1. #20341
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Thrall is obviously going to work very well on any expansion set on Azeroth or Draenor. That goes without saying.You keep saying this but its a bit reductive: Undermine was included in early maps of Azeroth, along with other locations that still aren't represented in the game. They weren't "planned to be included in vanilla" the way dragon isles were, with it reaching the point where they actually started modeling the landmass. The Dragon Isles were actually off the coast of northern lordaeron, but they were never planning to include non EK/Kalimdor adjacent locations in vanilla.
    Actually in the case of Undermine, it was to be included, which is why it appeared in aspects of the final game, such as the CG globe at the end of vanilla’s cinematic. They just didn’t have the resources to complete it;

    Blizzard originally wanted to include Undermine in the original World of Warcraft along with goblins as a playable race, with Johnathan Staats describing it as "tinker town" and "crazy". However, as the team did not have a lot of goblin art assets, building the goblin homeland would have required "a ton" of work, leading to both Undermine and playable goblins being cut from classic WoW.[15]

    Note that the Undermine was already concepted in the early World of Warcraft beta not as a city on an island, but as a continent southeast of Kalimdor.
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Undermine

    It should also be noted that Undermine was mentioned throughout WoW lore and continues to be referenced even in Dragonflight. It was also mentioned by devs as a place they wanted Goblin players to see even after the events in Cataclysm.

    This is different than what occurred with Dragon Isles, because Blizzard never brought the Dragon Isles up in lore or conversation until the end of BFA.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    Thrall being on the Blizzcon art means nothing. We don't have a singular characters who is ultra-relevant right now (NPC who acts a main character), like Sylvanas, or Illidan. They are not gonna spoil the next expansion (and they've only done that once), and all the other key art characters are just random characters from the respective franchise even if they are not relevant in the moment.

    Thrall is the quintessential Warcraft character, plus Metzen is back.
    Gul’Dan —-> key art on Legion pre-announcement

    Jaina —-> key art in BFA pre-announcement

    Sylvanas —-> key art in Shadowlands pre-announcement

    Dragonflight was disrupted due to COVID.

    So based on precedent, Thrall is heavily related to the next expansion.

    I do feel that if it was void based, Alleria would be there instead of Thrall. In addition, we also have the Chinese predictor and Toweliee’s statements tying very well with an expansion linked strongly to Thrall.

  2. #20342
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Actually in the case of Undermine, it was to be included, which is why it appeared in aspects of the final game, such as the CG globe at the end of vanilla’s cinematic. They just didn’t have the resources to complete it;



    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Undermine

    It should also be noted that Undermine was mentioned throughout WoW lore and continues to be referenced even in Dragonflight. It was also mentioned by devs as a place they wanted Goblin players to see even after the events in Cataclysm.

    This is different than what occurred with Dragon Isles, because Blizzard never brought the Dragon Isles up in lore or conversation until the end of BFA.
    If we do get Undermine, it will be one of the last places cut from Classic which never made it into the game. Dragon Isles, Emerald Dream, Undermine...

  3. #20343
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Thrall works in a Underground/Undermine expansion as well.
    -Thrall is heavily tied to the elements of Azeroth which applies for the underground regions of the planet.
    -Thrall and Gazlowe go way back as allies and friends (Blizzard even had a point and click game featuring the two characters).
    -Thrall originally helped the Goblins join the Horde back in Cataclysm.

    Undermine was originally planned for vanilla WoW so I could see Blizzard making a big hoopla about finally being able to do a continent they wanted to do back in 2004, right in time for WoW's 20th anniversary.
    Or maybe it's just cuz thrall is the face of WoW and it's the 20th anni?

    And idk about Undermine for 11.0. if we're going to eventually get to tinkers then I'm sure UM will be a main point and I seriously doubt we're going to get tinkers in 11.0 on the exp after we got a new class.


    At earliest we get tinkers would probably be 12.0


    Or thrall might be involved heavily in the light v void war somehow.
    Last edited by Well Done Steak; 2023-09-24 at 04:03 PM.

