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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    I play FF14 exclusively on controller. The games are very similar, but there are key differences:

    1. WoW's menus are not built around gamepad.
    2. The way you interact with the world in WoW is very M+K focused, with many encounters being very much based on running around clicking things.
    3. Healing in WoW practically requires mouseover healing, while in FF14 it is not nearly that intensive.
    4. Rapidly switching targets is key in a lot of content, and this is a pain point with gamepad. That's why FF14 has so few multi-target fights.

    They could certainly reorient wow to this, and I believe they could do it without making the game worse for anyone, but it's not a 1:1 comparison. The differences are actually pretty big despite the superficial similarities of how the games play.
    1. UI design problem, easily fixable
    2. Not sure how this is undoable with gamepad
    3. This is actually a problem that would require more things, but going through raid frames with gamepad is doable but obv cumbersome
    4. WoW is already a tab-target game, so doable

    I do agree that WoW would need quite a lot of stuff changed to work properly on gamepad, but not impossible. Easiest would be to just have it separately, not cross-play, but that's stupid. BUT since WoW is an ancient game, I don't think it will ever be done because of potentially not ever paying back the investment.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilpi View Post
    1. UI design problem, easily fixable
    2. Not sure how this is undoable with gamepad
    3. This is actually a problem that would require more things, but going through raid frames with gamepad is doable but obv cumbersome
    4. WoW is already a tab-target game, so doable

    I do agree that WoW would need quite a lot of stuff changed to work properly on gamepad, but not impossible. Easiest would be to just have it separately, not cross-play, but that's stupid. BUT since WoW is an ancient game, I don't think it will ever be done because of potentially not ever paying back the investment.
    1. Creating an entire gamepad UI for a game with as many distinct, unique UI elements as WoW is not as easy as you think it is. That is an extremely large amount of work.

    2. Expecting people to be able to as rapidly interact with the environment with a gamepad as they can with M+K is not realistic, and just hand waving away that issue isn't going to change that. You can't have the level of precision with gamepad that you can with M+K unless you have complex auto targeting systems that open the door to serious exploits.

    3. Using directional buttons to move through the raid frames is going to be far too slow for a lot of content. In FF14, healers spend the vast majority of their healing-time healing the tanks. The rest of the group can avoid almost all damage.

    4. People aren't lazily tab targeting through 5 mobs to pull off an interrupt that you have to do within 2 seconds. You need to be able to click on enemies for that kind of speed. FF14 doesn't have those types of challenges because a gamepad is very difficult to use for situations like that. Multi-target situations with rapid responses to individual enemies is a core mechanic of wow encounter design, especially in M+.

    I understand that superficially the games are very similar, but when it comes to how the content actually plays, they aren't as similar as you are arguing they are. I prefer FF14s design and I would love if WoW switched to it, but I don't think you fully appreciate how different it is.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
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  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Nork View Post
    Hello, fellas.

    I've been thinking about the fact that after Exile's Reach, new players are thrown into Battle for Azeroth leveling, which is not a great start in terms of getting used to the game mechanics. I believe Blizzard should create a 10-60 starting experience, rather than just a 1-10 one. I don't advocate for a brand new zone, instead I believe a leveling experience in old zones that delves into a new quest storyline would be better. Maybe going through several continents and allowing players to get used to the game more easily.

    What do you think about this?
    I always thought they should make one zone in chromie time where a mainquest leads you though the main story of wow and no other quest is available.
    Just to see it and playing through a consistent world without confusion.
    They can add part of the mainquest of every epxansion into it an strtch the xp so it fits with the xp required.

    99% of wow is fluff und unneccesary fetch an kill quests. remove all of that and you have a consistent story you can play through over a month and then reach max level.

    Of course you can do everything there was whenever you want. Compeltly optional but basically the default option. Opt out so to say.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kilpi View Post
    1. UI design problem, easily fixable
    2. Not sure how this is undoable with gamepad
    3. This is actually a problem that would require more things, but going through raid frames with gamepad is doable but obv cumbersome
    4. WoW is already a tab-target game, so doable

    I do agree that WoW would need quite a lot of stuff changed to work properly on gamepad, but not impossible. Easiest would be to just have it separately, not cross-play, but that's stupid. BUT since WoW is an ancient game, I don't think it will ever be done because of potentially not ever paying back the investment.
    I don't think gamepad as a pillar of how you can play the game would be good for wow... you would need to cut so much stuff because you are way less reactive that with mouse and KB. Healing would be a joke. And you either cut 90% of the abilities or make the roatation so fixed you could let a bot play it.

