1. #20261
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    I'm fine with Classic+ discussion as notable hint dropper is building up to it, and there are some hints in the files. It's also future Warcraft speculation so it kind of fits this thread, though a separate megathread would be better.

    "Lol WoW is doing badly, cope" has no real relation to the thread.
    Honestly, I'd be here for a Classic+ that builds up to something big, even if it's WoW2.

    Like, it would be an incredibly fun way (and totally impractical way) to do it.

    Have Classic+ be presented as a timeline created by the Infinite Flight, and build up plot lines throughout both experiences that hint, but aren't mandatory, and then have a expansion for both retail and classic that largely mirror each other, just in the spirit of each mechanic type, ending in both timelines slamming into each other.

    But alas, fanfiction.

  2. #20262
    Honestly it's also annoying sifting through pages and pages of classic discussion when the thread is about 10.x and 11.0.

  3. #20263
    Bloodsail Admiral Foreign Exchange Ztudent's Avatar
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    I feel the whole Classic+ topic can be stopped from occurring for now until we are close to Blizzcon and the 1.15 thing has no answers then I feel the topic is fine to be discussed. (like a week prior)

    Right now it just feels like we have Retail vs Classic and its just kind of stupid and we're already seeing people showcasing their venom clearly on the subject matter to no benefit of the threads' main focus.
    I no longer reply to quotations beyond if you're asking a genuine question or have a non-confrontational stance.

    Nihil.


  4. #20264
    Quote Originally Posted by Magistrate View Post
    Honestly it's also annoying sifting through pages and pages of classic discussion when the thread is about 10.x and 11.0.
    Especially when there's like five people playing it

  5. #20265
    My first post on the forums! Yay!

    To bring it back to the topic... Seeing the recent updated assets, a form of revamp seems inevitable in 11.0. Even if its a 1 to 1 change in house and interior models, it'd be a start for something bigger, which we now know Ion and the team are aware of and will be working on... Well excited for Blizzcon.

  6. #20266
    RIP Page 1069: We shall always remember when the speculation thread was just "I think there will be a 11.0" versus "I think there won't."

  7. #20267
    Hot take: I'm fed up with Titan shaming.

    The Titans are the good guys. You want a free and primordial Azeroth? Well go and have fun, the Titans literally shaped the mountains, carved out the seas, and ensured life grew. Azeroth was a dump before they arrived. Pretty good analogy for the Roman Empire, actually, and the aqueducts of the Dragon Isles prove it.

  8. #20268
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Hot take: I'm fed up with Titan shaming.

    The Titans are the good guys. You want a free and primordial Azeroth? Well go and have fun, the Titans literally shaped the mountains, carved out the seas, and ensured life grew. Azeroth was a dump before they arrived. Pretty good analogy for the Roman Empire, actually, and the aqueducts of the Dragon Isles prove it.
    It's still colonization vs freedom. I don't think they are going for Titans Bad, but "Titans still controlling us/our future Bad" which makes more sense. Like Odyn and Tyrs influence/control of Dragons will be the big sticking point moving forward.

    We (good guys) don't want to time travel and kill the Titans to make Primal Azeroth, but we also want Free Dragons.

    All signs point towards a complete and total of emancipation of Azeroth from the Cosmic People (besides mayyyybe Elune) being the endgame.

  9. #20269
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    It's still colonization vs freedom. I don't think they are going for Titans Bad, but "Titans still controlling us/our future Bad" which makes more sense. Like Odyn and Tyrs influence/control of Dragons will be the big sticking point moving forward.

    We (good guys) don't want to time travel and kill the Titans to make Primal Azeroth, but we also want Free Dragons.

    All signs point towards a complete and total of emancipation of Azeroth from the Cosmic People (besides mayyyybe Elune) being the endgame.
    Freedom from being a living sacrifice to a giant eyeball

  10. #20270
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Hot take: I'm fed up with Titan shaming.

    The Titans are the good guys. You want a free and primordial Azeroth? Well go and have fun, the Titans literally shaped the mountains, carved out the seas, and ensured life grew. Azeroth was a dump before they arrived. Pretty good analogy for the Roman Empire, actually, and the aqueducts of the Dragon Isles prove it.
    You keep saying the Titans "made" Azeroth which isn't true at all. They didn't even find Azeroth until 150,000 years before the opening of the Dark Portal & the planet is much older than that. They didn't make mountains or anything, mainly from anything they actively created on Azeroth has a distinct anti-organic aesthetic. I guess it is like the Roman Empire because they also took credit for things they didn't do.

    As for the anti-titan sentimentality, the Dragonflight's perception is the most center-of-the-road: They did a bunch of unethical things, but they are the reason the planet wasn't destroyed by the Void or Legion, which is a good thing.
    Last edited by Ersula; 2023-09-27 at 05:51 PM.

  11. #20271
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    It's still colonization vs freedom. I don't think they are going for Titans Bad, but "Titans still controlling us/our future Bad" which makes more sense. Like Odyn and Tyrs influence/control of Dragons will be the big sticking point moving forward.

    We (good guys) don't want to time travel and kill the Titans to make Primal Azeroth, but we also want Free Dragons.

