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  1. #41
    lolno.

    ALL of the most popular games by population/income are primarily PvE based. Yes, games like Diablo, et al, often have PvP modes, but that is not the focus of the game and is NOT why people are playing them (same with Path of Exile, almost all MMOs, etc).

    Games that are PvP-centric (which WoW was not, despite PvP being the end-game activity with the largest percentage of players involved) make up a comparatively much smaller crowd of multiplayer gamers. Its still a significant number of people, to be sure, but its small in comparison to people who do multiplayer for co-op.

    League of legends, Call of duty, fortnite, apex legends, overwatch, FIFA, NFL, CSGO, DOta, PUBG

    Do I need to keep going?

    No PvE game even comes close to those numbers, what are the popular pve games, wow FFXIV and destiny 2?
    Last edited by Enclave; 2022-12-11 at 11:51 AM.

  2. #42
    I am Murloc! Mister K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kagthul View Post
    snip.
    Will PVP gear dominate in PVE? No. PVE gear should not be on-par or better than PVP gear in a PVP setting otherwise reverse should apply too. Additionally, as explained numerous times, getting a full 411 takes less than half a day.
    -K

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Enclave View Post
    League of legends, Call of duty, fortnite, apex legends, overwatch, FIFA, NFL, CSGO, DOta, PUBG

    Do I need to keep going?

    No PvE game even comes close to those numbers, what are the popular pve games, wow FFXIV and destiny 2?
    .... lolwhut. You clearly have no idea what you're even talking about, and you seem to believe that the populations of a lot of those games are WAY higher than they actually are.

    Of all those games, only League even has a large account base... and it DOESNT translate into a giant consistent player base. While they have 180 million accounts, most aren't active more than a few times a year. And a GIANT number of those accounts dont play against other people. (Per Riot's own numbers; over half the accounts just log in and play against Bots). Still, it is higher than average by a fair bit at about 25 million a month or so. But its the outlier that proves the rule.

    DotA is TINY comparatively. Its record monthly is about 900,000 (picks up around The International) and averages 400,000.

    CSGO barely breaks a million players monthly, and its RECORD for concurrent players is a little over 600,000 worldwide.

    Overwatch doesn't break 100,000 peak players on the average day, and less than half a million monthly, and rapidly falling (to the point where people sit in queues for 40+ minutes when trying to use matchmade games) because the response to OW2 has been pretty meh.

    Warzone 2 claims 25 million players - but this is actually registered accounts. Actual numbers are more like ~400,000 daily with about 250,000 concurrent, and about 2.5 million monthly (though its only been out a month, some of this is extrapolated from WZ1)


    PUBG is hard to track, but seems to hit a fairly high concurrent player number (about 600,000) but doesn't seem to really get a huge monthly number (~3 million or so) - if we're talking PC version. The mobile version changes up the numbers significantly and is extremely hard to track because the game is run by different companies in different regions and most of them dont report the numbers.

    Fortnite is seemingly quite impressive at 2.9 - 4 million people a day and about four times that monthly (up to 15 million some months) but a HUGE chunk of that is mobile. Also impressive is that about 2/3 of that number (up to 10 million) play the PvE version monthly. Edit: sorry, thats just the PC version. When taking into account ALL versions, its about 40 million/month unique players/accounts, and 10+ million daily.

    Apex Legends doesnt even belong on this list with a paltry 200,000 daily and less than a million monthly.

    Wow, that all seems great! Surely, SURELY that outpaces PvE games... right?

    ... yeahno.

    Minecraft alone outpaces ALL of those games combined at about 300 million players (online) monthly.

    And you're about to respond "yeah but there's PvP in Minecraft!" - sure, there can be. But it isn't that common. And it definitely is NOT the focus of the game. Its hard to say for absolute certain but most numbers you can find show that PvP centric servers/modpacks/etc make up less than 5% (mostly going on downloads of various packs and the like, imprecise to be sure, but even if it were 4x as many, thats still sub-20%).

    Then you get Dungeon Fighter Online and Roblox, both good for about 250 million monthly players each.

    Runescape hits about 100 million monthly.

    Warframe hits 10 million monthly.

    Etc.

    PvE-centric online games have orders of magnitude more players than PvP centric games. Thats always been the case, pretty much.

    PvE-centric MMOs account for another several tens of millions per month across the industry; there is likely SOME overlap, but not a ton - most people dont have time to dedicate to multiple MMOs.

    PvE-centric looter shooter types (Destiny 2, Division 2, etc) are a few million a month combined.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister K View Post
    Will PVP gear dominate in PVE? No. PVE gear should not be on-par or better than PVP gear in a PVP setting otherwise reverse should apply too. Additionally, as explained numerous times, getting a full 411 takes less than half a day.
    Not even sure why you're quoting me. I never argued that PvE gear should be better in PvP. Im 100% against that. Have been since Vanilla. Nor did i complain about the time it takes to get a full set of max PvP iLevel gear. I said it was fine, considering a cheap-as-fuck crafted PvP set gets you 398 (i thought 395, someone else posted the real number), which is about... 9% stats behind full 411.
    Last edited by Kagthul; 2022-12-13 at 06:34 AM.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Elder Millennial View Post
    I don't think so.

    I think the satisfaction comes from getting an "unfair" gear advantage that allows you to roflstomp the still undergeared "nabs".

