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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    it's great that you guys are enjoying it, but we heard the same thing about Torghast in beta
    We also heard that about things that people did enjoy and that stayed in the game ever since. Can't wow players ever make a sensible argument instead of pretty much always using either a false equivalence or a false dichotomy?

    The comparison with torghast is also disingenuous because torghast was designed as a chore that gated important power ups. Dragon riding is just a way to go from A to B that actually saves you time compared to regular flying and requires minimal (20-30 mins), non time gated, account wide time investment for maxing it out.

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    They said normal flying would be available int eh Dragon Isles.

    Yes, and it has nothing to do with the BS conspiracy theories you mention.

    Each zone was completely separate from the others. Since they were small, there was no need for the whistle. Also, the flight whistle was not faster than normal flying. Normal flying had ZERO to do with no whistle. Ion explained all that prior to SL.

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    I have been in beta and I can say you are wrong. YOu obviously haven't.
    I am in beta and DF isn't ready for launch.

    People will find out the truth about this expansion in less than 48 hours now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post

    As for everybody talking up dragon flying before the expansion releases, it's great that you guys are enjoying it, but we heard the same thing about Torghast in beta, remember? So yeah, waiting to see it myself.
    Dragonriding was nerfed badly from where it was in early alpha/beta. The same fate happened with Torghast because BlizZard believes in harsh opportunity costs with their balance approach.

    Which is why they will never allow flying to be released at launch and compete with dragon riding. Dragon Riding despite being "superior" than normal flying has many drastic opportunity costs associated while normal flying does not.

    Dragon riding also has too many limitations to be used for future expansions.

  3. #243
    This thread is the covenants will give meaningful choice of dragon flight.

    The new system is serviceable but people are building it up way to much.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPrincess View Post
    We also heard that about things that people did enjoy and that stayed in the game ever since. Can't wow players ever make a sensible argument instead of pretty much always using either a false equivalence or a false dichotomy?
    I've been extremely clear that I'm reserving my opinion until I try it myself. That is neither a false equivalence nor dichotomy.

    As for regular flight, I'm fine with it being added later in the expansion. 10.2 would be fine. The 11.0 prepatch, I would quit over that. But that's just me personally, of course YMMV.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    Which is why they will never allow flying to be released at launch and compete with dragon riding. Dragon Riding despite being "superior" than normal flying has many drastic opportunity costs associated while normal flying does not.

    Dragon riding also has too many limitations to be used for future expansions.
    Tell me you suck at dragon riding without telling me you suck at dragon riding.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    quote.
    So in your mind any single unskippable boss is bad because its a "limit".

    How do you do dungeons, raids or pvp with your mentality?

    Why does it take you 60 seconds+ to move 40 yards away from mobs?

    The last time we had elites guarding raids and dungeons was when we couldnt fly

    "nothing having to wait minutes before I can finally pull away from the computer for a minute or two."

    How slow exactly are you at moving away from mobs?

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    1- because you can get to m+ faster
    2- one of the m+ dungeons literally has dragon riding in it, so yes it will literally make you clear m+ dungeons faster...
    i was meaning its a side activity and if its enjoyable all the better but lets be honest here the real game is those 2 end game activities everything else is secondary. If it means i have to interact less with the world the overall better so hopefully its faster then flying so i can avoid more of the game i dislike.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by jeezusisacasual View Post
    i was meaning its a side activity and if its enjoyable all the better but lets be honest here the real game is those 2 end game activities everything else is secondary. If it means i have to interact less with the world the overall better so hopefully its faster then flying so i can avoid more of the game i dislike.
    That's a really toxic attitude. You're saying, "because I don't like X, I don't want X to be implemented into the greater game...". Also, those two end-game activities are everything to you, but for others, they might be the least meaningful. Everyone plays this game differently, and you're better off embracing it for what it is as a whole than pigeonholing yourself into a narrow band.

    As someone who does enjoy every aspect of the game, the fact that Dragonflying is incorporated into dungeons sounds incredible and I can't wait to experience it. I love it when you have mounted segments in dungeons, makes the dungeon feel so much more alive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpcat View Post
    While I agree dragon riding is much more fun than the old anti gravity air swimming it's quite obvious and reasonable that Blizzard will wait to see how the wider reception of the feature will go as the expansion launches and any decision will be made at least several months after the feature has been in use.

