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  1. #221
    You shut your dirty mouth

    If YOU want to explore, there is NOTHING stopping YOU from using a ground mount to do so. Don't drag everyone else into this who doesn't give a shit.

    If you don't have the self discipline to not use your flying mount that is a personal problem.

  2. #222
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    I've found just the opposite. I've done more exploring now than I have since Cata.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Masternap View Post
    I really like the system itself, but I feel like it was a major mistake putting it at the start of the expansion. I'm flying through entire zones in a matter of seconds, basically just jumping around from quest marker to quest marker and ignoring the world itself. The feeling of exploring a new continent has completely vanished for me, as I'm not slowly uncovering the map and finding interesting places anymore. I'm dashing from one place to the next at breakneck speed, not caring what is in between them at all.

    The system also makes the new areas feel small as hell. I've already seen the entire expansion in like 20 minutes by collecting the glyphs. And now I can just go from one end to the other in 2 minutes. There's zero sense of scale. It almost feels like playing a few small new patch zones.

    The gameplay itself feels amazing, but I would've prefered just having ground mounts and then getting dragonriding for each zone at the end. They barely feel like actual zones to me, as it's like I'm teleporting around and skipping everything instead of actually exploring.
    So don't use Dragonriding then? Just like the fuck-tardos that complained about flying mounts, don't use them.

  4. #224
    Yeah thinking about it I explore more this expansion than any previous one I remember save maybe Legion (and even that was mostly just in Suramar since I loved the zone). The fact that most of the continent rewards either gear or rep that goes towards cool cosmetics helps but the simple fact getting somewhere is actually fun, for the first time in WoW's history, definitely counts for something too. Plus the Isles are likely the most beautiful continent we've had since Draenor at least, if not Pandaria.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

    The internet: where to every action is opposed an unequal overreaction.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Archy View Post
    So you just ignored the part about the different game enignes, huh? Also it's still a *company*. They have to allocate their time and ressources. Putting a lot of effort in a part of the game that isn't its strength, might not be a good decision. In addition to that, there are always problems with housing. It's not a "no brainer" feature.
    There are examples of player housing in WoW's engine up on youtube (can't link for obvious reasons because the mods get pissy). It's not that the engine is incapable. It's that Blizzard stubbornly refuse to give their playerbase what they want.

  6. #226
    Ooooh boy... why don't you guys play a single player game? You know, one of the good ones, with insanely big maps, no repetitive content, no players with weird names to intrude on your fun, where IMMERSION is actually a thing. You have the option to walk instead if you if you want to but somehow, noooo, you have this burning need to ask that blizz forces you into "immersion"....

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    If you don't care what's in between, you don't care about exploration - why complain then that you don't get to explore?
    If you care about exploration, just use ground mount, with the exception of places which can be only reached with flying.
    First post best post
    If you really care about exploration then it shouldn't fall onto the developers to restrict you into exploring the continent.

    They even give you the means to explore it immediately and the rewards come down the line

    Obtaining all the glyphs was a taste, a glimpse of what each zone had to offer but the questing give you the chance to really take it in and feel the importance of each area
    Unf - Night Watch - Pagle

    Consider the ocean waves, and how the moon's force guides them this way and that across the earth's surface. Human life is an insane coincidence. We are an instance of the universe becoming conscious of itself, yes, old news but always worth review.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormwolf64 View Post
    Don't listen to the people here. They simply just don't care about exploration and have been whining about the lack of flying since forever and will use mean words to demean you by. They're worthless.
    If he wants to explore by ground mount there is absolutely nothing stopping him. The reason people are "demeaning" is because he is trying to take flying away from everyone because he doesn't have the self discipline to not use it. Its called being spiteful.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by HatsHatsHats View Post
    First post best post
    If you really care about exploration then it shouldn't fall onto the developers to restrict you into exploring the continent.

