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  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    How can you call Mission Tables pointless?! Don't you know how much gold those made you back in WoD!? Madness, I say! MADNESS! I've said it like a dozen times on these forums, but the Tier 3 Garrisons with the maxxed out Inn and Gold-trait followers made me enough gold to pay for about a year and a half of sub-time. WoW is definitely more enjoyable when it's free. I'm pretty sure I used that gold to buy tokens and purchase Legion too. Good times...
    You mean the mission table I always heard that "I only do them with 10 characters and it's easy money"? I don't even know how you were supposed to get the resources to do tables with multiples characters without using hours and hours of game time on that alone, not to mention having multiple characters leveled up and upgraded Garrisons. At which point would there be time to do something else in the game? Or was the point that WoD didn't have anything else?

  2. #382
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilpi View Post
    You mean the mission table I always heard that "I only do them with 10 characters and it's easy money"? I don't even know how you were supposed to get the resources to do tables with multiples characters without using hours and hours of game time on that alone, not to mention having multiple characters leveled up and upgraded Garrisons. At which point would there be time to do something else in the game? Or was the point that WoD didn't have anything else?
    Mission tables did not take much time at all, and typically you would have some followers getting you resources to turn it into a self-sustaining machine. The initial time investment to get the Garrisons to Tier 3 and have things up-to-snuff was definitely more involved, but typically it was like... five minutes per character per day once everything was running, at least in terms of farming gold.

  3. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by Bee76 View Post
    First of all, the systems were never a needed FOMO grind. It was a opportunity to develop your charpower and get rewarded for spending time in the game.
    I.E. Azerith amulett, my main got 101 lvl on it, my toons 85-87 without any grind, both were able to play endgame including mythic raids. But of course my main was stronger.

    Raids were overtuned, and thats nothing else than frustration timegating. Look how many guild were struggling with jailor HC in the last Tier ? A lot of guilds broke on stuggling through HC content in SL. Including my alliance guild.
    My main horde guild is able to clear mid-to end mythic raids, but that dont change the fact that some HC encounters were really overtuned and got nerfed by blizz xx times.
    the systems were a possibility to develop your char a little (!) in soloplay. Raids are nice content, but you are depending on your guild/team/raid team. And im not one of those players that change a guild to "enjoy" that content for 1 more bosskill.

    SL without any relevant solo content besides "go grind for cosmetics" and overtuned raids terminated my alliance guild, a guild that existed for many (!) years.
    And SL with its lack of relevant content reduced my horde guild down to 60% active players because "there is nothing to do besides raiding and hitting a wall" outside of cosmetics.

    Not because of the weird story, or the boring zones....nothing relevant to do. fill the GV raid your ID thats it, if you are not into cosmetics.

    And DF will hit the same problemand it will get boring soon.

    With WF/TF there was a little chance in every M+ to improve your char, with AP there was a little improvement for your char in every activity you did in the game. Now there is nothing left.

    And well world players are really kicked in the balls
    For most of wows lifetime, it never had a neverending grind feature (like AP) and it worked very good for the most part. But, the game has had shite grind features beyond just AP, theres also been grinds for legendaries, conduits and more. All these systems, that require your attention most days of the week, all year, every year, tiers the playerbase out. I can understand the sentiment "progress my character" beyond gearing, but its a unhealthy approach within a MMORPG that aint nowhere near the "end".

    Its much, much better to create a endgame were you are free to move around in the endgame sphere. do pvp, dungeons, raids, world content, proffs. Whatever you wish. There aint a shit grind that gotta have your attention. In previous xpacs you had to spend time to grind AP etc because if you didnt, you were fucked. So, unless you had ALOT of hours to play, you had to spend the limited time grinding a currency so you were ready for the content you wanted.

    Now? Reach 70. Play the content you want. There aint a grind blocking you.

    Guilds breaking down happens all the time. Its nothing new. No idea what thats supposed to mean here. The best guild i've ever been in died during WotLK, the most successfull era of wow. So its nothing but a personal analogy. Then again, SL was shit and not a whole lot played it. BUt lets not pretend SL didnt have certain grinds that were required before you were even close to relevant for m+, raids & proper pvp.