    I'd speculate that whatever world design is currently ongoing for the next expansion it is made with dragonriding in mind, but in the unlikely scenario that the feature flops they will either not rig the other mount models to it or may even disable it altogether.
    I'd rather them have fun with traversal and implement a new mount type for the next few expansions. Put together a new underwater expansion with an all-new aquatic mount built for underwater traversal with its unique mechanics like Dragonflying. Or maybe a goblin/gnome-themed tinker expansion where players create their planes or even airships. There is crazy potential for where they could go with this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    BUt you said that Dragonriding is superior, so your entire first paragraph is nonsense. That means you absolutely are scared and you aren't even 100% convinced of your own opinions. IF it is so much better as you claim, then legacy flying being available should not impact things at all

    You are really saying that you want people to be forced to use it because you know that people will go back to legacy flying if they don't. You absloutely terrified that Dragonriding will get taken away from you,

    Keep them both. Let the players decide which they want to use Stop trying to force what you want onto players that don't.
    What I'm saying is the typical user fears change, and if given a choice, they will stick with what they already know over whatever is new, even if what is new is objectively better. We see this behavior time and time again throughout every aspect of life. At first, the user rejects something new but is forced to use it. Then over time, one gains an appreciation for the improvements it brings before defending the thing they once rejected when that is eventually replaced by something new. This obviously doesn't apply in every example, but it is something to consider.

  9. #249
    Immortal Schattenlied's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugani View Post
    https://imgur.com/a/SGi3Y6D

    This is how it feels on live now after finally trying the Soar ability, even as just a simplified version it immediately made me hate coming back to normal flying. I can not wait until Dragonflight comes out just so I can spend time flying around, it's so refreshing. I swear, this better become evergreen and the start of 'mount classes' in Warcraft just like how they have a variety of 'mount classes' in Guild Wars 2.

    I really hope that by the end of this expansion, all of the Dragon, Pterrordax, Gryphons, Wyrms, and Protos have their animations retargeted so they can be integrated into the new flight system. Then over the next few expansions, they should slowly come up with other 'mount classes' for mounts that don't fit in those previously mentioned classes. I'd love to see all sorts of new methods of traveling.

    Dragonflying is probably the single most refreshing updated mechanic WoW has received since launch and I hope it does to travel what Mythic+ did for dungeons.
    100% agreed
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPrincess View Post
    Tell me you suck at dragon riding without telling me you suck at dragon riding.
    Dragon riding is a gimmick like flight whistle. Both are "faster" than normal flying until people start to realize they have been had with a gimmick.

    Honestly there exists people that liked avianas feather and flight whistle and I am not going to diminish what people like. But when people start to say dragon riding, avianas feather or flight whistle can replace normal flying I will laugh at that argument every single time.

    If BlizZard was serious about listening to players they would allow flying day 1 and let people choose between flying or dragon riding. But we KNOW why that will never happen....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    This thread is the covenants will give meaningful choice of dragon flight.

    The new system is serviceable but people are building it up way to much.
    Yes it is hyped too much and I think what will happen is there will be a split. Some people will love it and some people will hate dragon riding.

  11. #251
    Blizzard can listen to players and still make a game half decent. If trolls like you had their way you'd just /noclip to a chest at the end of mythic raids and claim you'd beaten the game.

    Comparing drangonriding to flight whistle or avianas is laughable in every way. Those items were added as a stop gap to allow people to skip game content without giving them flying. Drangonriding is literally meant to replace it, turning flying into a good gameplay mechanic, meeting the players halfway by giving what they want in a gamified format. They are game Devs. WoW is a game. Playing it is the point.

    And yes you might suck at it, a lot of people will at the start, but outside of accessibility issues which they're currently working on it's a case of get good or quit and good riddance.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilrox View Post
    That's a really toxic attitude. You're saying, "because I don't like X, I don't want X to be implemented into the greater game...". Also, those two end-game activities are everything to you, but for others, they might be the least meaningful. Everyone plays this game differently, and you're better off embracing it for what it is as a whole than pigeonholing yourself into a narrow band.