    They even give you the means to explore it immediately and the rewards come down the line

    Obtaining all the glyphs was a taste, a glimpse of what each zone had to offer but the questing give you the chance to really take it in and feel the importance of each area
    In fact, theres plenty of quests, features(like rock climbing), proffessions++ that makes you want to go out in the world and look whats going on. So far, i've often times just jumped on my dragon and checked places out. Its quite fun. Think dragonriding enhances the experience.

  10. #230

    Lightbulb

    It's really funny how many of the people in this thread attacking the OP's self-control for wanting different level design also spew vitriol and profanity in the same breath. Remember to be charitable when trying to understand someone else's point of view, otherwise why are we here?

    The fact is that when Dragonriding or swim flying exist, the levels must be designed with that in mind, or the challenges and rewards become trivial. Before flying, zones were sprawling but two-dimensional, where obstacles could not be easily skipped. With swim flying, the maps became progressively more three-dimensional, where the ability to skip obstacles and find things was gated behind flying. In TBC, non-epic flying was slower than epic ground mounts to balance this. Each zone was designed with both grounded (2D) and flying (3D) players in mind, and present different challenges and rewards. Nagrand, Sholazar, and Storm Peaks come to mind. This design philosophy culminated in the Pathfinder expansions. Cold Weather Flying and the like gated the ability to navigate in 3D behind a level cap. With skillful use of abilities like Slow Fall, Levitate, and gliders, players could gain limited early access to 3D navigation. Many players find depth in having this dual level design in each zone.

    Being able to skip obstacles right at the start certainly affects the level design. If every player has 3D navigation, the devs don't have to worry about how 2D navigation will feel. It streamlines their work and creates the illusion of space because everything is so far apart compared to the Pathfinder expansions where we had to 2D navigate for most of the patch cycle. Telling the OP to not use their Dragonflying in Dragonflight is like telling them to RP walk in M+. It would add artificial difficulty, but the game simply isn't designed with that in mind, and it probably isn't fun. That isn't the same as having dual level design in each zone, which I believe is what OP is noticing the lack of in Dragonflight.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by TENTACLELUVR View Post
    It's really funny how many of the people in this thread attacking the OP's self-control for wanting different level design also spew vitriol and profanity in the same breath. Remember to be charitable when trying to understand someone else's point of view, otherwise why are we here?

    The fact is that when Dragonriding or swim flying exist, the levels must be designed with that in mind, or the challenges and rewards become trivial. Before flying, zones were sprawling but two-dimensional, where obstacles could not be easily skipped. With swim flying, the maps became progressively more three-dimensional, where the ability to skip obstacles and find things was gated behind flying. In TBC, non-epic flying was slower than epic ground mounts to balance this. Each zone was designed with both grounded (2D) and flying (3D) players in mind, and present different challenges and rewards. Nagrand, Sholazar, and Storm Peaks come to mind. This design philosophy culminated in the Pathfinder expansions. Cold Weather Flying and the like gated the ability to navigate in 3D behind a level cap. With skillful use of abilities like Slow Fall, Levitate, and gliders, players could gain limited early access to 3D navigation. Many players find depth in having this dual level design in each zone.

    Being able to skip obstacles right at the start certainly affects the level design. If every player has 3D navigation, the devs don't have to worry about how 2D navigation will feel. It streamlines their work and creates the illusion of space because everything is so far apart compared to the Pathfinder expansions where we had to 2D navigate for most of the patch cycle. Telling the OP to not use their Dragonflying in Dragonflight is like telling them to RP walk in M+. It would add artificial difficulty, but the game simply isn't designed with that in mind, and it probably isn't fun. That isn't the same as having dual level design in each zone, which I believe is what OP is noticing the lack of in Dragonflight.
    We've had enough expansions in a row that all forced ground travel. Get over having one flying expansion ever in the last 10 years.

  12. #232
    The thing is you don't "have" to fly super fast by everything. I rarely go full speed unless I'm specifically going for a target. I just coast along and grab mineral nodes as I go. So I'm sorry, but Dragonriding isn't destroying anything. You choosing to fly and full speed is on you!! My god its right up there with the whole "blizzard is forcing me to ..... "!

