Last edited by username993720; 2022-11-01 at 05:49 PM.
My question is, if that's the case, why, when you 'kill' him, the entire place doesn't just vanish since the entire place is Nzoth?
Case in point, Yogg is confirmed to still be alive. C'thun and Nzoth are also both presumed to still be alive in some way because of that. Nzoth just has way more actual evidence to that than C'thun.
Wasn’t it like the husk on the outside and his body we fight in the last battle is the central core of him.
That’s what I was under the impression of and hadn’t they basically said that somewhere.
Squid Nzoth that we saw was what is inside the husk that has spread everywhere
Yes. There is. Because the Cataclysm expansion is featured in that anniversary event edition.
Except the character in the book is literally "pulling that out of their ass". It's just an hypothesis that he has where the sole logic reads "this happened here, so it should have happened there".Just because someone might be biased, it doesn't mean they pull it out of their assess. They wrote it for a reason, not just for fun and giggles.
How many times have we seen An'she do anything? Can you cite some examples? Because we have seen Elune do stuff several times before.What isn't real?
The goddamn Moon goddess can be real but not the Sun one? Come on...
This is about your claim. You are the one who used Odyn's words as fact after claiming several times before that they're liars. Seems like double-standards to me.Oh, so you agree that they are liars?
Except, it wasn't. At least insofar as where current lore is concerned. If Dragonflight changes that, you might have a point, depending on how much and how they retcon it.It's irrelevant in the cosmic scale of things because, like you said, it is a Titanic Watcher's domain. Unlike the Emerald Dream, which is on the cosmic scale of stuff and therefore must have been created by the First Ones.
No, we didn't. Again: count the times we went to those places in the lore. If you put them all together, it's still less than the amount of times we went to the Emerald Dream.We knew about as much as we know about the Emerald Dream.
And Thros is still the Emerald Nightmare. It looks like the Emerald Nightmare. That's the point. Thros is still the Emerald Nightmare.What?
The fact is that you never knew it existed in all of the ED's numerous descriptions and appearances. That means that they introduce new things into an already established place.
The Shadowlands span the entire universe. The Emerald Dream encompasses only Azeroth.Because you've got the Shadowlands there.
I never said that the lore can't or shouldn't change. That was never the point of my arguments. The point is changing the Emerald Dream into something it's not. Again: there is "expanding a concept while staying true to its original concept", and then there is "changing a concept into something else entirely". And you want the latter for the Emerald Dream. In other words: you want Draenor to stop existing so Outland can exist.Good. That's how you know established lore can change.
Wow. Did you forget that the only resources we brought with us to alternate Draenor when we stormed the reopened Dark Portal was only what we had in our pockets at the time, right? And if you can't recall, or don't want to, Khadgar specifically mentions that he can open a portal for only a short moment when he summons the Horde and Alliance workers to work in the Garrisons. Khadgar was alone, the only mage in the group. After he returns, he conscripts more mages to aid him to make more permanent portals in Ashran and in his new tower in Talador.Let's see... Dark Portal gets blasted. Khadgar can still use his magical powers. Waiting for the player to establish a Garrison. Now would be a good time for Khadgar to use his magical powers.
You already made that admission about the felstorm, so yes, you are using Anduin and Sylvanas as the hints as they fall into the exact same situation.I've also used Anduin's Light magic and Sylvanas' Banshee powers as hints towards Light and Void themes. Doesn't mean i meant Anduin and Sylvanas are the hints.
But it doesn't work like kryptonite, where its simple presence is enough to weaken the titans. Again, even counting the fel magic, I doubt Sargeras would be able to kill them all if they were attacked at the same time and were aware of their brother's betrayal.They were subdued by him because they are vulnerable to Fel magic.
They combined what strength they have and all worked together to pull and imprison Sargeras. So, yes, that does seem reasonable.And again, you're talking about entities that were not bigger than a house imprisoning a planet-sized titan. Does this seem reasonable?
"Floating rocks". You mean, the planets? Demons don't live in small, drifting asteroids devoid of life, just waiting for it to fall on a planet to start infesting it, you know?I meant the empty space.
Titans can still squash them on floating space rocks they inhabit.
"Y'Shaarj, however, proved much too strong for the titan-forged to defeat, which prompted the titan leader Aman'Thul to reach down his arm and tear Y'Shaarj apart. This created a giant gaping wound in the planet's crust from which the arcane lifeblood of Azeroth, the nascent titan, was hemorrhaging."They would purposefully give themselves a disadvantage against the demons?
By the way, Aman'thul was quite precise when he pulled off Y'shaarj.
