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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Ateo View Post
    100% hope they go this route. Would make the game exponentially better and more engaging.
    How so? Give reasons not just sound bites.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hibiki View Post
    I wonder how much delay we will got until we can fly old-style in Dragonlands?
    Likely mid patch if dragon flying isn't well received last patch if it is.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by AtomR View Post
    Infinite flight? If you aim (slightly down) you will eventually hit the ground. And that's called gliding and while gliding vigor recharge is frozen.
    Flying includes going forward and upward. And when you're out of vigor AND gliding you no longer get vigor. You only get vigor at higher speeds.
    If you're about to hit the ground, you hit the 'flap wings' button, redirect, and then continue going high speed. If you're flying fast enough, your vigor will recharge. If you're not going fast enough to recharge, you, again, pick up speed so you can recharge it. At maxed out dragonriding, there is absolutely no excuse to ever run out of vigor unless you're purposefully crashing into things. With my time using dragonriding maxed out, I have never once encountered a scenario that I found myself saying, 'man, it's hard to keep my vigor above 0', because it simply is not. It's designed to not. Maxed out dragonriding is supposed to simply feel like a more powerful and skillful expression of flight, with the intention being, 'if you mess up, you can lose it' - yet the amount of 'skill' it takes when everything is maxed is next to none.

    I won't discount the idea that you've encountered issues like these with dragonriding. I'm just astounded at how it's even... possible, I guess? What specifically are you finding difficult?
    Wyrmrest Accord Alliance must make a comeback! Stop transferring to Moon Guard! Please!

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by AtomR View Post
    Infinite flight? If you aim (slightly down) you will eventually hit the ground. And that's called gliding and while gliding vigor recharge is frozen.
    Flying includes going forward and upward. And when you're out of vigor AND gliding you no longer get vigor. You only get vigor at higher speeds.
    You are wrong. I've been in the air continuously for over 30 minutes straight.
    I'll refer back to my point about trying the system while having it maxed out
    You gain passive 1 vigor every 5 seconds for example. It's infinite flight, yes.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilrox View Post
    I think pre-patch for the next expansion would be ideal personally.
    Still waiting for you to answer my question Funny how you keep ducking it

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Still waiting for you to answer my question Funny how you keep ducking it
    Remind me again what the question is?

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilrox View Post
    Remind me again what the question is?
    Why are you so scored of regular flying to co-exist with Dragonriding in current expansions?

  7. #207
    Tbh soar as implimented on the prepatch isn't any different from the kite+wind things they've had in the last couple expansions. In legion you could use the emerald winds to shoot yourself up, and the kite toy to sail quickly across the entire map before flying was allowed

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Why are you so scored of regular flying to co-exist with Dragonriding in current expansions?
    I'm not scared of it, but I understand what it brings to the table versus Dragonflying. Suppose legacy flying is just far more efficient than Dragonflying. In that case, players will always take the path of least resistance, thus overshadowing what positive gameplay benefits something like Dragonflying brings to the table. There might be avenues of gameplay opened up because of Dragonflying, but if the user base is resistant to change, then we may never see what those new avenues are. My point is you need to give new systems room to grow, especially one with as much potential as Dragonflying.

    But knowing how Dragonflying is, something tells me I don't have much to worry about, as by the end of the expansion, I have a good feeling that the significant outcry from the userbase is to carry Dragonflynig forward and that the idea of going back to legacy flying becomes a major turn-off. After spending two years flying at upwards of 980% speed, going back to 310% is going to feel like a snail's pace; it's going to feel bad.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomR View Post
    Infinite flight? If you aim (slightly down) you will eventually hit the ground. And that's called gliding and while gliding vigor recharge is frozen.
    Flying includes going forward and upward. And when you're out of vigor AND gliding you no longer get vigor. You only get vigor at higher speeds.
    yes and you can easily keep high speeds up perpetually, it is not hard.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilrox View Post
    I'm not scared of it, but I understand what it brings to the table versus Dragonflying. Suppose legacy flying is just far more efficient than Dragonflying. In that case, players will always take the path of least resistance, thus overshadowing what positive gameplay benefits something like Dragonflying brings to the table. There might be avenues of gameplay opened up because of Dragonflying, but if the user base is resistant to change, then we may never see what those new avenues are. My point is you need to give new systems room to grow, especially one with as much potential as Dragonflying.

