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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Nork View Post
    False. They have to go to BfA straight away after Exile's Reach. If you think that 10 levels are enough to learn everything you're gonna have to deal with in WoW, you're thoroughly wrong.
    True. And you STILL have not presented a shred of evidence to support your claim.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Nork View Post
    Hello, fellas.

    I've been thinking about the fact that after Exile's Reach, new players are thrown into Battle for Azeroth leveling, which is not a great start in terms of getting used to the game mechanics. I believe Blizzard should create a 10-60 starting experience, rather than just a 1-10 one. I don't advocate for a brand new zone, instead I believe a leveling experience in old zones that delves into a new quest storyline would be better. Maybe going through several continents and allowing players to get used to the game more easily.

    What do you think about this?
    No, current chromie time is cool. It also lets people chose their own story. Some expansions flow better for certain classes or people. As a druid, cata is fun to do . But you might want legions artifacts/class mounts.

    What you want is already there.

    And more story lines means more phased area's. Means way more resources for a few more quests.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nork View Post
    False. They have to go to BfA straight away after Exile's Reach. If you think that 10 levels are enough to learn everything you're gonna have to deal with in WoW, you're thoroughly wrong.
    10 levels are fine, could push it to 20, the rest should be trial and error, explore and learn.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Eosia View Post
    True. And you STILL have not presented a shred of evidence to support your claim.
    False. Honestly, I don't have to present any evidence, it's how it works if you're a new player. You must level up in BfA, you CAN'T choose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    No, current chromie time is cool. It also lets people chose their own story. Some expansions flow better for certain classes or people. As a druid, cata is fun to do . But you might want legions artifacts/class mounts.

    What you want is already there.

    And more story lines means more phased area's. Means way more resources for a few more quests.
    Did you read the part where I say "new players"? New players can't use Chromie time until they level up their first character to max level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lochton View Post
    10 levels are fine, could push it to 20, the rest should be trial and error, explore and learn.
    I disagree. In my opinion, new players should have a full levelling experience where they learn to use their class and get used to the game while they see Azeroth's history.

  5. #105
    I have played wow since launch and beta before that. And going into retail now again after playing classic, making a new character with my wife to prepare for Dragonflight was extremely off putting.

    We decided to just dungeon spam. Because that is seriously the only thing that makes sense after the 1-10 zone, which is fantastic btw.

    They should remake all "chromie adventures/expansions" to 10-60 lvl, remove most quests and make it a bit streamlined through every zone.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Nork View Post
    False. Honestly, I don't have to present any evidence, it's how it works if you're a new player. You must level up in BfA, you CAN'T choose.
    And this is bad why? You STILL have made absolutely zero case why BfA is so bad for new players. You prefer they be forced through Shadowlands instead?

    All expansions are the same in terms of leveling. You kill shit, you loot shit, you escort someone, and then there's that one quest that literally involves shit. They also involve dungeons which is where one really learns the mechanics of the class which usually ends up happening in the current expansion anyways since mechanics and such change as you level, especially with talent trees being back.

    Besides, chances are they will be required to do Dragonflight instead of BfA when 11.0 hits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Askyl View Post
    They should remake all "chromie adventures/expansions" to 10-60 lvl, remove most quests and make it a bit streamlined through every zone.
    In a way, they sort have done that from Legion onward. If you follow the main zone storyline, the that is exactly what happens. The side quests just become superfluous.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nork View Post
    I disagree. In my opinion, new players should have a full levelling experience where they learn to use their class and get used to the game while they see Azeroth's history.
    Why are you eager to take away exploration and adventure? Does everything need to be hand-holding? 10 levels of introduction are already enough to get going, I suggested 20 once the level cap goes higher, a little too much but a good additional step for some more advanced parts. The rest is part of the journey for you as a player and should stay so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Askyl View Post
    I have played wow since launch and beta before that. And going into retail now again after playing classic, making a new character with my wife to prepare for Dragonflight was extremely off putting.

    We decided to just dungeon spam. Because that is seriously the only thing that makes sense after the 1-10 zone, which is fantastic btw.

    They should remake all "chromie adventures/expansions" to 10-60 lvl, remove most quests and make it a bit streamlined through every zone.
    They already are, mate. 1-60 is all but current content. You don't need to remove quests because you just do what you want. Your leveling is already so damn smooth and streamlined that you will be done with the content before you are even halfway through. Leveling is the easiest ever, and I'm not counting the invasion XP.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eosia View Post
    And this is bad why? You STILL have made absolutely zero case why BfA is so bad for new players. You prefer they be forced through Shadowlands instead?

