Loot Distribution Holy Wars, Wrath Edition

[Drudi]

and i have multiple guides that only show 1 BiS for each class and spec. BECAUSE THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE BEST. Just because you can make a list that is the wand only best damage, doesnt make it an actual BiS. everyone knows that is a retarded list. no one cares about your troll guides. like the other guy "threat" BiS LMFAO gtfo

Of course there can be more than one best. You just have to use different criteria - for example, max personal dps vs. max raid dps. Or shortest mean time to get. Or anything else in general - including “best looking”.

If we’re to minmax though, then we would be talking about highest increase to team (raid) performance. And I highly doubt there a universal answer to this - for all possible raid sizes, compositions and encounters. There isn’t unless it’s mathematically proven. I haven’t seen a proof; so unless someone provides a link to a solid, logical and mathematical proof there is a “best for all cases” type of gear, even just for one slot and one class - it’s safe to assume there is none.

[Bigbazz]

you couldnt be more wrong, there is only ONE BIS set. thats what makes it the BEST. get over it

Look I'm going to be straight with you, I am right and I do infact know what I'm talking about. Go look at EJ from 2010, you will see my posts, go look at WoW forums from that era, you will see my Warrior guides. I understand my class and my spec down to every detail, including exactly how to gear for different scenarios and exactly WHY I am right in this argument.

Gear optimisation on AOE and ST can be different (it was in TBC, it is in WOTLK), it would also be different based on "casting" type bosses and standard bosses. Some bosses also had extremely wide range parry chance, or even turn around during combat, these fights would also favour some different items. Then you also had boss kill time, if you can predict kill time (you can if you play in a good guild) you choose trinkets based on kill time and taking into account how many procs you're likely to get and where those procs are likely to line up, or how many on-uses you're likely to use. Expand that further for whether you're fine to use a proc based item or an on-use item is better because you have a very specific time where you will do burst damage and you need it there.

ALL of these are factors that change the best items for the situation, and ALL of these things are things good players will consider. If you don't, you're just a casual, that's fine but it doesn't make you right, quite the opposite.


In addition to that : Widely spread BIS lists often vary from website to website, or they won't even post a list but several possible items that may fit into a set (WoWhead does just this). Then even when you have a BIS set they may or may not be specific to race, and you change race and your BIS list changes, often by several items... And then after all that is put together, sim developers fix one bug or make one optimisation to the sim and the BIS "simmed" list changes...


So no you are wrong, I am right and I'm fed up of these dumbed down takes on the topic.

. no one cares what some random sim devs think

Well they certainly don't care what you think, do they?

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Gearing it dug way to deeply into. Unless you are actually on the bleeding edge.. which in the classic terms isnt progression (everyone is lawl full clear) its more times. If your guild isn't in like the top 20-30 in the world most of the sitting around and thinking everything over very carefully is a waste of time. In most cases, outside of that bleeding edge again, the LC should just be worried about making sure someone isn't getting a trash item and thinking its BiS, or taking one persons BiS and putting it on someone its total trash, and then finally spreading loot around enough to where people enjoy the game. Nothing is more toxic in this game than an LC that handles loot like they are some top 10 world time guild but can't even communicate to their members that they are or are not even a speed running guild and only care about it when they post a good time for a few weeks until they get put in the dirt for the 12th time in a row.

[Twdft]

Funniest thing about BiS is, it is only achievable on farm when you don't need it anymore.

The only reason to go for BiS while progressing is to make farm shorter. BiS is a personal goal, arguing it benefits the raid is nonsense. The raid benefits from giving an item to the player who gets the most out of it on the next unbeaten boss in the raid.

[kranur]

Funniest thing about BiS is, it is only achievable on farm when you don't need it anymore.

This is only true for the last raid of the expansion. The t7 bis will be put to good use in progressing t8 for example.

Some people are delusional though. Unless a particular tier lasts for an absurd amount of time, you're simply not going to get full bis on everyone, unless your guilds does splits, and even then it's all about rng.

[Twdft]

This is only true for the last raid of the expansion. The t7 bis will be put to good use in progressing t8 for example.

T7 is not BiS anymore once T8 is current content.

[anon5123]

If +hit gear is being prio to DPS, then mp5 gear should be prio to healers

simple as

[kranur]

T7 is not BiS anymore once T8 is current content.

Trolling or just stupid?
Your argument was that there's not need to farm bis other than faster farming, which is just not true.

[Hctaz]

I'd say it doesn't really matter who gets priority on what as long as the players are smart enough to check a BiS list.

I haven't organized a pug personally in Wrath yet, but, the way I see it, BiS should get priority over non-BiS.

It doesn't make sense to give a mage a piece that's 4th BiS for them down a massive list only to have them turn around and win their actual BiS later in the same run and they can now no longer trade the first item away to somebody that the item was actually BiS for.