    But knowing how Dragonflying is, something tells me I don't have much to worry about, as by the end of the expansion, I have a good feeling that the significant outcry from the userbase is to carry Dragonflynig forward and that the idea of going back to legacy flying becomes a major turn-off. After spending two years flying at upwards of 980% speed, going back to 310% is going to feel like a snail's pace; it's going to feel bad.
    BUt you said that Dragonriding is superior, so your entire first paragraph is nonsense. That means you absolutely are scared and you aren't even 100% convinced of your own opinions. IF it is so much better as you claim, then legacy flying being available should not impact things at all

    What you are really saying is that you want people to be forced to use it because you know that people will go back to legacy flying if they don't. You absloutely terrified that Dragonriding will get taken away from you,

    Keep them both. Let the players decide which they want to use Stop trying to force what you want onto players that don't.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Koollan View Post
    At maxed out dragonriding, there is absolutely no excuse to ever run out of vigor unless you're purposefully crashing into things. With my time using dragonriding maxed out, I have never once encountered a scenario that I found myself saying, 'man, it's hard to keep my vigor above 0', because it simply is not. It's designed to not. Maxed out dragonriding is supposed to simply feel like a more powerful and skillful expression of flight, with the intention being, 'if you mess up, you can lose it' - yet the amount of 'skill' it takes when everything is maxed is next to none.
    This is all basically true, except when you land to pick an herb or click a thingie for a WQ or kill a mob or whatever. If you're out of vigor you'll need to wait 15 seconds to regenerate one to take back off, and likely one vigor isn't sufficient to get you high enough in the air to matter so it may be 30-45s. When gathering you're probably picking an herb 2-4 times per minute.

    There is supposedly a way around this, though. You get a bronze dragonflight ability to mark your location while flying and another one to "rewind" back to that spot in the air. Both are instant with a 30s cooldown. Thing is, it's kind of a pain in the ass. You need to remember to timelock your spot sufficiently high in the air before every single time you mine or herb or whatever. You mess that up, you're on the ground and may need to sit there for 30 seconds. Sounds like a bad time to me.

    Note I'm not in beta so the above is all theoretical, there may be a trivial way around the problem, or maybe even herbing 4x/minute you still never run out of vigor at max skill. If so please do speak up.

    At any rate, I want Blizzard to fulfill their promise and add normal flying later on. Dragon flight will never make sense to fly 40 feet to a mailbox by design, and you can't hover and carefully figure out where to land to avoid overpulling, and so on, and all that stuff is extremely convenient. Once regular flight is available dragon flight will still have a use as it's much, much faster for longer distances.
    Last edited by Schizoide; 2022-11-24 at 05:58 PM.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    [...]
    Likely mid patch if dragon flying isn't well received last patch if it is.
    i would assume last patch in any case as it is a pretty convenient way to cripple any gathering bots (eg druids for herbalism)
    No matter how relevant the post, I will stop reading after 'should of'.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    This is all basically true, except when you land to pick an herb or click a thingie for a WQ or kill a mob or whatever. If you're out of vigor you'll need to wait 15 seconds to regenerate one to take back off, and likely one vigor isn't sufficient to get you high enough in the air to matter so it may be 30-45s. When gathering you're probably picking an herb 2-4 times per minute.

    There is supposedly a way around this, though. You get a bronze dragonflight ability to mark your location while flying and another one to "rewind" back to that spot in the air. Both are instant with a 30s cooldown. Thing is, it's kind of a pain in the ass. You need to remember to timelock your spot sufficiently high in the air before every single time you mine or herb or whatever. You mess that up, you're on the ground and may need to sit there for 30 seconds. Sounds like a bad time to me.

    Note I'm not in beta so the above is all theoretical, there may be a trivial way around the problem, or maybe even herbing 4x/minute you still never run out of vigor at max skill. If so please do speak up.

    At any rate, I want Blizzard to fulfill their promise and add normal flying later on. Dragon flight will never make sense to fly 40 feet to a mailbox by design, and you can't hover and carefully figure out where to land to avoid overpulling, and so on, and all that stuff is extremely convenient. Once regular flight is available dragon flight will still have a use as it's much, much faster for longer distances.
    From my experience using maxed out Dragonriding on the beta - this is a non-issue (running out of vigor while gathering). Grounded vigor regeneration per-point maxed out is 15 seconds per vigor, this much is true, but there is a talent on Row 8 called Dragonrider's Cultivation which buffs your vigor regeneration by 10% for 10 seconds after you mine or herb.