  4. #20344
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Last few key arts were Sylvanas (SL reveal), Saurfang (BfA patches), Jaina (BfA reveal). And Jaina wasn't ultra relevant character either during Legion/before BfA.

    Keyart of course could mean nothing, but that would be breaking pattern from last few Blizzcons, not something usual.
    Sylvanas was relevant at that point in time and we knew she was gonna be relevant in the upcoming expansion.

    Saurfang was relevant at that point in time and we knew he was gonna be relevant in the upcoming patches.

    The only outlier is Jaina, because she was on the key art, and we knew nothing about the expansion that was about to be announced (I am not gonna count the Kul'tiras armour leak), but I wouldn't base a pattern around one occurence. 2016, we had Sylvanas as a keyart, and that was the Blizzcon where they've revealed 7.2, which had no Sylvanas whatsoever.

    This is one of the very few Blizzcons where we know NOTHING about the future expansion in terms of story direction. The last few expansions have all been sequels to the previous expansion, with them being direct follow-ups, and by the time the next expansion was announced, we already were in the last patch.
    Last edited by Makorus; 2023-09-24 at 04:17 PM.

  5. #20345
    Pandaren Monk Worldshaper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Well Done Steak View Post
    Or maybe it's just cuz thrall is the face of WoW and it's the 20th anni?

    And idk about Undermine for 11.0. if we're going to eventually get to tinkers then I'm sure UM will be a main point and I seriously doubt we're going to get tinkers in 11.0 on the exp after we got a new class.


    At earliest we get tinkers would probably be 12.0


    Or thrall might be involved heavily in the light v void war somehow.

    I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that it's going to be a Light v Void expansion.

    All evidence points to 11.0 being a "Void is the antagonist trying to take Azeroth's world-soul", but the faction protecting Azeroth from the Hour of Twilight has always been Order, not the Light (even if its for selfish reasons).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    Sylvanas was relevant at that point in time and we knew she was gonna be relevant in the upcoming expansion.

    Saurfang was relevant at that point in time and we knew he was gonna be relevant in the upcoming patches.

    The only outlier is Jaina, because she was on the key art, and we knew nothing about the expansion that was about to be announced (I am not gonna count the Kul'tiras armour leak), but I wouldn't base a pattern around one occurence. 2016, we had Sylvanas as a keyart, and that was the Blizzcon where they've revealed 7.2, which had no Sylvanas whatsoever.

    This is one of the very few Blizzcons where we know NOTHING about the future expansion in terms of story direction. The last few expansions have all been sequels to the previous expansion, with them being direct follow-ups, and by the time the next expansion was announced, we already were in the last patch.
    You're so wrong it physically hurts.

    If anything, this is the expansion we know the most about where things are headed, because not only does the lore explicitly tell us what's happening next, but we've also got a firmly established pattern from previous expansions by now.

    Since WoD, it goes tick-tock, with a major change of theme efter two expansions.

    Tick - an expansion that picks up from where an old expansion left off, like WoD did with TBC, and then builds towards the next expansion.

    Tock - the one following it to conclude that story in a major way, like Legion did for WoD.

    WoD -> Legion, then the story shifted.
    BfA -> Shadowlands, then the story shifted.
    Dragonflight -> 11.0, then the story shifts again.

    11.0 is 100% going to feel like the epic finale to the "Cataclysm" story, which means Void, Elementals, Dragons, Thrall, Titans, Keepers, and Azeroth. 100%.
    Last edited by Worldshaper; 2023-09-24 at 04:29 PM.

  6. #20346
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Well Done Steak View Post
    Or maybe it's just cuz thrall is the face of WoW and it's the 20th anni?

    And idk about Undermine for 11.0. if we're going to eventually get to tinkers then I'm sure UM will be a main point and I seriously doubt we're going to get tinkers in 11.0 on the exp after we got a new class.