    All expansions are the same in terms of leveling. You kill shit, you loot shit, you escort someone, and then there's that one quest that literally involves shit. They also involve dungeons which is where one really learns the mechanics of the class which usually ends up happening in the current expansion anyways since mechanics and such change as you level, especially with talent trees being back.

    Besides, chances are they will be required to do Dragonflight instead of BfA when 11.0 hits.
    BfA levelling is some of the best experiences in the game. zones like Nazmir and Drustvar are simply fantastic. Vol'dun is the only really shit zone out of the 6.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    BfA levelling is some of the best experiences in the game. zones like Nazmir and Drustvar are simply fantastic. Vol'dun is the only really shit zone out of the 6.
    Yup. You'll get no disagreement from me there. The only thing about it that might be annoying is the lack of flight, but that is minor.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Deln View Post
    They should just make the old starting areas level scale, after exiles reach the game should send you to your racial starting area. adjust the rewards and exp.

    If you are playing a hero class or an ailed race then keep it as is for them.
    And how exactly is that making anything better about what OP is criticising? The starter areas don't teach you anything at all that Exile's Reach doesn't already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    BfA levelling is some of the best experiences in the game. zones like Nazmir and Drustvar are simply fantastic. Vol'dun is the only really shit zone out of the 6.
    I agree. The BfA leveling zones are all really good and fit quite well for new players. However I do personally wish that you could get to play all of the BfA dungeons while lvling (maybe that's now the case?) and have more optional content be available like Mechagon (doesn't relate to the overall BfA endgame story which they are trying to avoid telling to new players lvling)

  11. #111
    A lot of you who think this is a bad idea have a really poor understanding of how awful the new player experience in WoW is.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
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  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Lochton View Post
    Why are you eager to take away exploration and adventure? Does everything need to be hand-holding? 10 levels of introduction are already enough to get going, I suggested 20 once the level cap goes higher, a little too much but a good additional step for some more advanced parts. The rest is part of the journey for you as a player and should stay so.


    They already are, mate. 1-60 is all but current content. You don't need to remove quests because you just do what you want. Your leveling is already so damn smooth and streamlined that you will be done with the content before you are even halfway through. Leveling is the easiest ever, and I'm not counting the invasion XP.
    Mostly because leveling is a stinky smelly piece of shit.

    Its changeless, boring, grindy, doesn't teach the fundamentals of classes and is vestigial.

    Sure very,very simple people enjoy it. The kind who stare at fidget spinners for hours but it would be better...

    I would recommend a series of tests incorporating all of a classes abilities. A test where you need to properly cc or kite, one where you need to do your rotation for single target 80% effectly to pass another for aoe, etc.

    Actually teach people how to play the game so maybe the lower rungs are not stuffed with confused people doing hunter pet dps at max level.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    Mostly because leveling is a stinky smelly piece of shit.
    Leveling is at the best stage it has ever been, now it just needs to be taken more serious and not completed within a few hours. It is smooth and full of options compared to the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    Its changeless, boring, grindy, doesn't teach the fundamentals of classes and is vestigial.
    Grindy? Are you talking about Classic? Leveling now ain't grindy, as for boring, that is more down to yourself. As for the fundamentals, it does teach you them, easily so, you as a player then have to take those and apply them yourself to dungeons and higher.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    Sure very,very simple people enjoy it. The kind who stare at fidget spinners for hours but it would be better...
    I love leveling? I hate fidget spinners? I find it currently perfect in handling, now I just wish it would be stretched so it lasted longer instead of a speed run. You can level so fast that the idea of a boost on the store is a mocking joke, and if purchased, you are just flagged as rich enough to be lazy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    I would recommend a series of tests incorporating all of a classes abilities. A test where you need to properly cc or kite, one where you need to do your rotation for single target 80% effectly to pass another for aoe, etc.
    No thanks. What is missing is class quests to teach you the main abilities and their function (CCs, Combat ress, healing, cleansing, cleave, single target, mobility, and pet management). You reaching a high enough effectiveness is down to you as a player to learn, not the game to teach you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    Actually teach people how to play the game so maybe the lower rungs are not stuffed with confused people doing hunter pet dps at max level.
    You do learn how to play the game from the basics, you are asking for people to reach an effective level which they have to learn and get used to themselves. That is where the journey starts and you need to read into things.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  14. #114
    Do you believe that this game is still getting enough new players that Blizzard would consider it?...
    Even if its true it would be absolutely pointless as leveling process teaches almost nothing of end game acivities.
    Also they already did this short lvl 1-10 scenario as tutorial in BFA i believe?