... Yes. Very precise, indeed. (/sarcasm)
Somewhat a matter of semantics that it's not specified which undefined part of N'Zoth we're fighting—the Old Gods don't have normal biology, and the organ we fight is presumably just another mound of flesh more than a functional organ worth specifying, albeit evidently a particularly vulnerable one. The Matryoshka quality isn't really that far off from what I was saying. It's a component of N'Zoth, whereas the rest of his body is the towering entity we see there. The Old Gods are definitely far larger than the small pustules we're busy killing in their respective raids—again, I point towards Yogg-Saron's brain being far larger than the bulk of his "body" and his tentacles reaching all the way to Vordrassil in Grizzly Hills in one instance and N'Zoth's vast body in another. I doubt the body we see there is a husk or extension because this is also consistent with the scale of C'Thun as we saw him in Chronicles, who also towered over his temple-city. Even beyond his appearance in Ny'Alotha, we see other extensions of his body stretch as far as Kul'Tiras, constituting the Crucible of Storms.
I wouldn't call it a husk. That's N'zoth.
What you fought was a modified model of him.
And so is every other expansion?
You're not reading into the mind of a Broker. You're reading a developer's work. This isn't the result of his free time shenanigans.Except the character in the book is literally "pulling that out of their ass". It's just an hypothesis that he has where the sole logic reads "this happened here, so it should have happened there".
Do you need to see to believe in a video game? A fantasy video game?How many times have we seen An'she do anything? Can you cite some examples? Because we have seen Elune do stuff several times before.
So, he's lying about life being chaotic but they aren't lying about creating the Emerald Dream? You need to decide.This is about your claim. You are the one who used Odyn's words as fact after claiming several times before that they're liars. Seems like double-standards to me.
I'm not living in the moment like you. I work things out based on the things we got recently. That is, "the titans tend to appropriate things that they didn't do".Except, it wasn't. At least insofar as where current lore is concerned. If Dragonflight changes that, you might have a point, depending on how much and how they retcon it.
As far as i'm concerned, we've seen the same zone just different parts of it. It's just one green forest.No, we didn't. Again: count the times we went to those places in the lore. If you put them all together, it's still less than the amount of times we went to the Emerald Dream.
And Thros is still the Emerald Nightmare. It looks like the Emerald Nightmare. That's the point. Thros is still the Emerald Nightmare.
This looks like the Emerald Nightmare?
Unlikely. It features on the cosmic map.The Shadowlands span the entire universe. The Emerald Dream encompasses only Azeroth.
We were under the impression that the Shadowlands were the afterlives for Azerothians only until the Shadowlands expansion came out.
Did Draenor become not Draenor with WoW?I never said that the lore can't or shouldn't change. That was never the point of my arguments. The point is changing the Emerald Dream into something it's not. Again: there is "expanding a concept while staying true to its original concept", and then there is "changing a concept into something else entirely". And you want the latter for the Emerald Dream. In other words: you want Draenor to stop existing so Outland can exist.
Staying true to its nature means there will be a green forest zone. Expanding it means there will be more than just that.
Conclusion: magic solves everything.Wow. Did you forget that the only resources we brought with us to alternate Draenor when we stormed the reopened Dark Portal was only what we had in our pockets at the time, right? And if you can't recall, or don't want to, Khadgar specifically mentions that he can open a portal for only a short moment when he summons the Horde and Alliance workers to work in the Garrisons. Khadgar was alone, the only mage in the group. After he returns, he conscripts more mages to aid him to make more permanent portals in Ashran and in his new tower in Talador.
Jesus christ... what do you not understand about metaphors? Not Anduin, not Sylvanas and not the Felstorm serve as hints, but what their colors imply at.You already made that admission about the felstorm, so yes, you are using Anduin and Sylvanas as the hints as they fall into the exact same situation.
That's exactly what it is.But it doesn't work like kryptonite, where its simple presence is enough to weaken the titans. Again, even counting the fel magic, I doubt Sargeras would be able to kill them all if they were attacked at the same time and were aware of their brother's betrayal.
"Aggramar, thinking that his former friend could still be reasoned with, approached Sargeras unarmed, but in response the fel-corrupted titan killed Aggramar with a single blow. Outraged, the Pantheon attacked, but even the combined might of the titans could not stand against the dark titan's fel might. Before long, the titans were all dead."
He single-handedly killed them all in the same battle.
So, an Avatar-sized titan has almost enough strength as a planet-sized titan? Got it. Now, the question is: Did they combine their efforts because they were weakened or because he's stronger as a Fel being (given how he defeated them all).They combined what strength they have and all worked together to pull and imprison Sargeras. So, yes, that does seem reasonable.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Dreadscar_Rift"Floating rocks". You mean, the planets? Demons don't live in small, drifting asteroids devoid of life, just waiting for it to fall on a planet to start infesting it, you know?
