1. #26261
    I am Murloc! Auxis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hansworst View Post
    Don't we have that already since Cata?
    Have what?
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  2. #26262
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    It's a bad MMO because it's a bad MMO, not because of the storytelling.
    It's bad storytelling for an MMO. If storytelling doesn't serve the purpose of the storytelling, it's not good storytelling. It's one of the first things that dropped the game's quality for me in beta.

  3. #26263
    Brewmaster Leowyld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    It's bad storytelling for an MMO. If storytelling doesn't serve the purpose of the storytelling, it's not good storytelling. It's one of the first things that dropped the game's quality for me in beta.
    It's a matter of opinion. I don't play SWTOR, myself. But it feels to me when I hear people praise that game for any reason, it is specifically for the storytelling.
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  4. #26264
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    It's bad storytelling for an MMO. If storytelling doesn't serve the purpose of the storytelling, it's not good storytelling. It's one of the first things that dropped the game's quality for me in beta.
    Is there a point to this pseudointellectual drivel?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leowyld View Post
    It's a matter of opinion. I don't play SWTOR, myself. But it feels to me when I hear people praise that game for any reason, it is specifically for the storytelling.
    It definitely sells the class fantasy, and since each class story tells you more pieces of the puzzle it gives it greater replayability.

  5. #26265
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    It's bad storytelling for an MMO. If storytelling doesn't serve the purpose of the storytelling, it's not good storytelling. It's one of the first things that dropped the game's quality for me in beta.
    What?

    What does "bad storytelling for an MMO" even mean? What the fuck is "good storytelling for an MMO"?

  6. #26266
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    They actually explained that whole thing in the Danuser interview from Nobbel.

    Basically, it's not so much that we're the chosen ones, it's more so that the Progenitors put those relics and whatnot in place for mortals to use if the Universe ever hit that type of eventuality. As for the Maw Walker stuff? That's just an eventuality Death guys see as a "prophecy". It's akin to IRL prophecies and whatnot. A lot of it is BS, a lot of it isn't, etc.

    As for why we in particular are the ones to activate said relics? Idk, I think Azeroth was given a special Progenitor gift tbh.
    So if it was for mortals how come it only reacted to us and not the other mortals?

  7. #26267
    Stood in the Fire Dragon ANX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marlamin View Post
    Not really. One can maybe argue the airlock system used in Zaralek which allows them to preload other maps while on another one as well as seamlessly transfer players between them, could theoretically be used to tie together maps at certain points to give the illusion of larger maps (provided they improve upon it since the Zaralek transition can be a bit buggy at times).

    As always there are very small things that show up in the client itself that either aren't used yet, are for something internal or are for another branch like 1.15.x so it's hard to tell if any of that will end up being for 11.0 or not, but I haven't seen anything that implies a larger world or anything like that.
    Thank you for your insight!

    I see, the airlock system could be used for other situations like the open sea as @Nymrohd said, i could see it used for a Beyond the Storm like expansion.

  8. #26268
    Quote Originally Posted by pacotaco View Post
    Isn't it because we have the Hearth of Azeroth? I though that was connection.
    Nope apparently it's any mortals which still makes 0 sense but it's SL writing sooooo

  9. #26269
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Is there a point to this pseudointellectual drivel?
    Interesting take for a post offering absolutely no fucking point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    What?

    What does "bad storytelling for an MMO" even mean? What the fuck is "good storytelling for an MMO"?
    It means that MMOs by design involve the fundamental obstacle that many players are going to do any given activity, which makes writing a storyline as if you are the only person doing a thing and your specific choices are the ones that matter a great way to completely break immersion and have an entire experience feel silly. Much like Legion asking every paladin to pretend they are the Highlord and the person weilding Ashbringer. Only SWTOR does this all over the place with storybeats everywhere, resulting in a whole lot of just goofy.

  10. #26270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    It means that MMOs by design involve the fundamental obstacle that many players are going to do any given activity, which makes writing a storyline as if you are the only person doing a thing and your specific choices are the ones that matter a great way to completely break immersion and have an entire experience feel silly. Much like Legion asking every paladin to pretend they are the Highlord and the person weilding Ashbringer. Only SWTOR does this all over the place with storybeats everywhere, resulting in a whole lot of just goofy.
    Isn't Legion one of the most beloved expansions? I see why that could be seen as an issue, but I don't think most players see it is a big negative.
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  11. #26271
    Quote Originally Posted by Leowyld View Post
    Isn't Legion one of the most beloved expansions? I see why that could be seen as an issue, but I don't think most players see it is a big negative.
    Legion is remembered fondly for good initial content releases, strong raid tiers, Suramar, and interesting story beats. It also saw tons of complaining at the time for how dumb the idea that everyone is an artifact weilding commander of their entire class's collective efforts. This isn't an issue of overall quality of expansions, it's a debate about the level of narrative focus given to the player character, spanning from being a no name unimportant soldier doing small tasks to being the chosen prophesized savior of a cosmic realm. Legion is on the far bad end of expansions for this aspect.

  12. #26272
    Quote Originally Posted by Leowyld View Post
    Isn't Legion one of the most beloved expansions? I see why that could be seen as an issue, but I don't think most players see it is a big negative.
    Yes, but that one stands out because that was the one period where they managed to balance it well: You were constantly with other adventurers who were doing stuff as epic as you were. The characters didn't single you out as being a messiah figure or the single hope for the world, but also you got to be the owner of a super unique legendary lore weapon.