    .
    I dont care about anything involving the game besides those activities, the world means very little to me and lets not even talk about the narrative. For WoW the last 4 or so years i play a patch long enough for KSM then unsub since i have reached my goals i do not look at WoW as a living world since it offers nothing of the sort nor is there any real incentive outside of transmog to do any of it ( lets see how they handle professions to see if they belong in the dumpster also ). I want people to have fun doing what they do to enjoy it but my own personal enjoyment comes from completing the content and moving on ( outside of WoW and FF14 i dislike MMO's in general this is why it will be the first time i attempt raiding since the end of WoD and once thats cleared 1 time on mythic i am unsubbing again ).

    Until they make the world worth doing in a power progression manner i likely wont interact with it and if Dragonriding allows me to get from point A to point B faster then a traditional mount then great otherwise i could care less regarding it. I want everyone else to find their fun lets hope they are good enough at their job to entice me to want to interact with it.

  13. #253
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    So in your mind any single unskippable boss is bad because its a "limit".
    Nope.

    How do you do dungeons, raids or pvp with your mentality?
    You mean your strawman, not my mentality.

    The last time we had elites guarding raids and dungeons was when we couldnt fly
    You're avoiding the point. The point is that Blizzard doesn't really care about making a "challenging open world". Ever since the game launched, more and more Blizzard leaned toward accessibility rather than difficulty. Especially leveling, with how Blizzard makes it take less and less time to reach max level, removed most of the elites from the world, gave us heirlooms, etc etc etc.

    How slow exactly are you at moving away from mobs?
    In zones packed with mobs that also have patrolling mobs? You're unlikely to find safe shelter within five seconds if your hearthstone is on cooldown.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    Dragon riding is a gimmick like flight whistle. Both are "faster" than normal flying until people start to realize they have been had with a gimmick.

    Honestly there exists people that liked avianas feather and flight whistle and I am not going to diminish what people like. But when people start to say dragon riding, avianas feather or flight whistle can replace normal flying I will laugh at that argument every single time.
    Ah yeah bring out the good ole false equivalences. Flight whistle and avians feather are not comparable to either flying or dragon riding.

    Dragon riding is almost completely a superset of regular flying, with one con: you can't hover, and one pro: it's twice as fast.

    Functionally the difference between traveling from a to b with flying and dragon riding is vanishingly small, the only notable difference is that dragon riding is twice as fast. Unless you haven't figured out how to take off efficiently, climb efficiently and sustain flight efficiently (which are all super easy to do as to become second nature).

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilrox View Post
    That's a really toxic attitude. You're saying, "because I don't like X, I don't want X to be implemented into the greater game...". Also, those two end-game activities are everything to you, but for others, they might be the least meaningful. Everyone plays this game differently, and you're better off embracing it for what it is as a whole than pigeonholing yourself into a narrow band.
    No that is not what I am saying. YOU are the one who is tocic by saying"because I love x they should remove y". And no I should not be forced into what you want when both can exist at the same time to let the player decide which they wold rather use. AS you said everyone plays the game differently. Embrace that instead of forcing players to play your way you want to paly.

    As someone who does enjoy every aspect of the game, the fact that Dragonflying is incorporated into dungeons sounds incredible and I can't wait to experience it. I love it when you have mounted segments in dungeons, makes the dungeon feel so much more alive.[/;quote]Good for you. YOu stil have no argukment for removing regular flying other than "because I hate it".

    I'd rather them have fun with traversal and implement a new mount type for the next few expansions. Put together a new underwater expansion with an all-new aquatic mount built for underwater traversal with its unique mechanics like Dragonflying. Or maybe a goblin/gnome-themed tinker expansion where players create their planes or even airships. There is crazy potential for where they could go with this.
    And guess what? They don't have to remove normal fiyn gto do it. Again, why are you so scared to let them BOTH exist? YOu can still use your precious dragonriding while allowing others to use normal flying if they prefer that. Why are you so selfish?




