in BfA. The Shadowlands, for example, were nothing more than a grey filter upon death. Yet, they managed to make it into a whole expansion. Now, i realize that there is the danger of ruining the mystery around that place once its fully fleshed out. But, they kind of don't have a choice. They are running out of lore places to introduce. What do you guys think? Should it be an expansion or a patch? Please explain your decision.

[Caiphon]

It's a bit unfortunate that Xavius and the Nightmare was already dealt with in a single raid bakc in Legion, but I'd support an Emerald Dream expansion. Though I loathed the alternate universe shenenigans I enjoyed seeing an alternate version of Outland in WoD, and a Dream expansion could basically feature alternate Azeroth without the AU business. Interacting with Elune (or at least her proxies) would also be exciting as she's a very prominent figure in Warcraft lore.

[Lochton]

Patch, please, please, patch and not expansion. Going to the Shadowlands should've been 1-2 patches in my opinion..

[OMGTwitchTV]

Well, likely just a patch since we already had the Dreamway, the "nightmare", and Valsharah in Legion. Also, the Emerald dream was specific to Druids, not Dragons, so if we do get a patch for it, we'd likely only get a small history glimpse of the green dragonflight... Ysondre, Ysera... etc

[Rozz]

I think a patch is fine because it allows them to tell a focused narrative without diluting the appeal of the setting too much. That much I can agree with.

I would prefer a single zone that they can add onto/connect to other future ideas down the line. It's not that the Emerald Dream lacks potential, but I don't believe they can pull it off effectively.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Should've been an expansion but Blizzard decided to throw away all of the expansion ideas people cared about in Legion and BFA.

[username993720]

Patch, please, please, patch and not expansion. Going to the Shadowlands should've been 1-2 patches in my opinion..

But, why?

Well, likely just a patch since we already had the Dreamway, the "nightmare", and Valsharah in Legion. Also, the Emerald dream was specific to Druids, not Dragons, so if we do get a patch for it, we'd likely only get a small history glimpse of the green dragonflight... Ysondre, Ysera... etc

The dreamway was nothing but a connection point. Val'sharah is not actually part of the dream, but an attempt to mirror it. And, the Emerald Nightmare only featured this specific Legion zone.

It's not that the Emerald Dream lacks potential, but I don't believe they can pull it off effectively.

Perhaps. But, what makes them nail the Dragon Isles but not the Emerald Dream?

Should've been an expansion but Blizzard decided to throw away all of the expansion ideas people cared about in Legion and BFA.

Why do you think so? They brought the Dragon Isles alive and there are still other places we have yet to visit.

[Kayb]

I think the Emerald Dream ship has long since sailed. I doubt we're ever going there now.

[Usernameforforums]

Neither. We got it already.

[Auxis]

It's a bit unfortunate that Xavius and the Nightmare was already dealt with in a single raid bakc in Legion, but I'd support an Emerald Dream expansion. Though I loathed the alternate universe shenenigans I enjoyed seeing an alternate version of Outland in WoD, and a Dream expansion could basically feature alternate Azeroth without the AU business. Interacting with Elune (or at least her proxies) would also be exciting as she's a very prominent figure in Warcraft lore.

Isn't there still the remnants of the Void left in the ED after Xavius? There was that flower in the cave, wasn't there?
Or did we deal with that at some point in BFA?

[Stickiler]

The Emerald Dream is as much an expansion worth of content as Shadowlands was.

Did you miss the part of the video where Taliesin states that Shadowlands also should have been a Patch? His point is that the content was stretched too thin for an expansion, and that caused a lot of issues with Shadowlands.

[Nymrohd]

During the story of WoW there was an expansion worthy storyline that could have led us to the Dream with the Stormrage novel. It could have followed Wrath and preceded Cataclysm.

[Itisamuh]

Yeah I'm going to have to disagree with saying Shadowlands should've only been a single patch cause that's completely ridiculous. That would've been even more absurd than N'zoth being a single patch was. Patch stories should only be parts of whatever major plot the expansion's about. Major enemies or worlds shouldn't be added and removed in a single patch either cause then they'll simply run out of ideas too quickly.

