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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    personaly i rly hated feeling forced to do m+ to be better in raids,i wanna raid not spam m+

    And I want raiding to die 10 years ago like it should have.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Merin View Post
    And I want raiding to die 10 years ago like it should have.
    why?no1 forces you to spam raids 24/7 like with m+

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    I have, and I have.

    I now play single-player RPGs modded for hardcore difficulty. It's not the same, but it's still a nice challenge. WoW isn't the be-all end-all of things, and alternatives to WoW don't have to be 1:1 replacements.

    That being said, the lack of difficulty wasn't what made ME quit, but even shut-in little me knows dozens of people who'd quit in a heartbeat if there was no more top-tier challenge content in WoW.
    Yeah idk most are not going to be happy with single players stuff probably. I mean almost everyone I knew in the HoF guild on my old server had no job or a job but no social life. Basically bitching about wow non stop while being unable to go anywhere else because it was a lifestyle as much as a game

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    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    Moving goal posts much, huh. I would agree with you that 50k was pitiful if only 50k could access content, but trust me, every single player who manages to reach max level has access to all of the content and difficulty levels to accommodate every single player are pretty good.
    Being designed for someone isn't about "having access to the content" lol

    The original point here is that the max gear reward difficulty from m+ went up a ton this expansion, from 15-20 and with like double scaling. That's a huge difference and I guess we'll find out if people are happy with it or if they crater it with nerfs in Jan/Feb

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by tomten View Post
    Meta is a community thing and not reality. Exactly every spec in the entire game can do +20 with ez.
    I'd go as far as you could do +28s in s4 with literally any spec.
    A good player can do a +20 key with ease on any spec. But most players are not good. Meta specs don't require you to be a good player to do +20 with ease, that's the difference between meta and off meta.
    And gear, of course.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    A good player can do a +20 key with ease on any spec. But most players are not good. Meta specs don't require you to be a good player to do +20 with ease, that's the difference between meta and off meta.
    And gear, of course.
    Double? I mean if you do a +40 it probably is double.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    Double? I mean if you do a +40 it probably is double.
    ?
    read again, I think you might have misquoted or misread.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    ?
    read again, I think you might have misquoted or misread.
    Yeah, it was meant for person above you
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashana Darkmoon View Post
    The original point here is that the max gear reward difficulty from m+ went up a ton this expansion, from 15-20 and with like double scaling.

  8. #48
    The meta starts to matter long after the rewards stop in m+, any class/spec can complete a 20. If you're having trouble getting invited to a group, start one yourself. It's not rocket surgery.

  9. #49
    The highest loot is same as before with end of run being equilavent to most HC loot and weekly chest being equilavent to, only now you need +20 to get to this ilvl whereas in prev expacs it was +15.

    The idea is m+ will have same loot comparatively, but will need to work a bit harder for it. Personally, i'm in favor, as it gives you something extra to chase beside KM mount and 20s aren't crazily harder then 15s once you get geared.

  10. #50
    Achieving 20+ is easy but it still requires you to be fluent with your class, get a sense of coldowns, pathing, priorities. You cannot have it straight away with first gathered geared pug.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    I agree. I loved stuff such as Karazhan and Zul'aman back in the day. I have fond memories of the 10 man format.
    It's just only with advantages. The mappers (and fight designers) have all the freedom in the world to tailor it to 10man instead of flex' mess.
    The argument of 'too much separation of sizes' doesn't cut it because it's countered easily with 'tiny 5man is too overused now'.
    "If you have questions or suggestions about moderation, you go to a global (blue) moderator with them and discuss the matter in PMs. These kinds of discussions NEVER work out in public." xskarma, global moderator off mmo-champion, defender of democracy

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    the same teams of 5 specific specs were dominating the entire 9.x expansion. if that's not "reality" I don't know what is.

    and if you say "I don't care about rankings": then: why do you want to play m+ and not normal mode?
    Nice strawman. Way to completely ignore where they said every spec can do a +20.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Opeth69 View Post
    another season of the best gear for m+ not coming from m+, and people wonder why this game is dead
    Of course you would think that if you won't run high keys or look at the loot tables from keys.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardux View Post
    Nice strawman. Way to completely ignore where they said every spec can do a +20.

