Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ...
4
5
6
7
LastLast
  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Highlord Hanibuhl View Post
    With Blizzard adding more race/class combinations, Druid could also use some balance.

    Which Alliance race could be made into druids?
    Void elves would have my vote.

    1. They'd easily make the coolest forms and
    2. Druidism in wow is an elven thing, it's just weird, no other elves can be druids, but all the other horde races can? At the very least void elves should and if they want it to go further, then humans. But void elves before humans.
    3.the druids desperately need help with the nightmare thier knoweldge an d methods could greatly assist and produce this new race/class combo.

    Lore wise - it could go something like this: the void elves have been very interested in Elune's dark moon powers and Tyrande's control over it has even won some of these Thalassians back to Elune worship, it's caused a boon in the void elf priest population, as working relationships strengthened first with the Highborne, then the Priests black moon sect, the druids seeking means to control or remove the nightmare, have sought the void elves' help.

    Totally up for investigating htis, many void elven botanists have teamed up with the night elven and worgen druids to solve the problem, these void elves have learnt and adapted the void to nature, increasing Azeroths defense against the void as well as increasing effectiveness against it. The void elves have learnt to master more of nature this way and some have joined the Cenarion circle as void druids. They hope to train Azeroth's to res
    Last edited by Mace; 2023-02-06 at 06:38 PM.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    2. Druidism in wow is an elven thing, it's just weird, no other elves can be druids, but all the other horde races can? At the very least void elves should and if they want it to go further, then humans. But void elves before humans.
    That's rather self-contradictory. Probably because it's wrong. Druidism isn't an elven thing, it's specificially a Night Elven thing. The other Elves don't really deal with it. Besides, we've already got two human factions as Druids, so it's humans before Void Elves anyway.

    Your lore makes no sense either. Druids aren't Elune worshippers, and Elune's dark side is not Void power.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    That's rather self-contradictory. Probably because it's wrong. Druidism isn't an elven thing, it's specificially a Night Elven thing. The other Elves don't really deal with it. Besides, we've already got two human factions as Druids, so it's humans before Void Elves anyway.

    Your lore makes no sense either. Druids aren't Elune worshippers, and Elune's dark side is not Void power.
    I didn't think it was, bottom line, druidism in warcraft is elven lore through and through, don't see why only the arcane parctice shoudl continue onto the high elves, but somehow the nature magic use goes awol, knowing full well they all love nature too.

    I'd also think they'd be more interest in it from Nightborne and void elves thanks to the Arcan'dor (major part of the Nightborne) and the Nightmare the biggest threat and issue facing the druids that void elf nature lovers and scholars are in prime position to fill - this should or could at the very least warrant those two being powerful druid groups. And I can't see why the blood elven botanists haven't progressed to druidism, yet the trolls suddenly learnt it in cata and now they all have it but none of the elves do?.

    Arcane/nature balance is right up the elves' street, esp Nightborne, and it's exactly how you'd bring druidism to an arcane race, if at first it was only plants and vegetation. /shrug. The class and it's lore is elven through and through? To me it shouldn't be the case.
    Last edited by Mace; 2023-02-07 at 11:52 AM.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    I didn't think it was, bottom line, druidism in warcraft is elven lore through and through, don't see why only the arcane parctice shoudl continue onto the high elves, but somehow the nature magic use goes awol, knowing full well they all love nature too.
    AKA you don't know shit about WarCraft lore. The High Elves left the very people practicing Nature magic. Which happen to be the Night Elves. They never had it to begin with.

    The Arcan'dor is also only a very recent thing to the Nightborne and was mostly watched over by a Night Elf prior to that.

    And I can't see why the blood elven botanists haven't progressed to druidism, yet the trolls suddenly learnt it in cata and now they all have it but none of the elves do?.
    Because the Trolls got taught by Wild Gods. The botanists didn't aside from the fact that we kinda killed them.

    Arcane/nature balance is right up the elves' street, esp Nightborne, and it's exactly how you'd bring druidism to an arcane race, if at first it was only plants and vegetation. /shrug. The class and it's lore is elven through and through? To me it shouldn't be the case.
    No, it isn't. That's all stuff you made up. Nightborne were given this balance by an outside factor a few years ago, they didn't create it themself. High Elves and their successors simply don't have it. Neither actually has anybody teaching them Druidism.

