1. #26281
    Quote Originally Posted by Yunravel View Post
    I'd rather be the "chosen prophesized savior of a cosmic realm", leader of a class convenant, than an npc next to dev self insert characters, standing still in cutscenes like it was the case during BfA/SL/Dragonflights

    but whatever
    There's definitely a healthy medium between the two. I think the devs lean far too much into building big personality NPC characters which feel almost soapy, which could be a huge part of the issue. I don't think we necessarily need the recurring cast of characters to guide us through every questline or MSQ, but it's cool to see them pop up occasionally.

    Our character can still be a huge hero without having to be a side character to side character NPCs in each expansion.

  2. #26282
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Except SWTOR specifically asks you to assemble a strike force whenever you do dungeons. Granted this falls appart when you reach KOTFE and even Smugglers and Agents are asked to sit on the damned throne.
    But having at least the leveling experience tailored to your class in a story where you and what you want actually matters is much better than being forced to do something that your character would have absolutely fuck all reason to care about.
    I strongly disagree. I would rather be tangentially forced into doing something I don't necessarily want to do (a thing that happens to some degree in every story based choice-offering video game in existence anyway) than have canon be some nebulous approximation that begs me to pretend that I'm playing a different game genre and not surrounded by people who are treated as also being the exact literal figure I am supposed to be.

    At least the first one maintains an immersive storyline even if I wish it had gone a different way. The second one is just a fundamentally nonsensical world that comes across as game-y and artificial.

  3. #26283
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Would you rather just tag along while others do the important stuff for you?
    For WoW, yeah. Have less "main characters" too while we're at it. Less of Thrall and Jaina and Khadgar etc. I'd like the world to be the main character. Having NPC's being so prominent throughout the whole thing makes the world feel smaller.

  4. #26284
    Herald of the Titans Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yunravel View Post
    I'd rather be the "chosen prophesized savior of a cosmic realm", leader of a class convenant, than an npc next to dev self insert characters, standing still in cutscenes like it was the case during BfA/SL/Dragonflights

    but whatever
    The issue with this is that being all of that instantly means nothing when you’re then going right back to “kill x kobolds, collect x items”

    I don’t think we’ve ever seen Thrall or Malfurion do such menial tasks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Chen isn't a Monk

  5. #26285
    Quote Originally Posted by milkmustache View Post
    Our character can still be a huge hero without having to be a side character to side character NPCs in each expansion.
    You know i actually wonder now - The vyranoth questline with odyn in 10.2, wil me being a battlelord warrior be in any way aknowledged by NPC's and will they react to my character..

    I remember someone posting here that Vyranoth pretty much "persuade" Eiyr, but do we have any different option there as warriors that did legion class hall questline or it's just "follow npc" kinda only stuff.
    Last edited by ImTheMizAwesome; 2023-10-08 at 04:36 PM.

  6. #26286
    Quote Originally Posted by Marlamin View Post
    As always there are very small things that show up in the client itself that either aren't used yet, are for something internal or are for another branch like 1.15.x so it's hard to tell if any of that will end up being for 11.0 or not, but I haven't seen anything that implies a larger world or anything like that.
    Also some things could just have not worked out as they wished. I doubt they always scrub everything off.
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2023-10-08 at 04:37 PM.

  7. #26287
    Quote Originally Posted by ImTheMizAwesome View Post
    You know i actually wonder now - The vyranoth questline with odyn in 10.2, will me being a battlelord warrior will be in any way aknowledged by NPC's and will they react to my character..
    I remember someone posting here that Vyranoth pretty much "persuade" Eiyr, but do we have any different option there as warriors that did legion class hall questline, hmm.
    I think the most you'll get is a dialogue option-- which is cool and more than they've done in past expansions-- but this kind of debacle shouldn't come up regarding a main storyline, we shouldn't have to wonder if it'll get acknowledged or not. If the player characters ever have history with said NPC, then it should be immediately considered in how the building of that quest works, or else it sort of just kills the immersion built through other questlines.

  8. #26288
    Quote Originally Posted by milkmustache View Post
    There's definitely a healthy medium between the two. I think the devs lean far too much into building big personality NPC characters which feel almost soapy, which could be a huge part of the issue. I don't think we necessarily need the recurring cast of characters to guide us through every questline or MSQ, but it's cool to see them pop up occasionally.

    Our character can still be a huge hero without having to be a side character to side character NPCs in each expansion.
    I mean, yeah thats the point, the healthy medium between the two sounds like the best of both worlds.

    Or, in a more lazy way, we could just go back to vanilla type of story telling because I'd rather be non-existant and follow the story through books and patch cutscenes than being the side character of a side character NPCs like you said so well.

  9. #26289
    Scarab Lord MCMLXXXII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auxis View Post
    Have what?
    Non pre- rendered cinematic with the player character.

  10. #26290
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    I strongly disagree. I would rather be tangentially forced into doing something I don't necessarily want to do (a thing that happens to some degree in every story based choice-offering video game in existence anyway) than have canon be some nebulous approximation that begs me to pretend that I'm playing a different game genre and not surrounded by people who are treated as also being the exact literal figure I am supposed to be.