    At earliest we get tinkers would probably be 12.0


    Or thrall might be involved heavily in the light v void war somehow.
    Thing is that Augvokers might have changed the typical new class schedule. Consider that currently we have Augvokers being the sole support spec in the game and being a disruptor of the meta. Blizzard might bring out a new class next expansion to add an alternative support spec to the meta, and that does open the door for Tinkers in 11.0.

    Of course, alternatively, Blizzard could also release 4th specs for certain classes that are support-based.

    I do think either way, Blizzard is going to do a 4th role for support in 11.0. I simply can’t see them trying to balance out support in the DPS role without eventually destroying it.

  7. #20347
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    Sylvanas was relevant at that point in time and we knew she was gonna be relevant in the upcoming expansion.

    Saurfang was relevant at that point in time and we knew he was gonna be relevant in the upcoming patches.

    The only outlier is Jaina, because she was on the key art, and we knew nothing about the expansion that was about to be announced (I am not gonna count the Kul'tiras armour leak), but I wouldn't base a pattern around one occurence. 2016, we had Sylvanas as a keyart, and that was the Blizzcon where they've revealed 7.2, which had no Sylvanas whatsoever.

    This is one of the very few Blizzcons where we know NOTHING about the future expansion in terms of story direction. The last few expansions have all been sequels to the previous expansion, with them being direct follow-ups, and by the time the next expansion was announced, we already were in the last patch.
    We didn’t know Sylvanas would be relevant for sure. Shadowlands was just one expansion concept thrown around. In fact, Dragon Isles was the more prevalent prediction because of all the dragon foreshadowing throughout BfA such as the Aspects having a large role in regards to powering up the Heart of Azeroth with essences, the various hints at the Black flight and the Twilight dragons in dragon expeditions, as well as the fact that Wrathion was off searching for the Dragon Isles. The most popular Shadowlands leak that was getting all of the traction and discussion going was the one Pyromancer and Asmongold were championing wit the concept map that “leaked” and that seemed like it was going to be an Old God expansion instead with N’Zoth taking over the Shadowlands.

    That said, I agree in regards to Thrall. He is the poster child for Warcraft and it’s more likely he is on the key art for that as well as that Metzen is returning. He would still fit in for pretty much any expansion though as a major character so it could work both ways.
    Last edited by Santandame; 2023-09-24 at 04:49 PM.

  8. #20348
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Thing is that Augvokers might have changed the typical new class schedule. Consider that currently we have Augvokers being the sole support spec in the game and being a disruptor of the meta. Blizzard might bring out a new class next expansion to add an alternative support spec to the meta, and that does open the door for Tinkers in 11.0.

    Of course, alternatively, Blizzard could also release 4th specs for certain classes that are support-based.

    I do think either way, Blizzard is going to do a 4th role for support in 11.0. I simply can’t see them trying to balance out support in the DPS role without eventually destroying it.
    Perhaps, but there's a difference between releasing a new spec and an entirely new class.

    But yeah, blizz has a habit of introducing new precedences so who knows?

  9. #20349
    On the next episode of MMO-C! X says that underground expansion is happening. Y says that Void vs. Light is happening. X says that underground is happening. Stay tuned for more!

  10. #20350
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that it's going to be a Light v Void expansion.

    All evidence points to 11.0 being a "Void is the antagonist trying to take Azeroth's world-soul", but the faction protecting Azeroth from the Hour of Twilight has always been Order, not the Light (even if its for selfish reasons).

    - - - Updated - - -


    .
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Melinor

    That's why.

    Don't think the light as an antagonist can hold an expansion on its own. Same with void imo but it'd be easier to pull off if need to.

