1. #25941
    The Lightbringer Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    Its time we get spooky tower/castle. Kara 2.0. Maybe Worgen themed.
    Tbh I would rather have a Scarlet Crusade raid after all this years. We already got the spooky castle with Nathria.

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    Also imagine class sets inspired by the Scarlets/Lordaeron.

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  2. #25942
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarath View Post
    - Tyr becoming an enemy. In 10.2 he would side with us, but after that it seems clear that he would not like the "new" Aspects. I also think that Paladins will flock to his aid. Could we see the return of Salandria? She is supposed to do some bad shit after all, maybe guided by Tyr?
    Even if we are to fight him (and even then, it will most likely end with him conceding to us/the Aspects, like with many other Keepers that we've fought), I think the motivation will not be "you no follow Order, bad Aspects" (the only ones so far doing things against Order are Nozdormu and Alexstrasza), but because the dragons acclimate to whatever environment/element/power they are exposed to, and thus extremely prone to being corrupted. That was established during the Expedition quest line, he knows this. That has to be the reason why the Order-infused waters exist and why Danuser says "you don't have to consider it a sinister thing".

    Koranos' line after 10.1 memory scene about the corruption of the Aspects being Tyr's "greatest fear" definitely has a purpose. Tyr knows how dangerous for the planet the corrupted dragons are (Galakrond), so he will try to stop the Aspects (specifically, Alexstrasza) from "going the same way".
    Last edited by Zers Editor; 2023-10-07 at 09:17 AM.

  3. #25943
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacotaco View Post
    DH have several complications:
    - The starting scenario only makes sense for races already aligned with the Illidari forces. We could make some stretching and add Chaos Orcs and Manari. But if they want to expand it to all races, they need to change the intro.
    - The special customization looks really easy to reuse, they just need a bit of adjusting. Skin texture is also fairly simple (2 extra skins per race).
    - The most difficult task is the 2 demon forms.
    You are inventing problems that aren't here.

    1) New DHs will likely have same starter thing as new DKs.
    2) They can just make few generic forms. Imo reception of community will good if it will be another customization thing like Druid forms and Warlock pets.

    All this require just some work like everything. Imo Blizzard could do all classes in single patch, but 1) it's low priority; 2) every class is potential hype feature to sell patch.

    Of course it will be weird to see Tauren DHs running around. I would prefer to have races with distinct culture and only classes that fits. Personally I pick only race-class combos that make sense to me. But it's not like this ship sailed long ago, it was simply never there - we literally have Warrior Gnomes who tank since day 1.

  4. #25944
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Wait, we can buy past pvp sets already with 10.2??
    Not the elite set, but you'll be able to buy some DF sets. I think it's the bloody tokens one ?

  5. #25945
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    You are inventing problems that aren't here.

    1) New DHs will likely have same starter thing as new DKs.
    2) They can just make few generic forms. Imo reception of community will good if it will be another customization thing like Druid forms and Warlock pets.

    All this require just some work like everything. Imo Blizzard could do all classes in single patch, but 1) it's low priority; 2) every class is potential hype feature to sell patch.

    Of course it will be weird to see Tauren DHs running around. I would prefer to have races with distinct culture and only classes that fits. Personally I pick only race-class combos that make sense to me. But it's not like this ship sailed long ago, it was simply never there - we literally have Warrior Gnomes who tank since day 1.
    You say I'm inventing problems, then you proceed to give some solutions to them as if they actually exists.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


  6. #25946
    Quote Originally Posted by KayRule View Post
    Why are people so obsessed with Tyr being secretly le evil?
    Lot of it is based on the laboratory the Dragonscale Expedition found, where he was "experimenting the effects of elemental energy on dragons" and constructing Tyrhold which was dunking dragon eggs into Order juice... resulting in their freedom getting taken away and how the Incarnates became a thing.

    But mostly, Blizzard is running out of potential bad guys to pull out of their hats that eventually we'd have to fight the Titans themselves because... we're bored and we need to kill something big and powerful that's been established.

    Something something something "Titans all care about Order", something something something something They don't care about mortals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Tbh I would rather have a Scarlet Crusade raid after all this years. We already got the spooky castle with Nathria.
    Same. I would love a Scarlet Raid.....