    Most pvpers aren't in it for a fair fight 90% of the time.
    this really
    PvP in WoW is and always was a joke in terms of "fairnes" and new (or someone that just wants to join in PvP) player exp is just pure abuse. Not only they get shat on in terms of skill obv but also gear offering "veterans" a free pass on "fresh meat".
    Imagin wanting to start your CS:GO play but "veteran" players get to use wallhacks and aimbots with no consequences just because "they have put work/effort before".
    Who would want to play that sht?!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    I mean... i stopped pvp'ing when they removed templates.
    So, yes i am someone who wants a fair match, but i know that is not what the WoW community wants. They want to 1 shot as much as possible. So, i leave this toxic mode to them and pvp on games where i can have fun. Grinding gear in pvp is dumb. PvP is not an RPG. It's just a gate you have to endure until you can start having fun. It's not my thing.
    templates were sht and the only time WoW PvP was closest to "fair" gearwise was in WoD, ignoring serveral hours new char had to get shat on, in Legion not only your ilvl increased templated, but also you had to grind out/be lucky about legendaries and grind out a fk ton of AP for artifact traits.

    As for te topic: no.
    Never enjoyed being on "udndergeared" side, obviosly, just as "95+%" of other people that arent into sado-maso; but also never really enjoyed stomping lessergeared people, as these wins most of the time feel obviosly cheap and un-earned.
    Also, if i move my ilvl a bit, and someone else moves a bit, but ultimately we end up in the same place... what kind of "progression" is that really? Nevermind scaling shenenigans where certain classes start of great but as gear progresses they comparatively get weaker, or the otehr way around.
    PvE has more of natural grogression path where better gear lets you do harder content and thus get better gear.
    PvP just throws you right into muthic dungeon/raid in questing gear. ;] I mean PvP equivalent to that would be fighting against people with similar gear, but then again, what kind of progression is that aaand, I don't think that's exactly what PvPtryhards are looking forward. ;]
    Last edited by FAILoZOFF; 2022-12-14 at 03:08 AM.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Kagthul View Post
    .... lolwhut. You clearly have no idea what you're even talking about, and you seem to believe that the populations of a lot of those games are WAY higher than they actually are.

    Of all those games, only League even has a large account base... and it DOESNT translate into a giant consistent player base. While they have 180 million accounts, most aren't active more than a few times a year. And a GIANT number of those accounts dont play against other people. (Per Riot's own numbers; over half the accounts just log in and play against Bots). Still, it is higher than average by a fair bit at about 25 million a month or so. But its the outlier that proves the rule.

    DotA is TINY comparatively. Its record monthly is about 900,000 (picks up around The International) and averages 400,000.

    CSGO barely breaks a million players monthly, and its RECORD for concurrent players is a little over 600,000 worldwide.

    Overwatch doesn't break 100,000 peak players on the average day, and less than half a million monthly, and rapidly falling (to the point where people sit in queues for 40+ minutes when trying to use matchmade games) because the response to OW2 has been pretty meh.

    Warzone 2 claims 25 million players - but this is actually registered accounts. Actual numbers are more like ~400,000 daily with about 250,000 concurrent, and about 2.5 million monthly (though its only been out a month, some of this is extrapolated from WZ1)


    PUBG is hard to track, but seems to hit a fairly high concurrent player number (about 600,000) but doesn't seem to really get a huge monthly number (~3 million or so) - if we're talking PC version. The mobile version changes up the numbers significantly and is extremely hard to track because the game is run by different companies in different regions and most of them dont report the numbers.

    Fortnite is seemingly quite impressive at 2.9 - 4 million people a day and about four times that monthly (up to 15 million some months) but a HUGE chunk of that is mobile. Also impressive is that about 2/3 of that number (up to 10 million) play the PvE version monthly. Edit: sorry, thats just the PC version. When taking into account ALL versions, its about 40 million/month unique players/accounts, and 10+ million daily.

    Apex Legends doesnt even belong on this list with a paltry 200,000 daily and less than a million monthly.

    Wow, that all seems great! Surely, SURELY that outpaces PvE games... right?

    ... yeahno.

    Minecraft alone outpaces ALL of those games combined at about 300 million players (online) monthly.

    And you're about to respond "yeah but there's PvP in Minecraft!" - sure, there can be. But it isn't that common. And it definitely is NOT the focus of the game. Its hard to say for absolute certain but most numbers you can find show that PvP centric servers/modpacks/etc make up less than 5% (mostly going on downloads of various packs and the like, imprecise to be sure, but even if it were 4x as many, thats still sub-20%).

    Then you get Dungeon Fighter Online and Roblox, both good for about 250 million monthly players each.

    Runescape hits about 100 million monthly.

    Warframe hits 10 million monthly.

    Etc.

    PvE-centric online games have orders of magnitude more players than PvP centric games. Thats always been the case, pretty much.

    PvE-centric MMOs account for another several tens of millions per month across the industry; there is likely SOME overlap, but not a ton - most people dont have time to dedicate to multiple MMOs.

    PvE-centric looter shooter types (Destiny 2, Division 2, etc) are a few million a month combined.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Not even sure why you're quoting me. I never argued that PvE gear should be better in PvP. Im 100% against that. Have been since Vanilla. Nor did i complain about the time it takes to get a full set of max PvP iLevel gear. I said it was fine, considering a cheap-as-fuck crafted PvP set gets you 398 (i thought 395, someone else posted the real number), which is about... 9% stats behind full 411.
    You simply made up numbers without any proof lmao, what a delusion

  6. #46
    Not really

  7. #47
    LOoking forward to get more pvp

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