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Mar...hattered_Abyss
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Niskara
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Xandros
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Shadowgore_Citadel
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Twi...rd%27s_Return)
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Twi...ing_the_Twins)
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Twi...lfire_Citadel)
Of course it happened because Y'shaarj was a parasite. Meaning, he latched himself on to Azeroth. Pulling a parasite creates a wound unless you have medical equipment. I meant that he didn't just smash him and damage half of azeroth doing that. He tried to pulk Y'shaarj alone, unaware that he borrowed himself too deep into the planet. When you try to get a tick off of a dog, you damage half of his body doing that?"Y'Shaarj, however, proved much too strong for the titan-forged to defeat, which prompted the titan leader Aman'Thul to reach down his arm and tear Y'Shaarj apart. This created a giant gaping wound in the planet's crust from which the arcane lifeblood of Azeroth, the nascent titan, was hemorrhaging."
... Yes. Very precise, indeed. (/sarcasm)
Which, we can't fight gameplay-wise. That's why the devs have to make small versions of them for the players to fight.
Last edited by username993720; 2022-11-02 at 12:32 PM.
So, I thought I had fled this bickering because it was turning to a circle jerk and now return to see that you... agreed with what I said a while back.
Thros is not the Emerald Nightmare or the Emerald Dream, it is an area between various locations in which the Drust sought refuge after fleeing, having reached out and found a connection to the Nightmare but they did not know anything about what the Emerald Nightmare was, other than they had to get away from it, and thus found Thros, which connects as well to Fate's End, Drustvar, and Ardenweald.
FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..
No, we fight a small part of it, inside it.
And? You're moving the goalposts. Your claim was that because the 15th anniversary wasn't exclusively about the Cataclysm expansion, then we shouldn't have gotten the Obsidian Worldbreaker mount.And so is every other expansion?
We're reading the work of a writer that is telling us what's in the mind of a Broker. So, yes, all that the broker says about a possible "pantheon of life" is just that: musings.You're not reading into the mind of a Broker. You're reading a developer's work. This isn't the result of his free time shenanigans.
Just because it's a video game story doesn't mean there is no folklore and myths.Do you need to see to believe in a video game? A fantasy video game?
I don't have to, because this isn't the double-standard you think it is. Because we have lore that shows that Odyn is lying. We don't have any lore that contradicts the claim that Freya created the Emerald Dream.So, he's lying about life being chaotic but they aren't lying about creating the Emerald Dream? You need to decide.
It's not that I "only live in the moment". I just don't accept bullshit. And saying a felstorm is a reference to the Emerald Dream, and that Bolvar is a reference to the Dragonflight expansion are just that: bullshit.I'm not living in the moment like you.
Well, you're wrong, then. Because just from the Emerald Nightmare instance, we see that the Emerald Dream encompasses at least Grizzly Hills, Un'Goro Crater, Mulgore and Moonglade.As far as i'm concerned, we've seen the same zone just different parts of it. It's just one green forest.
We literally have lore stating that the only reason the drust don't call Thros 'the Emerald Nightmare' is because they weren't aware of the Nightmare's existence in the first place. You want to hear about a similar example in real life? The natives of the American continents were called 'indians' for the longest time because the first colonizers to touch american soil thought they reached "the Indies", which was how they called the asian continent, and the name stuck.This looks like the Emerald Nightmare?
You're going against current established lore.Unlikely.
No, we weren't.We were under the impression that the Shadowlands were the afterlives for Azerothians only.
Is the main landmass for the TBC expansion called 'Draenor'?Did Draenor become not Draenor with WoW?
No. "Staying true to its nature" means the entire place being a green forest zone, and encompassing just Azeroth, and not the entire cosmos. Because that is what the Emerald Dream is.Staying true to its nature means there will be a green forest zone. Expanding it means there will be more than just that.
Are you really that surprised that, in an universe defined by magic, magic is a powerful tool? Really? Either way, you completely missed the point. This is no different than a normal expedition, where a first group, usually small, is sent ahead to establish a forward base, and then the rest of the expedition comes along with the rest of the equipment.Conclusion: magic solves everything.
I understand metaphors just fine. And you already admitted to the fact that if you use an aspect of something, you are using said something.Jesus christ... what do you not understand about metaphors? Not Anduin, not Sylvanas and not the Felstorm serve as hints, but what their colors imply at.
What part of "having to combine their strengths" did you not get?So, an Avatar-sized titan has almost enough strength as a planet-sized titan? Got it.