    We've also since learned that Tauren actually beat the Night Elves to it and Kul Tiran Druids work off a completely different origin. The class lore is not uniquely elven unless you ignore a large part of it.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    AKA you don't know shit about WarCraft lore. The High Elves left the very people practicing Nature magic. Which happen to be the Night Elves. They never had it to begin with.

    The Arcan'dor is also only a very recent thing to the Nightborne and was mostly watched over by a Night Elf prior to that.
    They didn't stop loving nature, nor loving magic. The issue was over the use of arcane magic, not despising nature or the use of nature magic - in principle, they would also be nature magic experts amongst them, I don't expect those to have excelled to the level of the druids, just like their magecraft never excelled to the levels it was of the night elven life prior to the sundering.

    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Because the Trolls got taught by Wild Gods. The botanists didn't aside from the fact that we kinda killed them.
    So you're willing to accept an out of the blue loa telling priest to go get taught by night elves, yet, somehow botanists already using nature magic like druids taking that extra step forward to become playable druids is now preposterous and less believable?

    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    No, it isn't. That's all stuff you made up. Nightborne were given this balance by an outside factor a few years ago, they didn't create it themself. High Elves and their successors simply don't have it. Neither actually has anybody teaching them Druidism.
    What exactly did I make up? And what is the outside source? The nature in the tree? or the arcane in it? And that somehow negates any connection or relation to druids? Right, so you ignore completely to what purpose? To prove that Nightborne can't be druids? or shouldn't be druids? Or just to prove that because I've said it, it's wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    We've also since learned that Tauren actually beat the Night Elves to it and Kul Tiran Druids work off a completely different origin. The class lore is not uniquely elven unless you ignore a large part of it.
    No Tauren did not. Not in being taught by Cenarius nor becoming druids. Druids as full fledged art/craft and school is something Malfurion makes happen due to both his knowledge and the advances he makes in Cenarius' teachings. Malfurion is the first druid ever. He is not however the first user of nature magics.

    Furthermore, in the lore, Cenarius contacts the night elves first and teaches them. when they become too arcane obsessed, he leaves them, this is when he first meets and teaches the Tauren, he then returns to the night elves around the 1st invasion when he meets Malfurion, but his real journey back with the night elves is after the sundering, because prior to that it's just Malfurion.

    And what makes you think that the invention of druidic lore for Tauren that happened is less far fetched than progressing Nightborne, blood elves or Void elves into druidism based on what they've already established about them .. my point is that it's not as much a stretch for the other elves to become druids as it was to invent reasons for trolls or tauren, or Kul'tiran to become druids.

    That's why I am surprised they are not.

    I don't know what you got into your head that I am saying, nothing you have put out shows, proves or tells me that the other elves can't , shouldn't or are less likely to be druids.. clearly for anything to happen they just invent a story - as Zen'tabra and Gonk, and before them Hamuul and Malfruion clearly prove. Even the very druidism itself is an invention in the way it takes place in wow, so I don't see how inventing other reasons for other races to be druids is somehow stupid or wrong, or not possible, given that there is already some basis for it in the lore.

    - - - Updated - - -

    But yeh, I know nothing about this subject, nor about the lore of elves, druids or magic in Warcraft, clearly!, and my point that other elves should be druids, is far less valid than making points that other races like Tauren, goblins or Pandas for being druids.

  6. #106
    I am Murloc! Maljinwo's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Buenos Aires, Argentina
    Posts
    5,381
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    2. Druidism in wow is an elven thing, it's just weird, no other elves can be druids, but all the other horde races can?
    The demigod Cenarius originally gave guidance to and lived amongst the nomadic yaungol in the grassy plains of central Kalimdor between the 12,000 and 11,900 BDP. To them he taught the secrets of the wilds and of druidic magic.
    So druidism is not an 'elven' thing. It's a Cenarius thing

    And only if we discount that it's really a Wild God thing since Zandalari learned druidism from Gonk


    On topic. My vote goes to either Dark iron Dwarves due to being the best alliance race or Wildhammer Dwarves due to them valuing nature
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    They didn't stop loving nature, nor loving magic.
    Correct - they never did to begin with. High Elves are descendants of the Highborne, not of the commoners that took up Druidism.