    We have plenty of set up for cosmic light baddies between Xera and Illidam, revendreth, and Yrel and the lightbound. Oh and the fact that turalyon sits on the alliance throne and most likely won't give it up back to anduin, especially with the SW Nobles breathing down his neck

  11. #20351
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catastrophy349 View Post
    On the next episode of MMO-C! X says that underground expansion is happening. Y says that Void vs. Light is happening. X says that underground is happening. Stay tuned for more!
    And you keep saying "OH EM GEEE WHO IS HYPED I'M HYPED ARE YOU HYPED????".

    Everyone has something.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  12. #20352
    Quote Originally Posted by Catastrophy349 View Post
    On the next episode of MMO-C! X says that underground expansion is happening. Y says that Void vs. Light is happening. X says that underground is happening. Stay tuned for more!
    For this reason BlizzCon can't come quick enough so we can get back to more varied discussions
    Quote Originally Posted by Greyscale View Post
    But then again, in the story, we're pretty brutal murder machines and not really "strategical assets". Just send us in and we'll murder everything in our way!
    So I guess the solution here is simple - we'll murder everyone.

  13. #20353
    Quote Originally Posted by Mysticdoll View Post
    this leak posted August 27th fits a lot of what we have been seeing the past few days/weeks

    ka'resh -from the scale face leak

    undermine from the toweliee cave stuff

    underwater zone with naga- we got the naga backpack and hints of a Azshara return in-game

    traveling by boat- we have all the new boat models

    thrall having a campaign - he's the key art for Blizzcon

    I didn't really think anything of this leak but it seems like it could be piecing together. I guess we will see if the trademark comes soon as said by the exdev Twitter account, it's also interesting that the exdev account posted all their stuff in late August as well.
    The OP of that leak being called BananaCrates is very funny to me and probably a few of the old regulars.

  14. #20354
    Pandaren Monk Worldshaper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Well Done Steak View Post
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Melinor

    That's why.

    Don't think the light as an antagonist can hold an expansion on its own. Same with void imo but it'd be easier to pull off if need to.

    We have plenty of set up for cosmic light baddies between Xera and Illidam, revendreth, and Yrel and the lightbound. Oh and the fact that turalyon sits on the alliance throne and most likely won't give it up back to anduin, especially with the SW Nobles breathing down his neck
    See, what you're doing here is essentially taking a breadcrumb for possible future stories, and trying to sell it as a loaf of bread to the rest of us. Let me guess, it's the expansion you've always dreamed of?

    "A Song of the Depths" is quite literally spelling out to you that the Harbinger and Queen Azshara are coming right around the corner, while the rest of the story, from the Tyr quests to everything we're doing to empower the Dragon Aspects, tells us that Order is the primary force to oppose the Void in this particular story.

    Light v Void is on the meta side of things. Cosmologically, they are each other's opposites.

    But within the context of the Void and Old Gods on Azeroth, Order has always been its biggest enemy.

  15. #20355
    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    We didn’t know Sylvanas would be relevant for sure. Shadowlands was just one expansion concept thrown around. In fact, Dragon Isles was the more prevalent prediction because of all the dragon foreshadowing throughout BfA such as the Aspects having a large role in regards to powering up the Heart of Azeroth with essences, the various hints at the Black flight and the Twilight dragons in dragon expeditions, as well as the fact that Wrathion was off searching for the Dragon Isles. The most popular Shadowlands leak that was getting all of the traction and discussion going was the one Pyromancer and Asmongold were championing wit the concept map that “leaked” and that seemed like it was going to be an Old God expansion instead with N’Zoth taking over the Shadowlands.

    That said, I agree in regards to Thrall. He is the poster child for Warcraft and it’s more likely he is on the key art for that as well as that Metzen is returning. He would still fit in for pretty much any expansion though as a major character so it could work both ways.
    Sylvanas kills a main character using her new edgy powers, cackles maniacally, and disappears into a literal puff of smoke. Loyalists get extra dialogue essentially saying "Hahaha, soon they will see my truuueee master!"

    People going for a "Oh, N'zoth will survive!" next expansion were missing the forest for the trees. Pyromancer especially is great at that.