I'll repeat: the Twisting Nether is not the universe.https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Dreadscar_Rift
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Mar...hattered_Abyss
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Niskara
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Xandros
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Shadowgore_Citadel
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Twi...rd%27s_Return)
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Twi...ing_the_Twins)
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Twi...lfire_Citadel)
But I thought you said the Titans were "very precise" to the point of being able to remove infestations of entities the size of specks of dust? There is no way the Titans can swing their weapons and blast their magics against a planet taken over by demons without severely damaging the planet they're on. Again: hammer to kill an ant on an apple.Of course it happened because Y'shaarj was a parasite. Meaning, he latched himself on to Azeroth. Pulling a parasite creates a wound unless you have medical equipment. I meant that he didn't just smash him and damage half of azeroth doing that. He tried to pulk Y'shaarj alone, unaware that he borrowed himself too deep into the planet. When you try to get a tick off of a dog, you damage half of his body doing that?
I'd also like to point out that the OP asked for opinions on whether or not the ED would be patch content or an expansion, and then they proceeded to not take said opinions and instead bicker that they are right - and now attests vehemently that we've killed the Old Gods permanently (of which it is patently shown that if an Old God dies, all of Azeroth gets irreparably damaged).
So, uh, good thread?
Do you not know what a branch of the Emerald Nightmare is?
You fight a small part of it and now it is gone? The world is rid of Old Gods? Why would a massive octopus be dependent on a tiny part of itself to achieve its goal?
Exactly. Deathwing doesn't even feature there.And? You're moving the goalposts. Your claim was that because the 15th anniversary wasn't exclusively about the Cataclysm expansion, then we shouldn't have gotten the Obsidian Worldbreaker mount.
And so is the knowledge of the Titans? I'll remind you that the Chronicles are supposed to be from the P.O.V of the Titans and, therefore, subjective. But, i don't assume you take the information there with a grain of salt.We're reading the work of a writer that is telling us what's in the mind of a Broker. So, yes, all that the broker says about a possible "pantheon of life" is just that: musings.
Anything refuted that you know of?Just because it's a video game story doesn't mean there is no folklore and myths.
We do have. That the Titanic Watchers are instructed to lie. That they are instructed to twist history.I don't have to, because this isn't the double-standard you think it is. Because we have lore that shows that Odyn is lying. We don't have any lore that contradicts the claim that Freya created the Emerald Dream.
You've never wondered beyond what is currently happening lore-wise.It's not that I "only live in the moment". I just don't accept bullshit. And saying a felstorm is a reference to the Emerald Dream, and that Bolvar is a reference to the Dragonflight expansion are just that: bullshit.
Azeroth reflections of the DreamWell, you're wrong, then. Because just from the Emerald Nightmare instance, we see that the Emerald Dream encompasses at least Grizzly Hills, Un'Goro Crater, Mulgore and Moonglade.
Gilneas City
Grizzly Hills
Ursoc's Lair
Moonglade
Mount Hyjal
Mulgore
Un'Goro Crater
You've only seen:
The Dream's heart
Ancient Rest
Emerald Dreamway
Which are all the same green forest.
I've asked you a question. Does it look like the Emerald Nightmare?We literally have lore stating that the only reason the drust don't call Thros 'the Emerald Nightmare' is because they weren't aware of the Nightmare's existence in the first place. You want to hear about a similar example in real life? The natives of the American continents were called 'indians' for the longest time because the first colonizers to touch american soil thought they reached "the Indies", which was how they called the asian continent, and the name stuck.
That's your problem. You're so hooked to current lore that you can't see beyond it.You're going against current established lore.
Yes, we were.No, we weren't.
Where was it mentioned that the Shadowlands encompasses the entire universe before?
Previously Draenor.Is the main landmass for the TBC expansion called 'Draenor'?
No. Staying true to the source material means you have the foundation but that you also explore other possibilities.No. "Staying true to its nature" means the entire place being a green forest zone, and encompassing just Azeroth, and not the entire cosmos. Because that is what the Emerald Dream is.
Then, the destruction of the Dark Portal doesn't mean much.Are you really that surprised that, in an universe defined by magic, magic is a powerful tool? Really? Either way, you completely missed the point. This is no different than a normal expedition, where a first group, usually small, is sent ahead to establish a forward base, and then the rest of the expedition comes along with the rest of the equipment.
Then, realize that i'm referring to the Emerald color recurring appearance throughout the cinematic.I understand metaphors just fine. And you already admitted to the fact that if you use an aspect of something, you are using said something.
You really don't get size differences, do you?What part of "having to combine their strengths" did you not get?
I'll repeat: killing demons doesn't take special procedure.I'll repeat: the Twisting Nether is not the universe.
Have you used twizers or blown pimples before?But I thought you said the Titans were "very precise" to the point of being able to remove infestations of entities the size of specks of dust? There is no way the Titans can swing their weapons and blast their magics against a planet taken over by demons without severely damaging the planet they're on. Again: hammer to kill an ant on an apple.