    At least the first one maintains an immersive storyline even if I wish it had gone a different way. The second one is just a fundamentally nonsensical world that comes across as game-y and artificial.
    That is completely valid as a personal preference, just don't pretend it is anything more than that. Okay?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    The issue with this is that being all of that instantly means nothing when you’re then going right back to “kill x kobolds, collect x items”

    I don’t think we’ve ever seen Thrall or Malfurion do such menial tasks.
    Which is great in FFXIV when you go somewhere with the Scions and they actually go to gather firewood with you.

  11. #26291
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    The issue with this is that being all of that instantly means nothing when you’re then going right back to “kill x kobolds, collect x items”

    I don’t think we’ve ever seen Thrall or Malfurion do such menial tasks.
    I mean not every quests needs to be canon, because on the other hand, when you are " a random, killing x kobolds ", it doesn't make sense when suddenly you go toe to toe with Dar'khan Drathir and beat the shit out of him.

    Then you can say "well but this quest, or this final dungeon boss, isn't canon, you weren't the one killing him." (The same way you can do that with thoses puny quests).

    In the end it just depends of how you want to see your character, Vanilla was in a sense better on that end that since you weren't truly there, you could imagine whatever the fuck you want. While currently, you are just standing in T-pose next to important characters, without emotions or barely any emotions in 30sec longs official "main story quest" cutscenes, it just bugs me out.
    Last edited by Yunravel; 2023-10-08 at 04:43 PM.

  12. #26292
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    That is completely valid as a personal preference, just don't pretend it is anything more than that. Okay?
    I didn't. I pointed out that storytelling isn't good if it fails to serve the intended purpose for that story. A dramatic movie that is hilarious but not dramatic at all is a case of bad dramatic writing. A children's show that has really insightful, deep characterization but is utterly boring and unengaging to children is not a well written children's show. MMO writing that begs you to pretend you aren't in an MMO is not an example of a well written MMO.

  13. #26293
    Quote Originally Posted by Hansworst View Post
    Non pre- rendered cinematic with the player character.
    I think Legion is the first time they started to add them. Certainly not in Cata (13 years ago)

  14. #26294
    Brewmaster Leowyld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    MMO writing that begs you to pretend you aren't in an MMO is not an example of a well written MMO.
    It is more fair to say you do not like that sort of writing in an MMO. That doesn't make it objectively bad or poorly written. For those who do like that sort of writing in an MMO, it makes for a more immersive and impactful story. Unless you are trying to say it is more than your opinion.
    Cosmic greetings, all, I'm the Raccoonatic Commander!
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  15. #26295
    I remember in BFA running errands for Nathanos pretty much screaming at my character and just accepting it like some little kid without any say.. My big ass orc battlelord from Legion and other stuff that has my character conquered in the past.

    It was pretty silly at the time.

  16. #26296
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Exactly. It is a one button toggle that you leave on and that is it. It is bullshit. If it were like voidform where you need to build up resources for it and need to work on it to keep it up and/or have abilities unavailable in Shadowform like with Moonkin, it could be fun. But this way it is basically a passive trait that takes up a slot on your hotbar.
    Oo come on, its one freaking buttom that has been there for years. Unclicking it, is a you problem.

    Leave it as it is.

  17. #26297
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacotaco View Post
    I think Legion is the first time they started to add them. Certainly not in Cata (13 years ago)

    We've had them since cata.



    They just weren't any good until recently.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  18. #26298
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    Oo come on, its one freaking buttom that has been there for years. Unclicking it, is a you problem.

    Leave it as it is.
    Pros to making it cosmetic and baking the 10% into the spec:

    - Extra Customization Option
    - No potential to lose damage by it randomly falling off

    Cons to making it cosmetic:

    - It has been in the game for a long time

  19. #26299
    Quote Originally Posted by Leowyld View Post
    It is more fair to say you do not like that sort of writing in an MMO. That doesn't make it objectively bad or poorly written. For those who do like that sort of writing in an MMO, it makes for a more immersive and impactful story. Unless you are trying to say it is more than your opinion.
    "Some people like comedies so it's still a well written dramatic movie!"
    That's not how that works.

    How are you liking that sort of writing in an MMO when the writing itself requires you ignore that you're playing an MMO? You can like that writing, but that doesn't make it work in the thing it's outright denying. A chocolate cake with no chocolate in it isn't subjective and impactful just because some people don't like chocolate and prefer vanilla. It's a bad chocolate cake, full stop.

  20. #26300
    Brewmaster Leowyld's Avatar
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    The Aggramar cutscene at the end of Legion was the first one I remember people being really excited to see their character in. But, yeah, there obviously ones before that. Even in Legion itself - the artifact weapon acquisition cutscenes come to mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    "Some people like comedies so it's still a well written dramatic movie!"
    That's not how that works.

    How are you liking that sort of writing in an MMO when the writing itself requires you ignore that you're playing an MMO? You can like that writing, but that doesn't make it work in the thing it's outright denying. A chocolate cake with no chocolate in it isn't subjective and impactful just because some people don't like chocolate and prefer vanilla. It's a bad chocolate cake, full stop.
    So you are insisting it is more than personal preference?
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