  13. #233
    On one hand yes, dragonriding has "destroyed" the old style of exploration where you search for paths to places and ways to avoid or deal with obstacles. Saying just don't use flying mounts was always an asinine idea but it's utterly stupid when zones are designed with huge distances and often there aren't pathways that allow you to run or ride to a destination.

    On the other hand they at least replaced the traditional ground-based content with something interesting. Dragonriding mechanics are infinitely more fun than old flying and it doesn't allow you to easily bunny hop between mobs and items for quests. I'm not really in love with it, too often I find myself either waiting around for vigour to recharge or deciding it isn't worth sacrificing my height and speed just to pick up a mineral node, but at least it introduces some new gameplay instead of just getting rid of the old.

  14. #234
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    How that I finished getting all the dragonriding glyphs, I really hope it becomes a standard feature of expansions going forward.
    I'm a crazy taco.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Drudi View Post
    No.

    When game is built and designed in a way that stimulates certain type of behavior - it’s a game-problem. Such as:

    - pushing LFR/LFD instead of people interaction and communication
    - shifting gold sinks towards “highly desired” and “nearly mandatory”, thus making it almost mandatory to buy gold with real money
    - “balancing” skills and abilities around pvp (in a game that is all about pve)

    - - - Updated - - -



    Literally nothing stops you from using grey-quality gear in dungeons and raids instead of epics.

    Are you doing this? Why not? Is it also a you-problem?
    Ilvl still exists. That pretty effectively stops you from not gearing to do those activities.

  16. #236
    I'll be the first to admit I don't like flying and think it was a mistake for them to add it to the game in the first place, but in this case it's absolutely a you problem if it's about exploration. I've been mostly running on foot on my dragon if I'm in areas I haven't been before, and only when I'm going over already explored areas or trying to get to something I otherwise can't reach do I actually fly. Just because you can fly doesn't mean you have to if you don't want to unless you're in war mode or something where it would be foolish not to, which is why I don't like flying personally since it's a massive advantage and deterrent for ganking.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    As a druid main with herbalism I can think of 1 way normal flying is better.
    That is easily remedied by speccing 40 knowledge points into botany as it allows you to gather herbs without dismounting.
    Then you can zip around the place, land pick up the herb, lift off repeat.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Alcsaar View Post
    If he wants to explore by ground mount there is absolutely nothing stopping him. The reason people are "demeaning" is because he is trying to take flying away from everyone because he doesn't have the self discipline to not use it. Its called being spiteful.
    This logic is just self serving. Dont be dicks regardless

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormwolf64 View Post
    This logic is just self serving. Dont be dicks regardless
    I mean, we can also say he is just outright wrong and we are just as immersed, if not more with the dragon mounts. It's easier than ever to explore every nook and cranny and fits with the theme. So, what is the advantage of going back to ground mounts?

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Masternap View Post
    I really like the system itself, but I feel like it was a major mistake putting it at the start of the expansion. I'm flying through entire zones in a matter of seconds, basically just jumping around from quest marker to quest marker and ignoring the world itself. The feeling of exploring a new continent has completely vanished for me, as I'm not slowly uncovering the map and finding interesting places anymore. I'm dashing from one place to the next at breakneck speed, not caring what is in between them at all.

    The system also makes the new areas feel small as hell. I've already seen the entire expansion in like 20 minutes by collecting the glyphs. And now I can just go from one end to the other in 2 minutes. There's zero sense of scale. It almost feels like playing a few small new patch zones.

    The gameplay itself feels amazing, but I would've prefered just having ground mounts and then getting dragonriding for each zone at the end. They barely feel like actual zones to me, as it's like I'm teleporting around and skipping everything instead of actually exploring.
    Dragonflying isn't destroying exploration. We've had flying relatively early on in previous expansions. This is nothing new

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