    Gamepad support is (as they JUST said in one of the interviews just for accessibility reasons. There is no play to make it an integral part of wow or bring it to consol and i hope there NEVER will be.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    1. Creating an entire gamepad UI for a game with as many distinct, unique UI elements as WoW is not as easy as you think it is. That is an extremely large amount of work.

    2. Expecting people to be able to as rapidly interact with the environment with a gamepad as they can with M+K is not realistic, and just hand waving away that issue isn't going to change that. You can't have the level of precision with gamepad that you can with M+K unless you have complex auto targeting systems that open the door to serious exploits.

    3. Using directional buttons to move through the raid frames is going to be far too slow for a lot of content. In FF14, healers spend the vast majority of their healing-time healing the tanks. The rest of the group can avoid almost all damage.

    4. People aren't lazily tab targeting through 5 mobs to pull off an interrupt that you have to do within 2 seconds. You need to be able to click on enemies for that kind of speed. FF14 doesn't have those types of challenges because a gamepad is very difficult to use for situations like that. Multi-target situations with rapid responses to individual enemies is a core mechanic of wow encounter design, especially in M+.

    I understand that superficially the games are very similar, but when it comes to how the content actually plays, they aren't as similar as you are arguing they are. I prefer FF14s design and I would love if WoW switched to it, but I don't think you fully appreciate how different it is.
    Oh I do, and I don't want WoW on consoles. I'm just saying it could be done, but it wouldn't be worth the effort. And that's why they're not gonna do it, even if MS manages to buy ActiBlizz. But as I said, in order for WoW to work on consoles, it should be it's separate game with same content, but modified. The game can already be played as a gamepad game, but admittedly only really playable through questing and maybe leveling dungeons.

    I wouldn't be surprised though, if at some point someone higher (like Bobby the Shithead or someone of his henchmen) tried to start pushing WoW to be ported to consoles, and all the pruning and simplification of the game was a gradual change towards that. But they've ditched the idea and now that abilities are getting un-pruned and stuff like that, it seems less and less likely that WoW will ever be on consoles.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    I don't think gamepad as a pillar of how you can play the game would be good for wow... you would need to cut so much stuff because you are way less reactive that with mouse and KB. Healing would be a joke. And you either cut 90% of the abilities or make the roatation so fixed you could let a bot play it.

    Gamepad support is (as they JUST said in one of the interviews just for accessibility reasons. There is no play to make it an integral part of wow or bring it to consol and i hope there NEVER will be.
    I agree it would suck monkeyballs, but the game (outside of raids and other hard group stuff) is playable with gamepad "properly" with addons, not just accessibility thing (which it officially is).

  5. #145
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  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Lochton View Post
    Why are you eager to take away exploration and adventure? Does everything need to be hand-holding? 10 levels of introduction are already enough to get going, I suggested 20 once the level cap goes higher, a little too much but a good additional step for some more advanced parts. The rest is part of the journey for you as a player and should stay so.


    They already are, mate. 1-60 is all but current content. You don't need to remove quests because you just do what you want. Your leveling is already so damn smooth and streamlined that you will be done with the content before you are even halfway through. Leveling is the easiest ever, and I'm not counting the invasion XP.
    Yes, lvling is easy. But it's insane. You go do 1 quest in Goldshire and BAM you're a fucking hero with 5 extra lvls and oneshot everything. That's the off putting thing. Lvling is a rushed odd thing now that Blizzard changed so much to make "I want max lvl alts" people happy.

    Most of us love classic because the lvling is so chilled out. Takes some time but it's actually part of the game. Lvling in retail is literally just a hinderence from max lvl.

    That's kind of what I would like em to change. Actually have real lvling and exploring the world, not teleporting and becoming a superhero.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Nork View Post
    Hello, fellas.

    I've been thinking about the fact that after Exile's Reach, new players are thrown into Battle for Azeroth leveling, which is not a great start in terms of getting used to the game mechanics. I believe Blizzard should create a 10-60 starting experience, rather than just a 1-10 one. I don't advocate for a brand new zone, instead I believe a leveling experience in old zones that delves into a new quest storyline would be better. Maybe going through several continents and allowing players to get used to the game more easily.

    What do you think about this?
    The idea is sound, and that was probably somewhat the thinking Blizzard had with Cataclysm. Problem is, this only postpone the ineviatble. I mean, if they did what you suggest today, in the not to distant future people would demand a new 10-60 experience. Cause the game keeps moving forward. As such, old leveling content will slack behind. Cant really win with it.

    That said... I dont think the cata leveling is THAT bad compared to new xpac questing. Its probably VERY confusing though for new players, with all the content available.

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