[Iheartnathanos]

Genuinely hope there is never a ‘planar’ expansion again. Everyone always bemoans the fact that Nyalotha was only a patch but c’mon, do you want an entire expansion of purple swirlies and tentacles?

[Rorixis]

I feel like the Emerald dream is this enduring thing that we can keep coming back to over and over, similar to caverns of time. Makes more sense to use as patch content multiple times rather than burn it all on 1 expansion. But it is kinda weird that they have used it so little so far.

[username993720]

I think the Emerald Dream ship has long since sailed. I doubt we're ever going there now.

Then, you miss the obvious hints.

Neither. We got it already.

Hardly.

Did you miss the part of the video where Taliesin states that Shadowlands also should have been a Patch? His point is that the content was stretched too thin for an expansion, and that caused a lot of issues with Shadowlands.

So was WoD. That was because of development time. Doesn't mean WoD's initial experience wasn't good.

Yeah I'm going to have to disagree with saying Shadowlands should've only been a single patch cause that's completely ridiculous. That would've been even more absurd than N'zoth being a single patch was. Patch stories should only be parts of whatever major plot the expansion's about. Major enemies or worlds shouldn't be added and removed in a single patch either cause then they'll simply run out of ideas too quickly.

That's exactly what i'm trying to say. You can't condense that much material into a single patch.

Genuinely hope there is never a ‘planar’ expansion again. Everyone always bemoans the fact that Nyalotha was only a patch but c’mon, do you want an entire expansion of purple swirlies and tentacles?

Weird that people object non-azerothian expansions, yet TBC was received very well.

I feel like the Emerald dream is this enduring thing that we can keep coming back to over and over, similar to caverns of time. Makes more sense to use as patch content multiple times rather than burn it all on 1 expansion. But it is kinda weird that they have used it so little so far.

Would make more sense than a single patch.

[Lochton]

But, why?

Why?

Did you see what happened with Shadowlands? The disconnection it felt from the story because you aren't going to anyone's home or world except where a fraction of WoW lore has been tied to until the expansion revealed more?

Yeah, that is Emerald Dream as well. We've seen a fraction of it through the druids, and we know that the dragons and satyr are part of it, nothing more.

After Shadowlands I've come to the conclusion that we shouldn't venture to celestial or power planes as a whole expansion.

[loras]

It's a bit unfortunate that Xavius and the Nightmare was already dealt with in a single raid bakc in Legion, but I'd support an Emerald Dream expansion. Though I loathed the alternate universe shenenigans I enjoyed seeing an alternate version of Outland in WoD, and a Dream expansion could basically feature alternate Azeroth without the AU business. Interacting with Elune (or at least her proxies) would also be exciting as she's a very prominent figure in Warcraft lore.

Xavius has been dealt with before, as have the old gods.
There is very little that prevents them from returning, and even "dead" they are still active as seen with Yogg-Saron's activity in Legion and C'thun's activity during Cataclysm. Arhuably Thros' (the plane of the dead Drust) relevance into Shadowlands demonstrates that the Emerald Nightmare is nowhere near defeated, and N'zoth's influence nowhere near ended.

So yeah, in an emerald dream expansion they would have even more options than you state here.

[LemonDemonGirl]

I think we already got our Emerald Dream expansion when Legion came out

[Lochton]

Xavius has been dealt with before, as have the old gods.
There is very little that prevents them from returning, and even "dead" they are still active as seen with Yogg-Saron's activity in Legion and C'thun's activity during Cataclysm. Arhuably Thros' (the plane of the dead Drust) relevance into Shadowlands demonstrates that the Emerald Nightmare is nowhere near defeated, and N'zoth's influence nowhere near ended.

So yeah, in an emerald dream expansion they would have even more options than you state here.

Yoggy and C'thun I believe aren't dead but just defeated. Not sure but I've been told that there are 2 gods left. As for the Nightmare, even with out Xavius, it is a thing of the dream, and it will never go away.