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Mendzia View Post
    Do you believe that this game is still getting enough new players that Blizzard would consider it?...
    Even if its true it would be absolutely pointless as leveling process teaches almost nothing of end game acivities.
    Also they already did this short lvl 1-10 scenario as tutorial in BFA i believe?
    Yeah but they put a teacher npc in that gives horrible advice... my favorite is mages use fire blast at close range...

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Lochton View Post
    Leveling is at the best stage it has ever been, now it just needs to be taken more serious and not completed within a few hours. It is smooth and full of options compared to the past.


    Grindy? Are you talking about Classic? Leveling now ain't grindy, as for boring, that is more down to yourself. As for the fundamentals, it does teach you them, easily so, you as a player then have to take those and apply them yourself to dungeons and higher.


    I love leveling? I hate fidget spinners? I find it currently perfect in handling, now I just wish it would be stretched so it lasted longer instead of a speed run. You can level so fast that the idea of a boost on the store is a mocking joke, and if purchased, you are just flagged as rich enough to be lazy.


    No thanks. What is missing is class quests to teach you the main abilities and their function (CCs, Combat ress, healing, cleansing, cleave, single target, mobility, and pet management). You reaching a high enough effectiveness is down to you as a player to learn, not the game to teach you.


    You do learn how to play the game from the basics, you are asking for people to reach an effective level which they have to learn and get used to themselves. That is where the journey starts and you need to read into things.
    Leveling right now is insanely grindy. Leveling in classic is not very grind at all. I don't think you quite understand what a grind is. The reason leveling is a grind in retail is because its just quest quest quest quest quest quest quest. There is extremely little variation. You pick up 2-4 quests, follow the arrow, complete them, hand them in, repeat. It's hour after hour after hour of that same fast, repeating pattern. In Classic there is a lot of downtime like travel and professions to break things up.
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  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Lochton View Post
    Leveling is at the best stage it has ever been, now it just needs to be taken more serious and not completed within a few hours. It is smooth and full of options compared to the past.


    Grindy? Are you talking about Classic? Leveling now ain't grindy, as for boring, that is more down to yourself. As for the fundamentals, it does teach you them, easily so, you as a player then have to take those and apply them yourself to dungeons and higher.


    I love leveling? I hate fidget spinners? I find it currently perfect in handling, now I just wish it would be stretched so it lasted longer instead of a speed run. You can level so fast that the idea of a boost on the store is a mocking joke, and if purchased, you are just flagged as rich enough to be lazy.


    No thanks. What is missing is class quests to teach you the main abilities and their function (CCs, Combat ress, healing, cleansing, cleave, single target, mobility, and pet management). You reaching a high enough effectiveness is down to you as a player to learn, not the game to teach you.


    You do learn how to play the game from the basics, you are asking for people to reach an effective level which they have to learn and get used to themselves. That is where the journey starts and you need to read into things.
    It's a pointless mindless grind. You can hit level cap spamming whatever the game auto assigns your 2 key.

    It's barely a video game at this point and just a dull movie. By level 5 if you let a caster get off a three second cast you need to lose 60% of your hp.

    The worlds changed hit up steam for the most played games. Never lose is out of style.

  18. #118
    I'm not sure the content is the problem, its that blizz will make leveling easy or hard seemingly at random between expansions. During Legion before any of the level scaling stuff it was fairly easy to level and alt, fast forward to bfa and it felt like I was doing entire zones for 1-2 levels, then they reduce the xp needed again and you zoom to 50 in shadowlands only to hit a brick wall again where I was finishing all the shadowlands quests before reaching 60. Blizz just needs to maybe figure out a number of how long they think a 1to-current run should be and balance around that

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Leveling right now is insanely grindy. Leveling in classic is not very grind at all. I don't think you quite understand what a grind is. The reason leveling is a grind in retail is because its just quest quest quest quest quest quest quest. There is extremely little variation. You pick up 2-4 quests, follow the arrow, complete them, hand them in, repeat. It's hour after hour after hour of that same fast, repeating pattern. In Classic there is a lot of downtime like travel and professions to break things up.
    Sooooo, just like all other expansions? You make the downtime yourself now. Leveling is so smoothed out and fast that if you want downtime, you have to take it yourself because people seemingly had a problem with leveling in the first place. It is not grindy at all, and if it is, then it is due to bad personal management of yourself. You have so many methods and paths to level on now.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Nork View Post
    That's a good question, pal. What I've got in mind is something pretty similar to the Exile's Reach experience. Adding also class quests.
    But how often would those zones need to be updated?
    all the chromie time was once relevant in terms of story and no longer are. Similarly, the cata revamp is no longer relevant and as such you're asking for its replacement. inevitably this same thing would happen to that new zone. Or are you saying the story and quest in those new zones would be so much filler and pointless that they wouldn't mean anything and not needed to be updated ever.

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