Huh? Where did i say we killed the Old Gods for good?
Why are you saying this, after you've been told that old gods didn't die when we defeated them? N'Zoth is not dead. Neither is any of the gods. Hell, even Y'shaarj who got ripped to pieces is still alive.
Deathwing is the most memorable character from the Cataclysm expansion.Exactly. Deathwing doesn't even feature there.
There's a difference between a character asserting knowledge, and a character offering a hypothesis. The Titans are asserting knowledge by describing how things are. The broker is just offering a hypothesis by offering a possibility.And so is the knowledge of the Titans? I'll remind you that the Chronicles are supposed to be from the P.O.V of the Titans and, therefore, subjective. But, i don't assume you take the information there with a grain of salt.
I didn't say anything about refutations. I simply pointed out that we haven't heard anything about An'shee that isn't pure folklore so far. We haven't witnessed the god act, like Elune has.Anything refuted that you know of?
That is not concrete evidence, because it doesn't mean that everything they said is false.We do have. That the Titanic Watchers are instructed to lie. That they are instructed to twist history.
I have. But I don't go saying "maybe the Emerald Dream is not the Emerald Dream" or "maybe there's a desert, and rocky mountains, and lava in the Emerald Dream". Y'know, going against established lore?You've never wondered beyond what is currently happening lore-wise.
Considering the Emerald Dream is a reflection of Azeroth if mortals never arose, that is to be expected?Azeroth reflections of the Dream
Aw, geez. It's almost as if the lore of the Emerald Dream is that it's lush green forests. Oh wait...You've only seen:
The Dream's heart
Ancient Rest
Emerald Dreamway
Which are all the same green forest.
Making up nonsense is not a worthy debate. Would you accept the fact that the planet neighbor to Azeroth is the Zerg homeworld? Maybe we'll find Cybertron somewhere in the cosmos too?That's your problem. You're so hooked to current lore that you can't see beyond it.
It doesn't work that way. You're the one asserting knowledge, so the burden of proof is on your shoulders to show that we were told/implied that the Shadowlands were just for Azeroth.Yes, we were.
Where was it mentioned that the Shadowlands encompasses the entire universe before?
That was not my question. I asked what is the main landmass for TBC expansion called? Hint: it's not Draenor.Previously Draenor.
Possibilities that are restricted to the foundation. And if the foundation does not allow for anything other than green forests, then deserts, rocky mountains and other wastelands are not possible.No. Staying true to the source material means you have the foundation but that you also explore other possibilities.
... It literally stopped the Iron Horde from trampling into Azeroth. How is that "not much"? Not to mention that was the sole reason why we destroyed the portal.Then, the destruction of the Dark Portal doesn't mean much.
Which has already been explained to be bunk. Fel magic is not a reference to the Emerald Dream, and small pixels in what is otherwise a blue glow also are not references to the Emerald Dream. Just like Bolvar's current form is not a reference to the Dragonflight expansion.Then, realize that i'm referring to the Emerald color recurring appearance throughout the cinematic.
What does that have to do with anything? You'd have a point if we had one diminished titan against Sargeras, but we had all the remaining titans pooling together their remaining strength to imprison Sargeras.You really don't get size differences, do you?
It requires the Titans to make themselves smaller so they don't destroy the planet while ridding it of demons.I'll repeat: killing demons doesn't take special procedure.
You literally just said this:Huh? Where did i say we killed the Old Gods for good?
For what reason are we fighting their smaller versions which results in the end of their activities?
Then, you'd think he would appear as a boss. But, he doesn't. And, again, this anniversary is not about the Cataclysm.Deathwing is the most memorable character from the Cataclysm expansion.
Assertions which we know to be false.There's a difference between a character asserting knowledge, and a character offering a hypothesis. The Titans are asserting knowledge by describing how things are. The broker is just offering a hypothesis by offering a possibility.
The attitude in which it is delivered doesn't affect the facts.
Which doesn't refute his existence.I didn't say anything about refutations. I simply pointed out that we haven't heard anything about An'shee that isn't pure folklore so far. We haven't witnessed the god act, like Elune has.
Again, do you know of any cases turning out to be myths?
Never implied they are total liars. But, in some aspects, they do. Like painting themselves as the creators of the universe's marvels and being the ultimate good guys.That is not concrete evidence, because it doesn't mean that everything they said is false.
Like i said. You never look beyond what is currently offered to you.I have. But I don't go saying "maybe the Emerald Dream is not the Emerald Dream" or "maybe there's a desert, and rocky mountains, and lava in the Emerald Dream". Y'know, going against established lore?