  13. #26273
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Interesting take for a post offering absolutely no fucking point.



    It means that MMOs by design involve the fundamental obstacle that many players are going to do any given activity, which makes writing a storyline as if you are the only person doing a thing and your specific choices are the ones that matter a great way to completely break immersion and have an entire experience feel silly. Much like Legion asking every paladin to pretend they are the Highlord and the person weilding Ashbringer. Only SWTOR does this all over the place with storybeats everywhere, resulting in a whole lot of just goofy.
    Except SWTOR specifically asks you to assemble a strike force whenever you do dungeons. Granted this falls appart when you reach KOTFE and even Smugglers and Agents are asked to sit on the damned throne.
    But having at least the leveling experience tailored to your class in a story where you and what you want actually matters is much better than being forced to do something that your character would have absolutely fuck all reason to care about.

  14. #26274
    Herald of the Titans Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon ANX View Post
    Thank you for your insight!

    I see, the airlock system could be used for other situations like the open sea as @Nymrohd said, i could see it used for a Beyond the Storm like expansion.
    I wonder if they could use “storm riding” to get to the new continent (and/or new zones added in patches) using this system.

    Someone mentioned it could be like the Kessel run which I could see them using this system for.
    Now how fun that’d actually be in practice is yet to be seen.
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  15. #26275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Legion is remembered fondly for good initial content releases, strong raid tiers, Suramar, and interesting story beats. It also saw tons of complaining at the time for how dumb the idea that everyone is an artifact weilding commander of their entire class's collective efforts. This isn't an issue of overall quality of expansions, it's a debate about the level of narrative focus given to the player character, spanning from being a no name unimportant soldier doing small tasks to being the chosen prophesized savior of a cosmic realm. Legion is on the far bad end of expansions for this aspect.
    Ah, so people hated the Class Order Halls, then? I liked it, myself. So, I didn't know.
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  16. #26276
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Legion is remembered fondly for good initial content releases, strong raid tiers, Suramar, and interesting story beats. It also saw tons of complaining at the time for how dumb the idea that everyone is an artifact weilding commander of their entire class's collective efforts. This isn't an issue of overall quality of expansions, it's a debate about the level of narrative focus given to the player character, spanning from being a no name unimportant soldier doing small tasks to being the chosen prophesized savior of a cosmic realm. Legion is on the far bad end of expansions for this aspect.
    I'd rather be the "chosen prophesized savior of a cosmic realm", leader of a class convenant, than an npc next to dev self insert characters, standing still in cutscenes like it was the case during BfA/SL/Dragonflights

    but whatever

  17. #26277
    Majority of people i've interacted across years with have been positive about class order halls from legion, it was cool to finally being kinda rewarded for the class you're playing and having that class specific content and history instead of just going who the fuck knows where and just being another nameless lackey.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yunravel View Post
    I'd rather be the "chosen prophesized savior of a cosmic realm", leader of a class convenant, than an npc next to dev self insert characters, standing still in cutscenes like it was the case during BfA/SL/Dragonflights

    but whatever
    Same.


    Like someone mentioned, whenever i see that someone just wants to be "an nameless adventurer" at this point in history of retail wow.. Is pretty "cringe".
    Last edited by ImTheMizAwesome; 2023-10-08 at 04:27 PM.

  18. #26278
    Quote Originally Posted by Imotbh View Post
    Just a thought reading your post: they could use this tie Silvermoon and the surrounding zones to EK, removing the loading screen. Couldn't they? Same with Azuremyst. Imagine if this had been done in SL with the transition between zones
    Sort of, it still wouldn't solve the reason why these zones don't have flying to begin with -- they weren't designed as such, so it'll need an art/design/QA pass for that.

  19. #26279
    Herald of the Titans Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Legion is remembered fondly for good initial content releases, strong raid tiers, Suramar, and interesting story beats. It also saw tons of complaining at the time for how dumb the idea that everyone is an artifact weilding commander of their entire class's collective efforts. This isn't an issue of overall quality of expansions, it's a debate about the level of narrative focus given to the player character, spanning from being a no name unimportant soldier doing small tasks to being the chosen prophesized savior of a cosmic realm. Legion is on the far bad end of expansions for this aspect.
    I liked the class halls & artifact system tbh. I love class specific content anyways, and I think most of the Order Hall campaigns were great. (Though there were some that weren’t the best)

    Legion was one of the last expansions with the nice “hero moments” that Warcraft used to do well.
    I still fondly remember most of Legion’s cinematics, but I can’t say the same about BfA/SL/DF.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Chen isn't a Monk

  20. #26280
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Legion is remembered fondly for good initial content releases, strong raid tiers, Suramar, and interesting story beats. It also saw tons of complaining at the time for how dumb the idea that everyone is an artifact weilding commander of their entire class's collective efforts. This isn't an issue of overall quality of expansions, it's a debate about the level of narrative focus given to the player character, spanning from being a no name unimportant soldier doing small tasks to being the chosen prophesized savior of a cosmic realm. Legion is on the far bad end of expansions for this aspect.
    To be fair in the Pre-Chromie time Era it made sense, cause you have been doing stuff since the opening of the Dark Portal so by the time you reach Legion you are pretty much a demigod. But now if you Chromie time to legion for leveling it's just dumb. Although frankly so is every other expansion.
    A while back. I went on a run with a Demon Hunter on PTR. After the starting experience I did BfA untill mid Nazjatar when the Shadowlands opened up so I hopped in there.
    There wasn't a single point where I could justify my character's decisions.

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