    So you're willing to accept an out of the blue loa telling priest to go get taught by night elves, yet, somehow botanists already using nature magic like druids taking that extra step forward to become playable druids is now preposterous and less believable?
    Are they even? For all we know they just used Arcane to emulate it. They certainly didn't have anybody to teach them Nature magic. You do realise that a botanist is simply somebody who studies plants, not Nature magic?

    What exactly did I make up? And what is the outside source? The nature in the tree? or the arcane in it? And that somehow negates any connection or relation to druids? Right, so you ignore completely to what purpose? To prove that Nightborne can't be druids? or shouldn't be druids?
    The tree is literally outside of Suramar city in parts of the zone the Nightborne were cut off from for 10,000 years.

    But yeh, I know nothing about this subject, nor about the lore of elves, druids or magic in Warcraft
    Yeah, and you keep proving it.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Correct - they never did to begin with. High Elves are descendants of the Highborne, not of the commoners that took up Druidism.
    ALl elves love nature - ALL, there is no exception.

    During Azshara's reign,, addiction that caused hubris, just made them less reverential of..well everything.. their kin, nature, Elune, life - they became like our stuck up insular corrupt celebrity/corporate/political cultures who only care about who's the best, and forget what it means to be human.

    Their cities, homes, life were full of nature, look at Zin'Azsahri and Suramar, the lore records them as enhancing forest AND cities alike, and building their cities took a combination of nature and arcane magic 9this is pre-hubris/addiction, and also post sundering)

    Look at Eldre'thalas, it is full of ancients and treants, the identity of all Kaldorei (including Highborne) is in both arcane and nature... just that towards the end of Queen Azshara's reign, they only thing the arrogant truly respected was power. The reason why the priesthood remained such a powerful caste, though it lost its top spot to the Highbonre is that everyone was aware of the power they wielded through Elune, and that has never been a trifle, however the nature users were not developed as they are post sundering, nor was Malfurion known until he won against Azshara and hte Legion in the dispersal of the Well that stopped the demons but caused the sundering.

    My point? Highborne also love nature.. with elves, it is just a degree. Highborne under Azshara lost their reverence for nature, but a lot of night elves also abandoned those reverential ways - they did not stop loving nature - love and respect and always the same thing - and this is an important point to remember later when I come back to Trolls and Tauren before WoW and WoW Cataclysm. Highborne under Darth'remar and the elves in both Suramar and Eldre'thalas display a love for nature that continues even in highly addictive states.


    The lore shows us that they all regain this reverence later (or a measure greater than the palace Highborne. Everyone, including existing highborne despise), especially including Darth'remar's Highborne, who's issue was never with nature.

    Elves never had a problem with nature, never, what some were not interested is the nature only existence was just not enough for everyone and off course it won't be, these people were made from the arcane infusing and transforming them, nautre love might be a hting but it owuld never be the only thing, how can it also when you love a goddess to that extent also?

    Anyway, Quel'thalas shows high elf love of nature this in it's love of forest and nature - which is part of the elven identity, they're just not at druidic levels.# They were only happy to settle in that region becuase it most reminded them at home. And what about it reminded them of home/ The cities that didn't exist? or the type of forest their. Or did you forget Darth'remar's lot were also night elves/ or that night elves including Highborne love nature. and if htey hated nature, do you think they'd have stayed in a forest for 3,000 years?


    Wc2 paints a picture of a very nature loving high elven people. Suramar shows you that nature even in a 10,000 year old jar was important to these people, and there is an entire section of the Nighthold devoted to this.. not to mention how the story weaves in the need for nature in the Arcan'dor and the reverence of the tree replacing that of the Nightwell.

    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post

    Are they even? For all we know they just used Arcane to emulate it. They certainly didn't have anybody to teach them Nature magic. You do realise that a botanist is simply somebody who studies plants, not Nature magic?
    The point was blood elves becoming druids is not as no more far-fetched than trolls given the lore before Cataclysm, or Tauren, given their lore before WoW classic. That you think the idea of blood elves being druids, or Nightborne or void elves is ridiculous because of what? Assuming they're all like Azshara's palace Highborne who actually still love their gardens even if they care most for power. it's a racial identity of the race, and the druidism in wow is built on the elven view of nature - which is love of it.