No. You are not in the Emerald Dream when you visit those places. They are just mere reflections of what the Emerald Dream is trying to capture.Considering the Emerald Dream is a reflection of Azeroth if mortals never arose, that is to be expected?
3 little areas with nothing much to them. What an abundance of Emerald Dream experience. From the looks of them, they all look the same. 1 of them is a subsection of the Heart. So, it's only two tiny areas. And they look exactly the same. That's probably because they belong in the same miniature zone. So, basically, we haven't seen or experienced much of the Emerald Dream like you claim we did. We've only had small tastes of what it is like.Aw, geez. It's almost as if the lore of the Emerald Dream is that it's lush green forests. Oh wait...
And, by the way, if these Azeroth zones are a reflection of the Emerald Dream, then the Emerald Dream is not just a green lush forest, is it?
Gilneas City - more like a creepy, dead forest.
Grizzly Hills - more scandinavian than your average night elf forest.
Moonglade - would be the closest, yet more nighttime than the ED is depicted as.
Mount Hyjal - it can apparently have mountains and hills.
Mulgore - plains. Not a forest.
Un'Goro Crater - a jungle, not an enchanted forest.
So, your whole theory basically falls down. Because this:
Doesn't look like any of them.
And if you claim that these Azerothian zones are part of the Dream, you basically claim that the Dream is diverse since it's not all just this Val'sharah forest.
Old Gods and Draenei lore could definitely be touched upon (the WoW equivalents of these Starcraft races).Making up nonsense is not a worthy debate. Would you accept the fact that the planet neighbor to Azeroth is the Zerg homeworld? Maybe we'll find Cybertron somewhere in the cosmos too?
"Like the Emerald Dream, the Shadowlands are tangentially linked to the World of Azeroth". -Chronicles, Volume 1.It doesn't work that way. You're the one asserting knowledge, so the burden of proof is on your shoulders to show that we were told/implied that the Shadowlands were just for Azeroth.
Outland. Which is built upon the foundation of Draenor.That was not my question. I asked what is the main landmass for TBC expansion called? Hint: it's not Draenor.
It doesn't? A dream can be nothing more than a green forest? A reflection of Azeroth can be nothing more than a green forest?Possibilities that are restricted to the foundation. And if the foundation does not allow for anything other than green forests, then deserts, rocky mountains and other wastelands are not possible.
Well, it does now that we know that the Titans lied to us.
Just conjure another portal?... It literally stopped the Iron Horde from trampling into Azeroth. How is that "not much"? Not to mention that was the sole reason why we destroyed the portal.
Well, they kind of are. You are just unable to decipher them.Which has already been explained to be bunk. Fel magic is not a reference to the Emerald Dream, and small pixels in what is otherwise a blue glow also are not references to the Emerald Dream. Just like Bolvar's current form is not a reference to the Dragonflight expansion.
Then, they must have one kick-ass of magical powers, because they are the size of a tick on his shoulder.What does that have to do with anything? You'd have a point if we had one diminished titan against Sargeras, but we had all the remaining titans pooling together their remaining strength to imprison Sargeras.
Planet? I just showed you a plethora of asteroids.It requires the Titans to make themselves smaller so they don't destroy the planet while ridding it of demons.
In the form of a question.You literally just said this:
Why would the Old Gods supposedly be defeated by a small organ they supposedly have?
Last edited by username993720; 2022-11-04 at 07:46 AM.
We're not fighting "smaller versions". And to take from a meme here, their defeat is "merely a setback".
Are you even reading what I'm writing? Why would Deathwing appear as a boss when his two boss fights (Spine and Madness) are widely regarded by the playerbase as bad?Then, you'd think he would appear as a boss. But, he doesn't.
It is about the Cataclysm as well.And, again, this anniversary is not about the Cataclysm.
Not really. From what I could read of the book, it appears Odyn's decision to lie to the mortals was entirely one-sided, that it didn't come "from above", i.e., the Titans didn't tell him to lie to the mortals. If I'm right, then that book doesn't affect what is written in Chronicles. However, the broker's musings about a possible existence of a "pantheon of life" doesn't mean such a thing exists.Assertions which we know to be false.
I'm not refuting his existence. I'm just pointing out we have no evidence of his existence past myth and folklore, unlike Elune, for example.Which doesn't refute his existence.
I don't make up stuff that doesn't exist and assert it as fact like you do. That's different.Like i said. You never look beyond what is currently offered to you.
Considering you're using the single time we've been to the Broken Isles as an example of "we explored it enough", then "three little areas" should have more than met your burden of proof. Seems double-standards-ish to me.3 little areas with nothing much to them.