    Overtuned raid is also bit on the side here, but I generally agree. Normal & HC is to difficult, especially normal shouldnt be tuned the way it has been tuned. In fact, if the raids overall were easier, they would naturally be much more pug friendly. As such, I think more players would approach raiding. Those that doesnt have a raid team, those that does but want to pug raid with alts outside of raid hours etc. I think easier raids above LFR, that have you invite people on your server, would be a big plus.

    How are world players kicked in the balls? The world is literally filled to the brim with stuff to do. AP werent for world players. That AP werent worth anything unless you entered pvp or pve content.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mavven View Post
    WoW now is honestly the most fun I've had in the beginning of an expansion since before Legion. I love all of the quest lines, random lore content, rare and treasure hunting, mythic +, professions, cosmetics. And the best part...95% of it is OPTIONAL. Play the game how you want and not feel the need to log on 4 hours a day or risk getting behind. I already have a well geared alt which I would've never had this early before. Dragonflight is a fantastic start to a new era - especially with the new content coming in 10.0.5.

    If you need a "carrot on a stick" to enjoy a game, you aren't really enjoying it imo. You're just chasing dopamine. If that's your thing, maybe mobile games are for you and not WoW.
    YES! Its so refreshing to log in at night and just pick what I want to do. I can go and do whatever, it doesnt negativly effect my character. Previously, I had to log in and do certain tasks before I could actually do what I wanted to do. It tierd me out and made me quit the game.

    Now I cant wait to log in.

    And your last point there about "carrot on a stick" - Fully agree. Someone just need that hit. Wow shouldnt be that game, it never was supposed to be. Theres plenty of other games out there were grinding your ass off 24/7 all year long for miniscule % increase in player power.

  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    This expansion is going to be WoD 2.0. When players realise there's nothing to do outside of raids/mythics except WQs and invasions they're going to get fed up fast and quit.
    That is what we all wanted, we like Raid logging and want to play the game 3-6 hours a week and move on to other games.

  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by Tentim View Post
    So many words spent in service to defend grinding. What a waste.
    The very second sentence is about how that whole grind served absolutely no purpose. So many words, and you couldn't be arsed to read even the first ten.

  6. #386
    Quote Originally Posted by Malkiah View Post
    IMO the complete lack of any sort of means of advancing your character within the game that isn't just chasing ilevel is a huge reason why the end game has gotten to feeling a bit stale over the years.
    This is a bit like saying Coca Cola has gotten stale over the years because it is just a drink and you can't chew it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    No thanks

    I didn't like feeling like I had a checklist of things to do without falling behind

    I like not having to do boring tasks to keep my alt able to raid above lfr

    The constant feeling of power regression is a big problem and I'm glad it's gone

    The new renown system is enough for the guys who play 24/7

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    AP grind
    Covenant system like soulbinds
    Legendaries you have to grind and rebuild every tier
    If you think there isn't a daily checklist in DF that you need to do to avoid falling behind, then you're just so casual and disconnected that you're unaware of game mechanics.

    Covenant systems like soulbinds are literally rolled into talents now. And you'll be grinding and recrafting your "special embellished" crafted items every tier. They even cost more than legendaries did.
    Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.

  7. #387
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malkiah View Post
    follow up question: why do you have little doubt in your mind as to that motivation?
    Because, ever since Legion, all the systems were designed in a way that requires one to play almost every day, if not every day, to remain competitive. Dragonflight is the first expansion to finally give us "time to breathe", to the point that World Quests resetting twice a week instead of every day.

    wow doesn't have microtransactions baked into the gameplay, nor advertised within the game,
    True. However, we do have microtransactions advertised in the launcher, which is required to open the game, AFAIK. So it's getting there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  8. #388
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    This is a bit like saying Coca Cola has gotten stale over the years because it is just a drink and you can't chew it.

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    If you think there isn't a daily checklist in DF that you need to do to avoid falling behind, then you're just so casual and disconnected that you're unaware of game mechanics.

    Covenant systems like soulbinds are literally rolled into talents now. And you'll be grinding and recrafting your "special embellished" crafted items every tier. They even cost more than legendaries did.
    What daily check list would that be...?