    The Trolls and Tauren (at least at first) were not race that "loved" nature, they respected nature, they were not the type to faun over plants and befriend animals - you respect nature, it's part of the living cycle, the Earthmother, and something you have to live by, and while that balance is part of druidism, the elven view is based on a lore and care for nature.

    Off course it is not beyond reason that Tauren, would have more individuals that love nature - but this is woven in later on, and is not part of their original identity, unlike the elves, so why is it okay for you to accept tauren and trolls as druids, but somehow balk at any Thalassian elf group or the Nightborne night elf sub-group who have always had nature love as a significant part of their presentation and their routes?


    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    The tree is literally outside of Suramar city in parts of the zone the Nightborne were cut off from for 10,000 years.
    What's that got to do with anything where it is? The tree is their new symbol and their new fascination, their emblems changed, their city has lots of gardens, vineyards, they are in the nearby forests - you trying to tell me they don't care for nature at all, though it is their salvation and is part of their origin and quite visibly so, yet you are willing to accept druidic extensions to races like Kul'tirans , trolls, worgen and Tauren that were made up with no prior nature love emphasis or history - unlike the elves , and yet suddenly now the other elves are brought up, this is just not likely.

    You didn't finish the quest right, they want to move the tree ott he city, I don't remember if they actually do, and the city has just not been updated to reflect htis, or they can't move it - don't remember, but the fact it is outside the city doesn't change it's significance.

    Nightborne are probably not druids, because of the decision to go horde, that came later. They did debate about them longer, Highmountain were already decided to be druids before Nightborne went horde. If Nightborne had gone alliance, they'd be druids, but because Highmountain were already, they could not give the horde 1 more druid race at that time.

    But if you think learning to become monks, or returning to Elune as priests is possible for Nightborne but somehow becoming druids is far-fetched, you'd be wrong, because outside mage, druid is the next class that has the most story significance in the Nightborne, followed by hunter, then warrior, we get no story basis for priests , only that off course these are night elves and would have priests of Elune, but they don't show up in the story for the Nightborne specifically, and monks certainly do not.. when do the Pandaren get their to train them? What role did the Pandaren play in saving Suramar - but Nightborne can be monks, but being druids that's just ignorance.


    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Yeah, and you keep proving it.
    You do a stellar job at proving it.
    Last edited by Mace; 2023-02-10 at 01:25 PM.

  9. #109
    I am Murloc! Sting's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Your ignore list
    Posts
    5,218
    Mechagnomes are a natural fit
    ( ° ͜ʖ͡°)╭∩╮

    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    The fun factor would go up 1000x if WQs existed in vanilla

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    The demigod Cenarius originally gave guidance to and lived amongst the nomadic yaungol in the grassy plains of central Kalimdor between the 12,000 and 11,900 BDP. To them he taught the secrets of the wilds and of druidic magic.
    So druidism is not an 'elven' thing. It's a Cenarius thing

    And only if we discount that it's really a Wild God thing since Zandalari learned druidism from Gonk


    On topic. My vote goes to either Dark iron Dwarves due to being the best alliance race or Wildhammer Dwarves due to them valuing nature
    The demi god Cenarius meets with elves close to their awakening, this is around 14,000 -15,000 BDP and matches the account in War of the Ancients trilogy, when Cenarius speaks about his first visit to the elves, also mentioned in chronicles, that happens before the rise of the empire and before he meets with the Yaungol. Chronicles also implies that the elves are the first humanoids the demi god Cenarius is both impressed with and decides to interact with.

    On topic response..Wildhammer? In my opinion, I just don't think turning into animals is their thing, it just doesn't mesh with the dwarven vibe,, not that one can't be created ... I can certainly see humans becoming druids, esp now that Kul'tirans are and Worgen too, and can see Void elves too - which i think woudl be very cool and has a story hook in helping with the Nightmare. Pandas I can see becoming druids - but that would also give the horde druids, defeating this.

    Far less likely would be any dwarf, gnome or Draenei. - but of those 3 , Draenei would be the most likely as they've demonstrated a deep care for nature and they desire the balance of nature.