    Though, I'm not seeing much hope in that, all I can see is maybe a dungeon... They'll probably say something like "Well it wouldn't be an interesting raid if all the enemies were just humans.. gotta have some varied bosses" or something like that.

  7. #25947
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    We got a Vampire Castle a couple of years ago.
    We got a whole ass vampire zone. And it was the best part of the whole arse expansion. And the final boss is still alive.

  8. #25948
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    We got a Vampire Castle a couple of years ago.
    I wish we had Holidays specific dungeons, a Worgen/Forsaken haunted Mansion for Hallow's End would be amazing!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    We got a whole ass vampire zone. And it was the best part of the whole arse expansion. And the final boss is still alive.
    The aesthetic of that zone was fantastic indeed!

  9. #25949
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woggmer View Post


    Same. I would love a Scarlet Raid.....

    Though, I'm not seeing much hope in that, all I can see is maybe a dungeon... They'll probably say something like "Well it wouldn't be an interesting raid if all the enemies were just humans.. gotta have some varied bosses" or something like that.
    They can always pull the "secret Dreadlord" card. But yes we will probably cheated out of it. Same way Ny'alotha became a patch and Dark Rangers became an unlockable customization option.

    *sigh*

  10. #25950
    The Lightbringer Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woggmer View Post
    Lot of it is based on the laboratory the Dragonscale Expedition found, where he was "experimenting the effects of elemental energy on dragons" and constructing Tyrhold which was dunking dragon eggs into Order juice... resulting in their freedom getting taken away and how the Incarnates became a thing.

    But mostly, Blizzard is running out of potential bad guys to pull out of their hats that eventually we'd have to fight the Titans themselves because... we're bored and we need to kill something big and powerful that's been established.

    Something something something "Titans all care about Order", something something something something They don't care about mortals.

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    Same. I would love a Scarlet Raid.....

    Though, I'm not seeing much hope in that, all I can see is maybe a dungeon... They'll probably say something like "Well it wouldn't be an interesting raid if all the enemies were just humans.. gotta have some varied bosses" or something like that.
    Tbf, they have the "titans are evil" expansion already set up quite well. Eonar and prolly Amitus will be on our side though, to give us "shades of grey" instead of all-out evil titans.

    #TEAMGIRAFFE

  11. #25951
    Quote Originally Posted by Woggmer View Post
    Lot of it is based on the laboratory the Dragonscale Expedition found, where he was "experimenting the effects of elemental energy on dragons" and constructing Tyrhold which was dunking dragon eggs into Order juice... resulting in their freedom getting taken away and how the Incarnates became a thing.

    But mostly, Blizzard is running out of potential bad guys to pull out of their hats that eventually we'd have to fight the Titans themselves because... we're bored and we need to kill something big and powerful that's been established.

    Something something something "Titans all care about Order", something something something something They don't care about mortals.
    Pretty much this. I mean the evil light came in 7.0, the titans are evil, and soon it would be the alliance

  12. #25952
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Tbf, they have the "titans are evil" expansion already set up quite well. Eonar and prolly Amitus will be on our side though, to give us "shades of grey" instead of all-out evil titans.
    They can certainly try, but they never did manage to do shades of grey well.

  13. #25953
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    They can certainly try, but they never did manage to do shades of grey well.
    Well to be fair, our first encounters with titankeepers or other order beings had us fight them - from poor Archaedas to Algalon or the corrupted Ulduar keepers. So "titans are our enemies" isn't really new, but rather back to the roots (of Eonar, haha).

    #TEAMGIRAFFE

  14. #25954
    Quote Originally Posted by Woggmer View Post
    Lot of it is based on the laboratory the Dragonscale Expedition found, where he was "experimenting the effects of elemental energy on dragons" and constructing Tyrhold which was dunking dragon eggs into Order juice... resulting in their freedom getting taken away and how the Incarnates became a thing.
    THe real question is, where is their freedom taken away? Dragons seem perfectly capable of disorderly conduct. Half the flights got corrupted by the Void. Malygos was bleeding the planet dry. Heck the Infinites did not get corrupted by anyone, they CHOSE to be infinite and pretty much oppose one of the main concerns of Order. So whatever he infused them with, it sure as hell did not strip them of their free will.
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2023-10-07 at 10:07 AM.

  15. #25955
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    THe real question is, where is their freedom taken away? Dragons seem perfectly capable of disorderly conduct. Half the flights got corrupted by the Void. Malygos was bleeding the planet dry. Heck the Infinites did not get corrupted by anyone, they CHOSE to be infinite and pretty much oppose one of the main concerns of Order. So whatever he infused them with, it sure as hell did not strip them of their free will.
    Well diabolical plans can only be as diabolical as the one who came up with them. And Danuser isn't actually an Ascian Overlord.

  16. #25956
    I was just doing a mount run in Throne of the Four Winds and the West Wind boss is Life-themed, summoning poisonous lashers. I think I'm on board with the strange fissure in Khaz Algar being the remains of Elun'Ahir, and we'll see a conflict between the ordered Life of the Emerald Dream and the pure, wild, unordered Life that Elune represents. (Is that the distinction between Nature ("the natural order") and Life?)

    I'm still hoping we'll see a resolution of the hypocrisy of the Night Elves and green dragons fostering a world tree that represents the Great Cycle while revering the violation of the Great Cycle that the Emerald Dream and its Wild Gods represent, but I guess it's as good a tie-in to the next expansion as anything. The Emerald Dream and the Elemental Plane are really the last two major examples of titanic meddling so if Iridikron's singular goal really is to undo everything the titans have done, they both make sense as targets. Xal'atath might also want to target both if the illustration from Chronicle really is prophesying her hijacking of the remains of the tree.

    I'm also still holding out for the primordial trolls we were told we'd get in Dragonflight. I'm not sure we've ever had something cut like that and then used in the next expansion, and I'm not sure it makes sense for them to have come from the other side of the world, but I want them. If it turns out they were just talking about drogbar I'm gonna lose my shit.

  17. #25957
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    THe real question is, where is their freedom taken away? Dragons seem perfectly capable of disorderly conduct. Half the flights got corrupted by the Void. Malygos was bleeding the planet dry. Heck the Infinites did not get corrupted by anyone, they CHOSE to be infinite and pretty much oppose one of the main concerns of Order. So whatever he infused them with, it sure as hell did not strip them of their free will.
    The speculation book released in 10.2 PTR also stated that this is not a recent (by the events of Dragonflight) thing or not relegated to a small number of people. The dragons acknowledge what the Keepers pursue and the possible negatives their hard-headedness may bring.

    That is why Danuser meant by "no need to look at it as a sinister thing". Because in reality it doesn't actually do anything in the story that warrants it being called such.

    The conflict came because it was done to the Incarnates' eggs, even though they were vehemently against it. Their views and wishes were disregarded. That is what Alexstrasza finds "abhorrent" about it.
    Last edited by Zers Editor; 2023-10-07 at 10:51 AM.

  18. #25958
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    THe real question is, where is their freedom taken away? Dragons seem perfectly capable of disorderly conduct. Half the flights got corrupted by the Void. Malygos was bleeding the planet dry. Heck the Infinites did not get corrupted by anyone, they CHOSE to be infinite and pretty much oppose one of the main concerns of Order. So whatever he infused them with, it sure as hell did not strip them of their free will.
    Not sure "but the ones who got corrupted afterwards were able to pursue their own goals" is the best argument for them being free under Order infusion.

    We saw with the Dracthyr that Order magic can be used as essentially magical brainwashing. The argument could be made that their entire default outlook is compromised and not indicative of what the Dragons would actually want if they hadn't been ordered.

    Not being mindless slaves lacking any free will doesn't mean they're completely free.

  19. #25959
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Not sure "but the ones who got corrupted afterwards were able to pursue their own goals" is the best argument for them being free under Order infusion.
    OK then what about the examples I gave of dragons who were NOT corrupted? Being an infinite is not a corruption, it is a choice.

  20. #25960
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    OK then what about all the examples I gave of people who were NOT corrupted?
    I mean... read the entire post instead of just the first line?

    "Not being mindless slaves lacking any free will doesn't mean they're completely free."

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