[Twdft]

Trolling or just stupid?
Your argument was that there's not need to farm bis other than faster farming, which is just not true.

English is not my native language, I could try to explain better but somehow I don't feel like it.

[garicasha]

So I'm gonna start going through individual contested items, and looks like Flame Leviathan doesn't have too much contested stuff, but I will start with

Pyrite Infuser (10 normal 219 trinket)
95 hit
Chance on melee and ranged critical strike to increase your attack power by 1234 for 10 sec.

And I'm taking separate answers for what casual guilds, required attendance guilds, and speed run guilds would do with the item.

[Bigbazz]

So I'm gonna start going through individual contested items, and looks like Flame Leviathan doesn't have too much contested stuff, but I will start with

Pyrite Infuser (10 normal 219 trinket)
95 hit
Chance on melee and ranged critical strike to increase your attack power by 1234 for 10 sec.

And I'm taking separate answers for what casual guilds, required attendance guilds, and speed run guilds would do with the item.

Disenchant it because it's shit.

[garicasha]

Aight so today let's take a look at some of Ignis' loot:

Furnace Stone: was 219, trinket, 105 dodge. Clickable: increase armor by 5152 for 20 sec, 2 min CD. Right off the bat I'm wondering if that would hit armor cap for bears.

Relentless Edge: Polearm, was 219, 65 agil, 111 stam, 2203 feral AP, 76 crit, 62 haste, 212 AP

Igniter Rod: 219 OH, 45 int 36 spirit 47 crit 64 spellpower

Rifle of the Platinum Guard: 219 OH, 29 crit, 24 hit, 31 armor penetration. No primary stat. 42 stam

Gauntlets of the Iron Furnace: 219 hands, 59 strength, 48 def, 56 dodge, 43 armor pen. Does any dps need armor pen so bad that the defensive stats using the item budget would be worth it?

Worldcarver: 232 2H, 70 haste, 87 expertise, 137 strength. had that bad boy on my DK in OG wrath.

Heart of Iron: 226 trinket, 162 stam, 432 dodge for 20 sec 2 min CD

Cindershard Ring: 63 agility, 42 hit, 84 AP, 46 armor penetration

Girdle of Embers: 98 strength 60 crit 49 armor penetration

Intensity: 2H 232 Staff 121 Int 86 spirit 120 hit 550 spell power

Pyrelight Circle: ring 42 int, 46 crit, 36 haste, 74 spell power

Soot-Covered Mantle: 226 cloth shoulders, 65 int 49 spirit, 52 hit, 90 spell power

So a couple of spirit & hit items, which if I'm not mistaken are good for warlocks and boomkins and probably mages.

Some armor pen items that I'm not real sure about.

And some tank trinkets I'm also not quite sure how valuable they are.

[Bigbazz]

I was kidding anyway. The Pyrite Infuser isn't that bad, it's just the Mirror of Truth proc with a little more attack power and hit instead of crit, but it's not going to be a highly contested item because a lot of classes would skip right over it. You also have to consider that Ulduar is getting upgraded loot, 10man I think is bumped up to ilvl226.

Loot priorities tend to form themselves based on different classes preferring different pieces, aside from a select few of the hardmode items. Don't prioritise 2handers to DK's because all DK specs perform better while dual wielding. My guild has no loot priorities, GDKP takes care of loot, nobody is paying big gold for a sidegrade or something they plan to replace, the gold just goes around in a big circle in guild.

[davesurfer]

Also the idea that "if it isn't BiS it is trash" was always painful to think about. Seeing GOOD items get ignored because they were not the BiS list was annoying.

Our guild does a simple roll based approach to solve what you are saying

We roll 1-98 for OS
1-99 MS
1-100 for BiS

BiS>MS>OS. This way people roll for upgrades and it doesn’t hurt their chances for BiS and they are tracked separately by our RL. But we are a non-drama raid, and in fact we pass after we win if we notice it is better for someone else.

[garicasha]

Alright I need to bump this for a question that arose in Naxx yesterday...

Strength DPS rolling on agility necklaces...how good are they?

[Kralljin]

Alright I need to bump this for a question that arose in Naxx yesterday...

Strength DPS rolling on agility necklaces...how good are they?

There are no Dps Str necks in Naxx, which should answer your question.

Also, Str classes rolling on items with agility is something any person who has played Classic or TBC is familiar with and will continue to happen throughout Wrath.

[Squigglyo]

Alright I need to bump this for a question that arose in Naxx yesterday...

Strength DPS rolling on agility necklaces...how good are they?

My Ret Pally is rocking Leather Agility gear in some spots because its BIS


Things are not as simple with gear as they are in retail.

[KvasBara]

Oh, thank you for this. didn't knew