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  1. #1

    Anyone else completely overwhelmed by new talents?

    I'll preface by saying I'm not really into creating builds and messing about with stats and all that stuff but I'm very grateful to people that are.

    The talents in Dragonflight just completely overwhelm me. I don't even know where to begin (and I'm aware there's a starter build ready for me) There are SO many choices. How does one even keep track of what they need to do?

    In my mind it's like, 'Okay, so I now need to spend a talent on Rampage, an ability a previously core ability, but to do that I need to spend this much, but if I do, will I be able to get this spell later on down the line? I'd like this talent, but does it fit well with this one? Oh, I've spent too much somewhere, need to backtrack and redo all these talents. Wait, where was I?'

    Is there a way to go about thinking about the choices in a better way?


  2. #2
    Yes, old talents were simple and effective talents that increased combat effectiveness, such as +5% dmg, -10% mana cost, +3% hit etc

    New talents completely change your playstyle, you can add like 10 buttons from talents alone

    I fear that we'll have to have 10 different "loadouts" for different encounters and have to re-adjust our playstyle for every encounter which for me as a casual player is very overwhelming

    I'll stick to classic for now where I have 1 build for pvp and 1 for pve and I'm content

  3. #3
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enclave View Post
    Yes, old talents were simple and effective talents that increased combat effectiveness, such as +5% dmg, -10% mana cost, +3% hit etc

    New talents completely change your playstyle, you can add like 10 buttons from talents alone

    I fear that we'll have to have 10 different "loadouts" for different encounters and have to re-adjust our playstyle for every encounter which for me as a casual player is very overwhelming

    I'll stick to classic for now where I have 1 build for pvp and 1 for pve and I'm content
    Lol imagine saying "our talents are shitty all they do is just give stats. They are better"
    which isnt even true, classic talents are full of "new ability, this now does this, this triggers this, that does this...
    Cope.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Lol imagine saying "our talents are shitty all they do is just give stats. They are better"
    which isnt even true, classic talents are full of "new ability, this now does this, this triggers this, that does this...
    Cope.
    Some were meaningful but majority of tree was simple, in wotlk you get 2-3 active spells from talents and they are mandatory no choice there

  5. #5
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enclave View Post
    Some were meaningful but majority of tree was simple, in wotlk you get 2-3 active spells from talents and they are mandatory no choice there
    Why is a shitty talent tree full of mostly "x does Y more damage" and "mandatory" talents somehow "good" ?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Why is a shitty talent tree full of mostly "x does Y more damage" and "mandatory" talents somehow "good" ?
    Idk I'm not a game designer, I just know how I feel and I feel better with WOTLK style talents over DF style talents

  7. #7
    I'm not overwhelmed by it, but while doing my pre-launch prepping (sorting banks, adjusting to new UI, etc) I find myself often annoyed that I have to search for certain abilities inside those trees. Especially if it's a mutually exclusive with another. That's not very noticiable for one spec, but if you have multiple chars with multiple specs it becomes quite annoying - especially if you don't know if they skill/talent even still exists.. and then there are those skills that moved into the general tree for no reason (meteor).
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  8. #8
    Some of the tree's have some frustrating compromises at current cap, but will be nicer with the extra points available at DF max level. Others work just fine without them.

    Tangentially, I'm most salty about the priest class design and resultant talent tree's - I really wanted to main priest this expansion, all I wanted to see from the talent shuffle maybe was some allignment of cooldown timers, maybe some more fun procs to play around and mix up the rotation, but instead they've gone and broken mind sear, added in mind spike again (if anything it should have been as a replacement for mind flay to change the rotation/playstile, not an addition) and disc is just downright weird right now.

    Shadow has come out of the rejig super bloated in terms of buttons and cooldowns required for a normal effective rotation (as did brewmaster imo). Still needs work, which it isnt going to get this side of 10.2 etc at the earliest, so rules it out for me as a main sadly.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Why is a shitty talent tree full of mostly "x does Y more damage" and "mandatory" talents somehow "good" ?
    Fairly obvious honestly

    Pretty much your entire class is now behind talent trees - meaning certain talents are are going to be more mandatory and required than ever

    If X is like a 5% damage increase or 10% mana cost reduc, perhaps you can sacrifice it for Y which is perhaps not meta but something you like and you'll get away with it

    Now however, you show me a mage who isn't taking ice block, alter time and blast wave and I'll show you a mage getting kicked from every group and is fundamentally gimping themselves

    The pick one of three talent trees objectively were less cookie-cutter than these; much more options but less choice - it's actually impressive

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Season2mask View Post
    I'll preface by saying I'm not really into creating builds and messing about with stats and all that stuff but I'm very grateful to people that are.

    The talents in Dragonflight just completely overwhelm me. I don't even know where to begin (and I'm aware there's a starter build ready for me) There are SO many choices. How does one even keep track of what they need to do?