    Considering you drop down on the herb from above, and the flying vigor regeneration is 5 seconds per vigor during at-speed regen, and also considering the herb-while-mounted bonus for maxed out general mining and herbing, you simply will not run out of vigor if you're constantly hopping around and hitting max speed before your next herb, which is not hard. Your vigor regenerates so quickly that it's pretty much a non-issue. The lowest my vigor has dropped to during a 6, 7 node collection spree is 2 vigor - and even then it regenerated pretty much instantly once I hit the air to go to a new location. Flighted vigor recharge with that talent is 4.5 seconds (pretty sure it actually rounds down to 4 seconds) and for grounded regen, it's 13.5 second recharge (rounded down to 13 pretty sure).

    Something to note is that there's also a talent that improves your vigor regen after you kill something, which is another 10 percent. Makes it easier for WQs and whatnot, too.
    Last edited by Koollan; 2022-11-24 at 07:15 PM.
    Wyrmrest Accord Alliance must make a comeback! Stop transferring to Moon Guard! Please!

  14. #214
    I saw those talents but figured 10% was hilariously undertuned and worthless, like the stupid inscription contracts that give a whopping extra 10 rep per WQ Blizzard keeps inexplicably putting in every expansion. Anyway, good to hear it won't be an issue!

  15. #215
    Dragonflying has not shot of succeeding long term with the current dev team determined to control how players engage with the world to the point of micro managing the WoW experience to death. We saw how they dug into not pulling the ripcord for the covenants with systemlands for a long time to the point it caused lasting damage to the game's reputation.

    I have stated this many times but if dragonriding fails the war against normal flying will end.

    This is the last gasp attempt of devs that really don't like players having their own agency with which to engage content of their own choosing.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    Dragonflying has not shot of succeeding long term with the current dev team determined to control how players engage with the world to the point of micro managing the WoW experience to death. We saw how they dug into not pulling the ripcord for the covenants with systemlands for a long time to the point it caused lasting damage to the game's reputation.

    I have stated this many times but if dragonriding fails the war against normal flying will end.

    This is the last gasp attempt of devs that really don't like players having their own agency with which to engage content of their own choosing.
    Why would you be playing a game if you believe the devs are geniunely invested in making your life worse. Just move on and do something that does not bring out that level of paranoia in you. It's not healthy!

  17. #217
    Nobody's invested in making the game and in conjunction anyone's "life" worse. The devs genuinely believed everything they did was the correct path and were determined to progress their design goals even against consistently negative feedback in beta testing and even the live game. Their sin is arrogance, not malice. They TRULY don't (or maybe, didn't) believe their players had anything of value to contribute.

    Now that WoW numbers are plummeting, FF14's are rising, and faced with multiple scandals and uncertainty with the MS acquisition, my hope is we're seeing cracks in that overbearing arrogance. It's happened before with EQ. The king falls off his throne and realizes "holy crap, we done goofed".

    There's a lot of turnaround in Dragonflight, no borrowed power, lots of account-wide unlocks, etc, so I have some hope that won't repeat quite as badly this time around. Maybe that's just me being naive, but I won't shut the door in their face until I play it myself. They very clearly said regular flying would be available later in the expansion. If they break that promise, I'll quit forever. Won't fool me twice, after the WoD debacle.

    Well, I guess thrice.
    Last edited by Schizoide; 2022-11-25 at 07:05 PM.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by AtomR View Post
    Why would you be playing a game if you believe the devs are geniunely invested in making your life worse. Just move on and do something that does not bring out that level of paranoia in you. It's not healthy!
    Actually I would argue paying for a product that is being rushed isn't healthy IMO. DF is not ready for launch and most people will learn of this truth in a few days. So what I am going to do is like I did with BFA. Wait and see the carnage unfold and the lies unravel.

    Honestly DF at endgame isn't much to do like WoD so....if they are pinning their hopes on dragonriding as keeping people's attention like WoD garrisons the current dev team are in for a rude awakening.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    Actually I would argue paying for a product that is being rushed isn't healthy IMO. DF is not ready for launch and most people will learn of this truth in a few days. So what I am going to do is like I did with BFA. Wait and see the carnage unfold and the lies unravel.

    Honestly DF at endgame isn't much to do like WoD so....if they are pinning their hopes on dragonriding as keeping people's attention like WoD garrisons the current dev team are in for a rude awakening.
    I... am not sure if you've been looking at Dragonflight's endgame. There's much, much more to do than both Shadowlands and BfA combined at their launch. I'm a little confused at your viewpoint.
    Wyrmrest Accord Alliance must make a comeback! Stop transferring to Moon Guard! Please!

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by saixilein View Post
    They should remove flying at all. Yeah its super fast and comfortable, but its bad for immersion.
    Not being able to fly is bad for my immersion. Seeing everyone and everything fly around me but me not being able too? No.

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