    Wildhammers seem more focused on lightning, flying gryphons, and the elements - I even tend to think of their shamanism a bit more like Kul'tirans - they aren't actually shaman in the traditional sense, it's just that the class that is closest to wielding lightning hammers, is the shaman, and I can dig a version of earth elemental stuff from their Earthern origin. Same with Dark Irons and fire, handling all those molten core elementals, but they are more Thermautages /half mage than shaman - but in wow shaman is the class name, - they don't strike means a love of flora, fauna or anything to do with the arcane, the stars and the moon.. but then Tauren, Trolls and Kul'tirans had nothing to do with the stars, moon, arcane or love of animals and plants, and Tauren only had their flora love inserted in wow, as was the whole Mu'sha legend which would not exist if they listened to Chris Metzen and made druids exclusively Night elf and male like they had been in WC3.

    But if Chris had had his way, Warlocks would be exclusively horde, Druids would be night elves only (and male), Shaman exclusively horde (which they were for classic) and Paladins exclusively alliance.. I suspect that he would have had night elves on both factions to allow horde to have druids before spreading druids to other races.

    It was a big developer row, and the rumour mill says he was not happy about it, and went into a sulk, but I suspect that losing that battle is what largely diminished the lore in Warcraft, it needed a strong voice in the development room, and once they stopped listening to him, you could easily tell in wow the lore took a backseat. I noticed when TBC took off and wow became story driven, it was not represented well at all. Like there as not any serious priority in the story, it was more flavour.. and that's how it has been in Warcraft.

    Compare it ot other titles like Star Wars the old Republic, Secret World, ESO, even GW2 and FFXIV did a better job.
    Last edited by Mace; 2023-02-10 at 01:31 PM.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    ALl elves love nature - ALL, there is no exception.
    That's not even true for Night Elves. Stop trying to base things on your headcanon, that isn't a valid source for the actual game.

  12. #112
    I am Murloc! KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    ( ° ͜ʖ͡°)╭∩╮
    Posts
    5,815
    Honestly, I think Draenei could pull it off.

    A race so attuned to magic(s) and proficient in adapting to the different magic(s) they engage in. The ways of magi and wizards with Arcane, those who literally became demonic and wielded Fel, and even when some physically devolved into lesser beings they were able to call upon the elemental spirits of Nature.
    Also their bread-and-butter dealings with the Light.

    That track record alone sells me on them being capable of becoming Druids. I would not think it would be so much of a stretch as opposed to Zandalari Druids existing because of a single Wild God in their pantheon.

    Blizzard could spin any story/lore to explain their capability, newly learned ability, or even “there were Draenei Druids all a long over there —>” if they wanted to and I think they have been largely (not fully) successful in expanding the lore when introducing new race + class combinations.

  13. #113
    Pandaren would be cool as druid. Lore-wise their history and culture includes Wild Gods a lot.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Highlord Hanibuhl View Post
    Kul Tiran are also human.
    Incredible, humans, dwarves would seem closer candidates for druidism than elves, who invented the thing.

    Void elves off course. All elves love nature, and all elves come from night elves, the druidic potential is as strong and as inherited from night elves as the arcane potential.

    Besides, void elves should jump at the opportunity to study the void and nature, devising ways to help with the nightmare

  15. #115
    Gnomes should be the next to get a druid class ! i mean even the healer form is in game already


  16. #116
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Somewhere where canon still exists
    Posts
    9,533
    I'd say Dwarf and or Pandaren would probably be the best (Perhaps both as it would give Horde Pandaren too)

  17. #117
    They just need to make them Human already.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Nah, Jade Serpent based. Crane is healing focused, Serpent does the more offensive stuff. Don't base it on the Monk, they only used jade colour because the spells would look really weird in red.
    They could've been so cool as an orange fire kinda of colour. Would've been nice to see something other than yellow(light) green/blue heals.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    They just need to make them Human already.
    Two of the three Alliance druid races are humans.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Two of the three Alliance druid races are humans.
    They don't have the human racial:
    Diplomacy: Reputation gains increased by 10%.
    Will to Survive: Removes all stun effects. This effect shares a 90-second cooldown with other similar effects.
    The Human Spirit: You gain 2% more of all secondary stats (Haste, Critical Strike, Mastery, Versatility) from all sources.
    Related

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •