1. #24401
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Radical: Mists of Pandaria. Legion. Shadowlands. 11.0

    And BC & WotLK just don't count because that was before they established a philosophy with expansions.
    Considering 11.0's first thing datamined is a dwarf kingdom and what is very likely a gryphon, I don't think it's going to be too radical.

    Also an area named after Arthurian Legend that may very well be Lordaeron 2.

  2. #24402
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murlocos View Post

    I think Dragonflight's issues are less to do with the breadth of the lore it's covering and more that the actual quality of the writing isn't very removed from Shadowlands or BfA.
    Absolutely. But I personally still believe tthat a lot of these isolated stories could have carried their own expansions. And I'm salty that will not happen.

  3. #24403
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    Which is exactly what I said could happen with K’aresh.
    It could be a starting zone, and/or it could be patch content.
    But you’re the one saying “oh no that’s cosmic”.
    Except going to Argus is directly related to the Burning Legion invasion. Ka’resh has nothing to do with a lost continent west of Kalimdor.

  4. #24404
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Oddly enough, that is something we can agree on.
    But you know, with Emerald Dream, Naz'jatar and Ny'alotha thrown away as patch content, there isn't really any particular setting I want to have. Save for maybe a full on Black Empire expansion.
    Sounds like a very bleak setting. And has the exact issue I point to for setting like these.
    If you have to start the explanation of the setting with "But don't worry, [core defining feature of setting] isnt an issue, because that's only some areas". I immediately check out.
    Don't go into full underground if you have to justfy it by saying it won't look like a cave at all. Don't go to Argus if you have to justify how some areas are not actually destroyed by the Legion. Don't go to the Shadowlands if you have to explain how it looks nothing like what we have been led to believe, and indeed has several perfectly nice zones as well as the awful and miserable ones.

    For ideas like those you go there in a patch or two. You take all the best ideas and use them so that in the end you have a cohesive area that fully feels like what you would expect. Argus to me feels far more like what I would have expected it to be, simply because they could really go all in on showing it as a fel-blasted hellscape with life barely clinging on. Eredath floating in orbit was definitely a bit different, but also wouldnt have been enough to justify a full expansion. Just like how Bastion didnt justify spending all expansion in the Shadowlands.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  5. #24405
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    Honestly, I do think that K'aresh would be an interesting spot for an expansion. It would be a unique environment but not wholly detached from prior precedent like Shadowlands was. Similarly, it connects to preexisting lore in a more tangible way and we know roughly what to expect and how a victory for the Void bodes for Azeroth.
    It would also probably just work out fine as patch content imo. Depends what they want with it. The world could be mostly deatroyed, but would still have one or two domes with survivors that we need to help escape for example.

    Lots of options are possible, yes it could also be a full blown planet, but idk I am feeling more argus vibes with this.

  6. #24406
    Quote Originally Posted by Krukus View Post
    Except that's where the future is. The worlds may be different. Such Nathreza would be a planet 100% overrun by Dreadlords, so we would have pure horror, not half-hearted as in Shadowlands. K'aresh is the atmosphere of the Void combined with Middle Eastern culture. It can be made interesting.
    It could be. But you could also have an expansion that slowly builds up to K'aresh. Lets us get to really know the Ethereals and their struggle. And then once we go through that portal or whatever, we can have a zone that truly embodies everything we have come to expect from a planet destroyed by a Void Lord.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  7. #24407
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    It would also probably just work out fine as patch content imo. Depends what they want with it. The world could be mostly deatroyed, but would still have one or two domes with survivors that we need to help escape for example.
    It would be cool if the starting zone for Ethereals was similar to Goblins where they need to get the hell out of the planet, but they use cool ecodomes as the zones before they head out.

  8. #24408
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    I am tired of the discourse over the word Cosmic. TBC was literally about demon aliens from green mars, and it gets a pass. Legion gave them spaceships and it is beloved. Shadowlands was hated.

    Why? Because Shadowlands was about the SHADOWLANDS/FIRST ONES and not about Azeroth (the World of Warcraft) or people from it. TBC used the space setting as a cool setting for stories about Warcraft characters, so it worked better. Meanwhile Shadowlands is mostly about OC characters and settings even if they tried to tie it to Azeroth through ambiguous ties and aesthetics.

    But Shadowlands was too disconnected and huffing its own farts. That's why it flopped with players. They forgot about Azeroth.

    Please stop with the Cosmic Bad shit, you can do a good expansion in space/with magic, it just can't be done like Shadowlands.
    I started writing a post but thankfully refreshed, this is more or less my thoughts. I think people are too caught up on the setting alone and not that Shadowlands failed to feel connected to the existing lore. Like "For the Shadowlands!" is a funny line from a character that does nothing, but it also reminds you how comically disconnected the whole thing was.

  9. #24409
    Bloodsail Admiral Foreign Exchange Ztudent's Avatar
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    I just think the Narrative Team is kind of tanking the franchise right now dragging everyone kicking and screaming because they have the power and the suits who control them have just not cared to pop into the Narrative Team offices in a while.

    Look, I'd love to take everything Steve Danuser is doing seriously but I feel like with the way things are going he is not going to be relevant much longer and the fact of the matter is that there is no pleasantries to discuss this type of lore as seen with the status quo of this thread.

    I just find it kind of baffling that we've gotten to the point where fanon is now represented as canon to a degree where it is causing dismal schisms that are extremely unfun to be a part of.

    I am honestly baffled at this point, lmao. At least, as long as I am RIGHT and I can be smug about it without having to get into these long winded 50 page arguments with insane people. Straitjacket Mental asylum style stuck within your own thoughts is the winning formula for Warcraft lore fans at this point. What's the point of discussing when it turns into this mess.
    Last edited by Foreign Exchange Ztudent; 2023-10-04 at 03:31 PM.
    I no longer reply to quotations beyond if you're asking a genuine question or have a non-confrontational stance.


  10. #24410
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    Considering 11.0's first thing datamined is a dwarf kingdom and what is very likely a gryphon, I don't think it's going to be too radical.
    Part of me thinks before 11.0 happens, Iridikron might succeed in his plan to kill the Titans. And that's what the expansion will be based on: A world without the titan's influence. And Avaloren is a place where they ditched the Titans & their ideas early on. Creating anti-titan-dwarves seems like their plan to ease us into the premise. That's pretty "radical" & "unfamiliar" when it comes to the motifs of Warcraft.

  11. #24411
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Well, it included Spaceships right from the beginning. Wheras WoD was mostly building settlements, which is a very classical Warcraft vibe. Despite it taking place on a literal alien planet.
    Draenor is however a very important location to core playable races. Both Draenei and Orcs have character they can meet there that would fit perfectly.
    Going to K'aresh would maybe be somewhat linked to Velves?
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  12. #24412
    I actually think Shadowlands as a setting is really cool, they just absolutely shat up the story and having Sylvanas and Malganis be the only (still living) characters from Warcraft that really made a difference there was a massive mistake. Hiding the Nathrezim reveal was the dumbest thing they ever did and I'm baffled why they did it, they should've been front and center.

    Imagine if it was more like TBC, with a big Azeroth story going on and us going back to Northrend at the end to fuck up Zovaal. Or hell, Denny would've been a better final boss, considering the influence the Nathrezim have had over so much of Warcraft. (I wonder if that's where they are going with him, he and Azshara have Final Final Boss material written all over them)

  13. #24413
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    It would be cool if the starting zone for Ethereals was similar to Goblins where they need to get the hell out of the planet, but they use cool ecodomes as the zones before they head out.
    Yea exactly like that!

    Maybe they can create another dome on Azeroth just because it looks cool. I like their whole kit and architecture.

  14. #24414
    The Lightbringer Izalla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by milkmustache View Post
    There you go again, "That ship has sailed."

    You don't know that. A few pieces of datamining don't indicate everything we know.

    I think all of this would be so much easier for you if you stopped believing in absolutes for everything. You are always certain you have the correct idea for what the expansion is without ever even considering the nuance and layers that the stories will be told in. If you just remove the tunnel vision you can have productive discussions here.

    I'm not sitting here screaming at you that we're going to k'aresh and having this grand void crusade, but to immediately write it off because you don't want it is reductive and obnoxious to discussion.
    It's not worth replying to him anymore. We all know he is wrong to insist things like "we've already datamined 2 things and so we know what the entire expansion will be about", but he will never admit it, so it's really just not worth it to engage.
    give up dat booty
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendra View Post
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  15. #24415
    The Lightbringer Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    I am tired of the discourse over the word Cosmic. TBC was literally about demon aliens from green mars, and it gets a pass. Legion gave them spaceships and it is beloved. Shadowlands was hated.

    Why? Because Shadowlands was about the SHADOWLANDS/FIRST ONES and not about Azeroth (the World of Warcraft) or people from it. TBC used the space setting as a cool setting for stories about Warcraft characters and races, so it worked better. Meanwhile Shadowlands is mostly about OC characters (Jailer, Denathrius, Primus, First ONes) and settings even if they tried to tie it to Azeroth through ambiguous ties and aesthetics.

    But Shadowlands was too disconnected and huffing its own farts. That's why it flopped with players. They forgot about Azeroth.

    Please stop with the Cosmic Bad shit, you can do a good expansion in space/with magic, it just can't be done like Shadowlands. Hell, a good chunk of TBC was about Elves in a magic forest, and it was needed to balance the space stuff.
    This actually summarizes my thoughts pretty well.
    Cosmic stuff is inevitable, but it can definitely be done significantly better than SL because they have done it better in Legion for example.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Chen isn't a Monk
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    what exactly makes Dwarves an underground race?

  16. #24416
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Not really. Vanessa could have been that, but she decided to be a good girl instead. Sylvanas could have been many things, but instead ended up being stupid. Magatha is a diabolical woman, but definitely not seductive.
    Xal'atath could be the closest to what you want.
    Sylvanas wouldn't fit imo. She was a righteous character in WC3 and then became angry in TFT. Vanessa could've been that but it would also be kinda weird because she was only 16 in Cata iirc? I should really make a human and do the heritage quests btw, since I've heard she's a part of them. Pretty nice.

    Xal'atath is very interesting, but she could just be an avatar of an Old God.

  17. #24417
    11.0

    Earthbreakers

    Explore cavern zones under new old-world zones.

    Expansion starts in Silithus and you enter first zone near existing damaged earth.

    Strongholds (not d4). Endgame shared pve area. 3 available on launch. Alternative to m+ but no time. 5 players attack stronghold mobs and get loot and currency the stronghold commander. Take place in castles in old world (think a bigger Stonewatch) and phasing system for up to 3 parties together. Puzzles and a trapdoor in one.

    No new race but class modifications are coming that involve a rebuilt glyph system.

    Jump function on ground mounts different

    Enjoy

  18. #24418
    The Lightbringer Izalla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    Yea exactly like that!

    Maybe they can create another dome on Azeroth just because it looks cool. I like their whole kit and architecture.
    I bet if the draenei were added later in the game their starting experience would have played out like this too and would have started earlier. Like on the Exodar before it crashes, or on Outland just before boarding the Exodar.
    give up dat booty
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendra View Post
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  19. #24419
    The Lightbringer Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Except going to Argus is directly related to the Burning Legion invasion. Ka’resh has nothing to do with a lost continent west of Kalimdor.
    “Going to Argus has nothing to do with an Azshara expansion” -Teriz after the “eye of azshara” trademark is registered.

    We don’t know WHY we’re going to a lost continent west of Kalimdor.
    It must be pretty bad for us to want to sail/fly through storms that nobody except Nightsquall was able to do and return.

    A void invasion COULD be that driving force along with whatever macguffin blizzard has planned for that area.
    And by your logic, going to K’aresh would make as much sense in a void invasion expansion as going to Argus in a legion expansion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Chen isn't a Monk
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    what exactly makes Dwarves an underground race?

  20. #24420
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    "Imagine if it was more like TBC, with a big Azeroth story going on and us going back to Northrend at the end to fuck up Zovaal."

    Why would Zovaal want to go back to Northrend?
    That sounds like the actual Shadowlands pitch. Shadowlands was these big floating continents like Outland. And we did go back to Northrend to fuck up Zovaal, kind of: We see Zovaal needed the Forge of Souls for his big plan to work in the final raid.

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