    What I'm saying is the typical user fears change, and if given a choice, they will stick with what they already know over whatever is new, even if what is new is objectively better. We see this behavior time and time again throughout every aspect of life. At first, the user rejects something new but is forced to use it. Then over time, one gains an appreciation for the improvements it brings before defending the thing they once rejected when that is eventually replaced by something new. This obviously doesn't apply in every example, but it is something to consider.
    So? Who are you to dicate how other players play?: What business is it of yours how others play? You have zero argument to remove normal flying other than you know that yoru precious dragonflying will not be nearly as popular as you think. If you are so confident that dragonriding is superior, then you should have no issue letting them both exists at the same time. You are scared. Period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Healerme View Post
    Blizzard can listen to players and still make a game half decent. If trolls like you had their way you'd just /noclip to a chest at the end of mythic raids and claim you'd beaten the game.

    Comparing drangonriding to flight whistle or avianas is laughable in every way. Those items were added as a stop gap to allow people to skip game content without giving them flying. Drangonriding is literally meant to replace it, turning flying into a good gameplay mechanic, meeting the players halfway by giving what they want in a gamified format. They are game Devs. WoW is a game. Playing it is the point.

    And yes you might suck at it, a lot of people will at the start, but outside of accessibility issues which they're currently working on it's a case of get good or quit and good riddance.
    LOL It is not a repalcement and they know it. It is their way of giving flying on day 1 without giving the entirety of what normal flying gives.
    Last edited by rrayy; 2022-11-28 at 01:31 PM.

  16. #256
    Normal flying is just bullshit minecraft creative mode. Has absolutly nothing to do with flying.

    So yes i would agree very much with removing it and making dragonflight the new normal.

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPrincess View Post
    Ah yeah bring out the good ole false equivalences. Flight whistle and avians feather are not comparable to either flying or dragon riding.

    Dragon riding is almost completely a superset of regular flying, with one con: you can't hover, and one pro: it's twice as fast.

    Functionally the difference between traveling from a to b with flying and dragon riding is vanishingly small, the only notable difference is that dragon riding is twice as fast. Unless you haven't figured out how to take off efficiently, climb efficiently and sustain flight efficiently (which are all super easy to do as to become second nature).
    If there is no difference between the two other than DR being faster then there is no harm to allow normal flying day one.

    But we all know why that will never happen because DR has too many limitations compared to normal flying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    I've been extremely clear that I'm reserving my opinion until I try it myself. That is neither a false equivalence nor dichotomy.

    As for regular flight, I'm fine with it being added later in the expansion. 10.2 would be fine. The 11.0 prepatch, I would quit over that. But that's just me personally, of course YMMV.
    People will see for themselves starting today and the next few weeks.

    DR starts off fine but then you start to see the many, many limitations.

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    If there is no difference between the two other than DR being faster then there is no harm to allow normal flying day one.

    But we all know why that will never happen because DR has too many limitations compared to normal flying.
    Learning how to use dragon riding correctly requires a little bit of time and wow players being often both impatient and overconfident in their abilities, they'd never even give DR a chance if regular flying mounts were available right away. When they are, i can confidently say that the majority will continue using DR.

    But I can also confidently say that there will be a lot of terrible hot takes from people who will say that DR sucks after trying it a whole 5 minutes, or who will never really try to give it a chance. We've seen it in the beta. You're a perfect specimen.

    DR starts off fine but then you start to see the many, many limitations.
    List them.
    Last edited by ClownPrincess; 2022-11-28 at 03:05 PM.

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPrincess View Post
    Learning how to use dragon riding correctly requires a little bit of time and wow players being often both impatient and overconfident in their abilities, they'd never even give DR a chance if regular flying mounts were available right away. When they are, i can confidently say that the majority will continue using DR.
    First part is absolutely true. Second bit I guess we'll see, but I would be shocked if that's what happens.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPrincess View Post
    Learning how to use dragon riding correctly requires a little bit of time and wow players being often both impatient and overconfident in their abilities, they'd never even give DR a chance if regular flying mounts were available right away. When they are, i can confidently say that the majority will continue using DR.

    But I can also confidently say that there will be a lot of terrible hot takes from people who will say that DR sucks after trying it a whole 5 minutes, or who will never really try to give it a chance. We've seen it in the beta. You're a perfect specimen.


    List them.
    I am conifdent you will be wrong. They will quit after 5 minutes and never go back.

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