    All signs point towards a complete and total of emancipation of Azeroth from the Cosmic People (besides mayyyybe Elune) being the endgame.
    Why do we want free Dragons? The dragons, or the protodragons rather, were barely sentient beasts. Hulking lizards crawling out of volcanoes in the frozen north, tearing flesh from limb from the creatures they hunted. The noble dragons we're familiar with are arguably more Titan in nature than draconic, which says quite a lot.

    I don't know, man. Let's argue for a return to the days of Dark Trolls and Elementals, as well. Those guys were free!

  12. #20272
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Why do we want free Dragons? The dragons, or the protodragons rather, were barely sentient beasts. Hulking lizards crawling out of volcanoes in the frozen north, tearing flesh from limb from the creatures they hunted. The noble dragons we're familiar with are arguably more Titan in nature than draconic, which says quite a lot.

    I don't know, man. Let's argue for a return to the days of Dark Trolls and Elementals, as well. Those guys were free!
    Nope. We literally see a pre-titan empower proto-dragon Aspects in Legacies cinematics and Dawn of Infinite dungeon as fully sentient, intelligent and capable of for example speech and love.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2023-09-27 at 05:56 PM.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  13. #20273
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    You keep saying the Titans "made" Azeroth which isn't true at all. They didn't even find Azeroth until 150,000 years before the opening of the Dark Portal & the planet is much older than that. They didn't make mountains or anything. I guess it is like the Roman Empire because they also took credit for things they didn't do.

    As for the anti-titan sentimentality, the Dragonflight's perception is the most center-of-the-road: They did a bunch of unethical things, but they are the reason the planet wasn't destroyed by the Void or Legion, which is a good thing.
    Quite literally, in old lore titans and water giants with stone giants carved Azeroth, oceans and mountains. Shaping continents, places Well of Eternity at center, make mechanisms to ensure planet is safe and then go elsewhere. That was even before we know that Azeroth is titan in egg.
    But now we know from the books ingame that is Odyn propaganda, and there was something big and good before titans came. And more and more shitting into old lore. Lame, if you ask me.

  14. #20274
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    You keep saying the Titans "made" Azeroth which isn't true at all. They didn't even find Azeroth until 150,000 years before the opening of the Dark Portal & the planet is much older than that. They didn't make mountains or anything. I guess it is like the Roman Empire because they also took credit for things they didn't do.

    As for the anti-titan sentimentality, the Dragonflight's perception is the most center-of-the-road: They did a bunch of unethical things, but they are the reason the planet wasn't destroyed by the Void or Legion, which is a good thing.
    And Earth existed for billions of years before life grew. That doesn't mean Earth 3 billion years ago was all that exciting.

    As far as we know, the Titans are responsible for "shaping" Azeroth into a habitable world. They gave us technology, they blessed us with the Dragon Aspects, protected us from a number of horrific world-ending threats, created what would become Humans, Dwarves and Gnomes among other things, and they ensured the Old Gods weren't able to consume the world-soul during the height of the Black Empire.

  15. #20275
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Why do we want free Dragons? The dragons, or the protodragons rather, were barely sentient beasts. Hulking lizards crawling out of volcanoes in the frozen north, tearing flesh from limb from the creatures they hunted. The noble dragons we're familiar with are arguably more Titan in nature than draconic, which says quite a lot.

    I don't know, man. Let's argue for a return to the days of Dark Trolls and Elementals, as well. Those guys were free!
    Odyn, is that you?

  16. #20276
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Nope. We literally see a pre-titan empower proto-dragon Aspects in Legacies cinematics and Dawn of Infinite dungeon as fully sentient, intelligent and capable of for example speech and love.
    Nozdormu literally says that a "few" were more intelligent, whereas the protodragons in general were primitive beasts. An anomalous mutation you might say.

  17. #20277
    The Undying Teriz's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure that when Toweliee was talking about a revamp in classic, he was just talking about Cataclysm Classic, which was a revamp of WoW at the time. While inevitable, he did hint at Cataclysm classic before it was datamined.

    Which btw reinforces his earlier hints that there will be no revamp in retail, and the next expansion is underground.

  18. #20278
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Nozdormu literally says that a "few" were more intelligent, whereas the protodragons in general were primitive beasts. An anomalous mutation you might say.
    And would the intelligent races like the trolls be able to develop civilizations if elementals and proto dragons had not been reined in?

  19. #20279
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    And Earth existed for billions of years before life grew. That doesn't mean Earth 3 billion years ago was all that exciting.

    As far as we know, the Titans are responsible for "shaping" Azeroth into a habitable world. They gave us technology, they blessed us with the Dragon Aspects, protected us from a number of horrific world-ending threats, created what would become Humans, Dwarves and Gnomes among other things, and they ensured the Old Gods weren't able to consume the world-soul during the height of the Black Empire.
    True, but how much of that was intentional? None of it.

    The well of eternity was the result of trying to kill an old god. The curse of flesh is the only reason the people on Azeroth aren't automatons and the Titans had left by the time that started happening. Wanting the World Soul to become a Titan versus the Old Gods wanting it to become a Void Planet: What the planet has become is owed to both of them.

  20. #20280
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    And would the intelligent races like the trolls be able to develop civilizations if elementals and proto dragons had not been reined in?
    They become sentient because of the Well of Eternity, a Titan creation.

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