    We didn't necessarily know that it was gonna be Shadowlands, but we DID know for pretty much certain that Sylvanas was gonna be relevant. Just like we knew Gul'dan was gonna be relevant in the expansion after WoD.

  16. #20356
    Quote Originally Posted by Terremer View Post
    i don't know why you're talking about the relevance of the characters depicted on the posters
    i mean, it has nothing to do with the fact that they're important or very involved in the extension in question
    they're there to represent the theme of the expansion
    My point was just that Thrall is the poster child for Warcraft, which he is. So we shouldn’t be looking into it too much. Plus, Metzen is coming back after years and him and Thrall tend to come as a package. But yeah, he would also fit pretty much any expansion that threatens Azeroth considering his role as the world shaman and the de facto main character of the game.

    But what you said isn’t exactly true because every character on the key art for that Blizzcon had been a major character at the time of that expansion.

    Gul’dan - WoD and Legion.
    Illidan - Legiob
    Jaina - BfA
    Saurfang - BfA
    Sylvanas - BfA and Shadowlands
    Alexstrasza - Dragonflight

    They were all literally major players with major storylines in those expansions so I’m not really sure what point you’re trying to make.
    Last edited by Santandame; 2023-09-24 at 05:16 PM.

  17. #20357
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    See, what you're doing here is essentially taking a breadcrumb for possible future stories, and trying to sell it as a loaf of bread to the rest of us. Let me guess, it's the expansion you've always dreamed of?

    "A Song of the Depths" is quite literally spelling out to you that the Harbinger and Queen Azshara are coming right around the corner, while the rest of the story, from the Tyr quests to everything we're doing to empower the Dragon Aspects, tells us that Order is the primary force to oppose the Void in this particular story.

    Light v Void is on the meta side of things. Cosmologically, they are each other's opposites.

    But within the context of the Void and Old Gods on Azeroth, Order has always been its biggest enemy.
    The void is coming before any titans come, as per iridikron in dawn of the infinite.

    Azshara is part of team void so I fully expect her to show up.


    With all the time stuff that happened in DF it's a perfect set up for Yrel to be dragged into our timeline to further shakes things up.

    And again, the light most likely won't be the singular villain in an exp

  18. #20358
    Quote Originally Posted by Marlamin View Post
    The OP of that leak being called BananaCrates is very funny to me and probably a few of the old regulars.
    Touché! I was about to say, that leak does sound like it's compiling everything we've been discussing here, even the topics that barely lasted more than 2-3 pages.

  19. #20359
    Bloodsail Admiral Darkarath's Avatar
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    I think that if we take into account Ion's recent declarations about the WoW team not wanting to do an Old God focused expansion or an Emerald Dream focused expansion, because the settings would not be different enough, there is little chance of getting a full Void expansion or a full Underground expansion.

    IMO, it is perfectly possible to do an expansion focused on any of these themes, but Blizzard disagrees.

    So I would say, 11.0 will NOT be full Void, and 11.0 will NOT be full Underground.

    Now if they make a partial or full revamp, they can include any theme that they want, and from time to time, an underground zone, which seems like the most reasonable approach.

    I am curious, how would you feel if Blizzard's aim is to revamp all the world through several expansions? Including all the continents, except Outland, Draenor and the Shadowlands. They can give us a cosmic patch from time to time, a new Azeroth continent... but the focus would always be in Azeroth, making (in due time) every continent evergreen, with the Dragon Isles as the start of this new world.
    Last edited by Darkarath; 2023-09-24 at 05:30 PM.
    Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.


  20. #20360
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarath View Post
    I am curious, how would you feel if Blizzard's aim is to revamp all the world through several expansions? Including all the continents, except Outland, Draenor and the Shadowlands. They can give us a cosmic patch from time to time, a new Azeroth continent... but the focus would always be in Azeroth, making (in due time) every continent evergreen, with the Dragon Isles as the start of this new world.
    Unless they're remaking them from scratch, that sounds like a really unexciting six+ years.

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