    In my mind it's like, 'Okay, so I now need to spend a talent on Rampage, an ability a previously core ability, but to do that I need to spend this much, but if I do, will I be able to get this spell later on down the line? I'd like this talent, but does it fit well with this one? Oh, I've spent too much somewhere, need to backtrack and redo all these talents. Wait, where was I?'

    Is there a way to go about thinking about the choices in a better way?

    I have the exact opposite; i gloss over all the nodes, pick those containing abilities i really like and then determine which path i like most to get there.
    Honestly my biggest "gripe" is that i am not allowed "pure" single target stuff on some classes, but then on ones that allow more of it i occasionally find myself short of any meaningful amount of aoe.

    The old system had these disconnected choices that made it much more "whatever, i'll just look at a build" than this system which helps you along in a quite natural way.

    And yeah sometimes you need to make a difficult choice, but that is exactly like the old system: "Do i want this one, this one OR this one?".
    Last edited by loras; 2022-11-27 at 12:20 PM.
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  11. #11
    I think they did a good job of balancing buffs and abilities on the couple of classes I've messed around with. I think those extra points we'll get from 60 to 70 will make a difference too in feeling less constrained as some trees are probably mostly built out by 60, while a few might feel streatched thin at lvl 60 just to pickup a core talent

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Enclave View Post
    Some were meaningful but majority of tree was simple, in wotlk you get 2-3 active spells from talents and they are mandatory no choice there
    or worse, you did hybrid trees to min-max your spec with stat boost talents without being allowed to really play with any of the interesting stuff, and then got sneered at constantly by l33t raiders if you didn't. I remember people being way more annoying back then about this stuff and I was glad to see cata force you to take a spec

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Enclave View Post
    Yes, old talents were simple and effective talents that increased combat effectiveness, such as +5% dmg, -10% mana cost, +3% hit etc

    New talents completely change your playstyle, you can add like 10 buttons from talents alone

    I fear that we'll have to have 10 different "loadouts" for different encounters and have to re-adjust our playstyle for every encounter which for me as a casual player is very overwhelming

    I'll stick to classic for now where I have 1 build for pvp and 1 for pve and I'm content
    If you're a casual player you won't be forced to have 10 different loadouts. A casual player would play a general all round spec, maybe a ST and cleave/aoe build.

    If you minmax every encounter, you aint casual.

    The trees can be overwhelming for a class you don't know. On my Mage, looking through the trees everything made sense to me, and I recognised everything. When I made an Evoker, I just lost all interest when I got hit with the talent tree at 60. I was hoping to start at a lower lvl and learn the tree through lvl'n.
    Last edited by Tekko; 2022-11-27 at 02:04 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Tekko View Post
    If you're a casual player you won't be forced to have 10 different loadouts. A casual player would play a general all round spec, maybe a ST and cleave/aoe build.

    If you minmax every encounter, you aint casual.

    The trees can be overwhelming for a class you don't know. On my Mage, looking through the trees everything made sense to me, and I recognised everything. When I made an Evoker, I just lost all interest when I got hit with the talent tree at 60. I was hoping to start at a lower lvl and learn the tree through lvl'n.
    This.
    Powerlevelled some classes and that got pretty weird.
    But when i actually played them a little it got a lot better.
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  14. #14
    Its just a new shiny toy that you are not used too.
    I was fortunate enough to get beta and initially i felt exactly the same "what the hell is going on" but after having played with it off and on for a couple weeks, its pretty solid and familiar. You remember the icons and the search function works very well.

  15. #15
    The Patient Dawnseeker's Avatar
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    Honestly I think I prefer a well designed core with a few meaningful choices over the build-it-yourself trees

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnseeker View Post
    Honestly I think I prefer a well designed core with a few meaningful choices over the build-it-yourself trees
    Thats what the default builds are for?

  17. #17
    No. because its just as cookie cutter as it always been. You don't really have many choices. Most of the points you have to spend on shit just to get your class back to what it was before the new talent came. The fact you need to set a talent point in stuff like multishot is 100% ree

  18. #18
    The talents are so easy to learn, just read them. Not even a challenge
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  19. #19
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    No. because its just as cookie cutter as it always been. You don't really have many choices. Most of the points you have to spend on shit just to get your class back to what it was before the new talent came. The fact you need to set a talent point in stuff like multishot is 100% ree
    So do you prefer more points, where you can choose what you do/do not want?
    Or would you prefer less points, but most of the choices are already made for you, because those points you would have are instead removed, and you are forced to have the spells, if you want them or not?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    So do you prefer more points, where you can choose what you do/do not want?
    Or would you prefer less points, but most of the choices are already made for you, because those points you would have are instead removed, and you are forced to have the spells, if you want them or not?
    that one is super interesting.

    if you had old abilities baseline then we would have a small tree and not a big tree.

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