That line doesn't mean what you think it means. The streets in front of my house is also "tangentially linked" to my house, but it doesn't mean it's connected only to my house."Like the Emerald Dream, the Shadowlands are tangentially linked to the World of Azeroth". -Chronicles, Volume 1.
Outland. Which is a heavily modified version of Draenor. Which is my whole point with "changing something into something it's not."Outland. Which is built upon the foundation of Draenor.
The Emerald Dream is not an actual dream.A dream
The Keepers did. We don't know if the Titans commanded Odyn to command his keepers to lie.Well, it does now that we know that the Titans lied to us.
... Are you serious right now? You really think that opening a portal the size of the Dark Portal requires just the quick wiggling of fingers of a single mage?Just conjure another portal?
They're not. You're just being delusional. Do you honestly think that Blizzard, when they designed Bolvar's post-Wrathgate form, way back in 2008/2009, were thinking: "we'll make him look this way so we can use him as a reference for our dragon-based expansion we'll launch in 13 years from now"?Well, they kind of are. You are just unable to decipher them.
And David felled Goliath. And a merry band of heroes that were the size of ticks on Deathwing's shoulders felled him. Your point?Then, they must have one kick-ass of magical powers, because they are the size of a tick on his shoulder.
That exist in the Nether and not in the mortal realm.Planet? I just showed you a plethora of asteroids.
Answer me. Why would a giant being be dependent on a small tumor to win or lose?
So, there's no particular reason for him to appear as a mount for the anniversary. It's not about the Cataclysm alone and it's not about him.Are you even reading what I'm writing? Why would Deathwing appear as a boss when his two boss fights (Spine and Madness) are widely regarded by the playerbase as bad?
Not a strong enough reason. It is about all of the expansions and Deathwing doesn't even feature as a boss.It is about the Cataclysm as well.
Oh, so Odyn is the exception? From what i know, the Titanic Watchers serve the Titans.Not really. From what I could read of the book, it appears Odyn's decision to lie to the mortals was entirely one-sided, that it didn't come "from above", i.e., the Titans didn't tell him to lie to the mortals. If I'm right, then that book doesn't affect what is written in Chronicles. However, the broker's musings about a possible existence of a "pantheon of life" doesn't mean such a thing exists.
Why would the developers toy around with the concept of a Pantheon of Life?
So, the Sunwalkers and Seers that draw upon his power. Where does it come from?I'm not refuting his existence. I'm just pointing out we have no evidence of his existence past myth and folklore, unlike Elune, for example.
You do. Like your Necromancer dream.I don't make up stuff that doesn't exist and assert it as fact like you do. That's different.
We explored it enough? We've barely even scratched the surface. You're confusing me with yourself.Considering you're using the single time we've been to the Broken Isles as an example of "we explored it enough", then "three little areas" should have more than met your burden of proof. Seems double-standards-ish to me.
"Like the Emerald Dream...."That line doesn't mean what you think it means. The streets in front of my house is also "tangentially linked" to my house, but it doesn't mean it's connected only to my house.
So, you're basically saying Cataclysm Azeroth isn't Azeroth and that Outland wasn't previously Draenor. Because they did use WC2 Draenor as a foundation for Outland.Outland. Which is a heavily modified version of Draenor. Which is my whole point with "changing something into something it's not."
Funny choice of words, considering they also use the word Nightmare.The Emerald Dream is not an actual dream.
They work for the titans.The Keepers did. We don't know if the Titans commanded Odyn to command his keepers to lie.
Not a Dark Portal. A mage-sized portal. Which apparently can transfer enough to build a whole damn garrison and populate it.... Are you serious right now? You really think that opening a portal the size of the Dark Portal requires just the quick wiggling of fingers of a single mage?
Cataclysm launched right after.They're not. You're just being delusional. Do you honestly think that Blizzard, when they designed Bolvar's post-Wrathgate form, way back in 2008/2009, were thinking: "we'll make him look this way so we can use him as a reference for our dragon-based expansion we'll launch in 13 years from now"?
You're the one who said they were severely weakened and that size matters when it comes to the titans.And David felled Goliath. And a merry band of heroes that were the size of ticks on Deathwing's shoulders felled him. Your point?
And they can't reach it?That exist in the Nether and not in the mortal realm.
The same reason we would be "defeated" if a small organ roughly the size of two fists is damaged, i.e, our brain?
I'm done with this argument since I've already addressed everything about it. You just keep going in circles.So, there's no particular reason for him to appear as a mount for the anniversary. It's not about the Cataclysm alone and it's not about him.
Not a strong enough reason. It is about all of the expansions and Deathwing doesn't even feature as a boss.