    Asking as a player who has ahead of the curve already... the only thing I can think of is crafting knowledge and that isnt needed to progress.

  9. #389
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    This is a bit like saying Coca Cola has gotten stale over the years because it is just a drink and you can't chew it.

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    If you think there isn't a daily checklist in DF that you need to do to avoid falling behind, then you're just so casual and disconnected that you're unaware of game mechanics.

    Covenant systems like soulbinds are literally rolled into talents now. And you'll be grinding and recrafting your "special embellished" crafted items every tier. They even cost more than legendaries did.
    Recrafting doesn't cost more than legendaries because it is just a fraction of the original materials

    Yes soul binds and covenant abilities are rolled into talents and if you can't see the difference between having it all once you cap vs having it time gated idk what to tell you

    As for a daily checklist the only daily thing is tuskar rep and super rares which once you get to a certain ilvl is meaningless

    The things you could no life since launch are
    Cobalt rep which I finished
    Obsidian farm for rep which is done and designed in a way to be finished after about 6 resets
    Renown which gives some gear above 380 after 20
    Super rares every day
    Storms which you only do for the weekly sigils

    Tell me though what mandatory grind I'm missing out on

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tentim View Post
    What daily check list would that be...?

    Asking as a player who has ahead of the curve already... the only thing I can think of is crafting knowledge and that isnt needed to progress.
    There's nothing
    He's just parroting other BS claims because freedom of choice is such a foreign concept and any criticism towards the systems of the past is bad because you need to constantly log on otherwise you aren't a real gamer and are just casual

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by Drakenoteeth View Post
    I dinged 70 and I checked out new content, some are familiar like from good ol' Legion days, some features improved or revamped, but overall they removed all the systems that made Legion/BFA/Shadowlands great, which at the end this expansion will suffer.


    Thoughts?
    Your opinions are valid. However, a majority of us are enjoying the heck out of the new systems. Overall, this expansion has the potential to be one of the very best put out there.

  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    Mission tables did not take much time at all, and typically you would have some followers getting you resources to turn it into a self-sustaining machine. The initial time investment to get the Garrisons to Tier 3 and have things up-to-snuff was definitely more involved, but typically it was like... five minutes per character per day once everything was running, at least in terms of farming gold.
    Someone forgot that you needed the trading post to gather followers with the best traits, that had a weekly cd?, and RNG followers with rng traits, otherwise it wasn't that lucrative. Or reroll their ability, which came in a later patch. And level them. And gear them. Sure, by the last patch it was easy, (still timegate) but from the start? Na-ah. On 10 chars? Like having 10 alts was the norm in WoD. It started to be more of a norm in Legion with the class hall achieves, mounts etc. And then how it caused an insane inflation in the game and in the economy is the other thing.
    Last edited by Lei; 2022-12-17 at 12:57 AM.

  12. #392
    Quote Originally Posted by Drakenoteeth View Post
    I dinged 70 and I checked out new content, some are familiar like from good ol' Legion days, some features improved or revamped, but overall they removed all the systems that made Legion/BFA/Shadowlands great, which at the end this expansion will suffer.


    Thoughts?
    If you want a long grind to work on i recommend getting all the things...

    if you dont want to do whats available in game then there are thousands of other games you can play and enjoy instead.

  13. #393
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilpi View Post
    You mean the mission table I always heard that "I only do them with 10 characters and it's easy money"? I don't even know how you were supposed to get the resources to do tables with multiples characters without using hours and hours of game time on that alone, not to mention having multiple characters leveled up and upgraded Garrisons. At which point would there be time to do something else in the game? Or was the point that WoD didn't have anything else?
    In WoD, you got enough resources from the table itself to run it. That was part of the problem, the most efficient way to get anything done in WoD was basically sitting around in your Garrison.

  14. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    Mission tables did not take much time at all, and typically you would have some followers getting you resources to turn it into a self-sustaining machine. The initial time investment to get the Garrisons to Tier 3 and have things up-to-snuff was definitely more involved, but typically it was like... five minutes per character per day once everything was running, at least in terms of farming gold.
    I have completely missed that kind of resource generation. Makes sense.

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