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    Of course you would think that if you won't run high keys or look at the loot tables from keys.
    It's not about loot from high keys, the highest i lv gear is still from raiding, when I'm looking to push 25+ my best gear still comes from raiding or at least some of it, that's a simple fact. I get they dont want parity between end boss mythic raid and m+ but they already have a system in place (pvp gear scaling) that could literally fix this issue without impacting raiding, and make m+ gear the best gear for m+.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardux View Post
    Nice strawman. Way to completely ignore where they said every spec can do a +20.

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    Of course you would think that if you won't run high keys or look at the loot tables from keys.
    I mean every spec can clear mythic raids to but there are usually specs will low 100 logs or less that are only brought as carries or for laughs late into farm. I don't think people are genuinely saying certain specs are not viable for mythic plus are they?

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    I mean every spec can clear mythic raids to but there are usually specs will low 100 logs or less that are only brought as carries or for laughs late into farm. I don't think people are genuinely saying certain specs are not viable for mythic plus are they?
    Go ahead and travel back in time to literally any part of SL and try getting an invite as a Feral Druid then get back to us.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Go ahead and travel back in time to literally any part of SL and try getting an invite as a Feral Druid then get back to us.
    That is the point I'm making... just because any spec can in theory clear the content doesn't mean anyone is gonna kneecap themselves by bringing them.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    m+ is overrated, because it's an extremely small group so the metas of a handful of specs are inevitably potent; 20 has metas too but due to more slots it's less severe; m+'s biggest advantage is that it can be easily formed in the middle of the day of any day.

    they should re-introduce 10man hard mode; it would be in its own unique instances and not flex so it doesn't contaminate the competition; it would create a good middle ground between the tiny 5man and big 20.
    well i do enjoy M+ beacuse i can do it whenever i want and its easy to set up, not to mention 5 people is way less hassle aswell. who in the world want to sit on progression bosses for weeks with no garantuees of any useful loot, not to mention that your guild might not even be anywhere near CE if you are unlucky. Raiding has its place in wow but it starts getting outdated at this point, 10 man would atleast elevate some of the issues (still not fun wiping on a boss for 2 weeks straight and wasting both consumables and time). Its a shame M+ gets dumped on when its pretty evident that its a very loved gamemode, if raids were more like it and not a pain in the behind like sepulcher, maybe more people would raid, until then M+ is the way to go on my end.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Merin View Post
    And I want raiding to die 10 years ago like it should have.
    Why? I can actually understand raiders disliking having to run m+ over and over again to be viable in raids. But those that dont care about raiding doesnt have to do raiding. At all. If you want to do m+ and not raid, its perfectly fine. If you are pushing difficulty in raids, you gotta run m+.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Makaloff View Post
    well i do enjoy M+ beacuse i can do it whenever i want and its easy to set up, not to mention 5 people is way less hassle aswell. who in the world want to sit on progression bosses for weeks with no garantuees of any useful loot, not to mention that your guild might not even be anywhere near CE if you are unlucky. Raiding has its place in wow but it starts getting outdated at this point, 10 man would atleast elevate some of the issues (still not fun wiping on a boss for 2 weeks straight and wasting both consumables and time). Its a shame M+ gets dumped on when its pretty evident that its a very loved gamemode, if raids were more like it and not a pain in the behind like sepulcher, maybe more people would raid, until then M+ is the way to go on my end.
    tbh im just waiting for Blizzard to incorporate the dungeon system(m+) into raids.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    That is the point I'm making... just because any spec can in theory clear the content doesn't mean anyone is gonna kneecap themselves by bringing them.
    The meta really is annoying. One can circle around it by creating your own group and/or join a community/guild. Unless you are a tank. Then you can join any group at any time heh.

    This time im going to main a BM hunter & to some degree a paladin tank. I have literally no idea what the meta is, I dont care about it. The two things i've done is to join a decent enough guild and started to form my own groups. I check peoples ranking and go by that.

    And I have the mindset of "if this run goes down the shitter, well thats how it is" and move on.

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