You do recall that Odyn also went against the Titans' commands when the titans decided to empower the dragons to be the protectors of Azeroth, and in protest, he tore a part of Ulduar off and ascended it into the skies to become the Halls of Valor?Oh, so Odyn is the exception? From what i know, the Titanic Watchers serve the Titans.
Covering their asses.Why would the developers toy around with the concept of a Pantheon of Life?
They believe it comes from his power. Again: we haven't seen confirmation that An'she exists or not.So, the Sunwalkers and Seers that draw upon his power. Where does it come from?
Oh? Are you saying necromancers don't exist in the Warcraft lore?You do. Like your Necromancer dream.
So? That in no way means that both dimensions share the same size and/or scope. It just says that both are connected to Azeroth. The difference is that, as far as we know, the Emerald Dream is connected only to Azeroth, while the Shadowlands is connected to the entire mortal realm."Like the Emerald Dream...."
No, I'm not. You just keep twisting my words.So, you're basically saying Cataclysm Azeroth isn't Azeroth and that Outland wasn't previously Draenor.
Because it's not uncommon to use name a name that is the antithesis of the original version when it's corrupted?Funny choice of words, considering they also use the word Nightmare.
You should read about Odyn and how dutiful he is toward the Titans...They work for the titans.
Would you stop acting so obtuse? The materials were taken from Shadowmoon Valley and Frostfire Ridge.Not a Dark Portal. A mage-sized portal. Which apparently can transfer enough to build a whole damn garrison and populate it.
You literally said Bolvar is a reference to the Dragonflight expansion in your """"""""""""""""predictions"""""""""""""""" thread.Cataclysm launched right after.
"Size" isn't everything. And again, I'll repeat this for the last time since you keep ignoring this:You're the one who said they were severely weakened and that size matters when it comes to the titans.
THE REMAINING TITANS POOLED THEIR STRENGTH TOGETHER.
It isn't his brain and why would he even let us invade his body instead of crushing us right away with his enourmous tentacles. He, basically, left the charge for his body to some tiny aberration creatures. That really isn't that smart, is it?
You have no real reason other than Deathwing is known. Which is not much of a reason. You're basically trying to come with any lame excuse to explain this mount. In the end, it seems i am in the right and it is supposed to hint at Dragonflight as even the pet is lil' Nefarian. There's no reason for the theme to be specifically about dragons.I'm done with this argument since I've already addressed everything about it. You just keep going in circles.
So, he took it upon himself to ruin their reputation?You do recall that Odyn also went against the Titans' commands when the titans decided to empower the dragons to be the protectors of Azeroth, and in protest, he tore a part of Ulduar off and ascended it into the skies to become the Halls of Valor?
In case it is true?Covering their asses.
Oh, so they draw power from an unknown source and attribute it to An'she? Weird, it works for the Night elves when they specifically call upon the powers of Elune. Too bad the Tauren don't deserve the same apparently. What a bunch suckers.They believe it comes from his power. Again: we haven't seen confirmation that An'she exists or not.
You believe it would come as a future class.Oh? Are you saying necromancers don't exist in the Warcraft lore?
So, there would be no reason to attribute it to Azeroth and compare it to the Emerald Dream. Unless they didn't plan on it being universal until the Shadowlands expansion.So? That in no way means that both dimensions share the same size and/or scope. It just says that both are connected to Azeroth. The difference is that, as far as we know, the Emerald Dream is connected only to Azeroth, while the Shadowlands is connected to the entire mortal realm.
What a shame... the realm of Death encompasses all worlds while the equivalent realm of Life only connects to the Azeroth. Weird how that doesn't make much sense... huh?
If a world is devastated it isn't what it is supposed to be, apparently. Yet, the resemblance is uncanny:No, I'm not. You just keep twisting my words.
Look at the layout.
Was it ever explained why it was called the dream?Because it's not uncommon to use name a name that is the antithesis of the original version when it's corrupted?
So, Odyn is a black ship and decided to lie to us about the titan on his own accord? And the others just accept it?You should read about Odyn and how dutiful he is toward the Titans...
Then, the labour force.Would you stop acting so obtuse? The materials were taken from Shadowmoon Valley and Frostfire Ridge.
In his Shadowlands cinematic appearance. You forget that he also appeared on the 3.3.5 loading screen just before Cataclysm launched.You literally said Bolvar is a reference to the Dragonflight expansion in your """"""""""""""""predictions"""""""""""""""" thread.
So, a titanic homeworld is plausible. They're all the size of tall titanic avatars right now. Even Sargeras."Size" isn't everything. And again, I'll repeat this for the last time since you keep ignoring this:
THE REMAINING TITANS POOLED THEIR STRENGTH TOGETHER.
Last edited by username993720; 2022-11-05 at 07:15 AM.