1. #26481
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I don't even know if that is a good call anymore. I got so excited for WoD (and then cancelled my preorder when they cancelled Karabor as a capital and pretended they never said it would happen). I got so excited for BfA. I even was somewhat excited for Torghast as a potential solo advancement path then seeing how happy testers were about it for Alpha only for both the reward system and the content to change completely by launch. It's just hard to trust them anymore.
    For me every expansion was worth box price, cause it gives solid 2 weeks of intense gameplay. My favourite launch was BfA even it's far from my favourite expansion, it was perfect balance between down-to-earth but still interesting story and on top of that I had something like 2nd launch when I started Alliance character week later.

    Key is what happens after launch, notice that all modern expansion with 'good' reputation (MoP, Legion, DF) had their first patch released very fast. It's not only about content, but also fixing launch problems faster. Without that, small issues become big months later, and serious ones - unbearable.

  2. #26482
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myrrh View Post
    Samesies, similar vibes to WoD. I was so convinced that SoL leak was utter BS, because of course timetravelling orc shananigans couldn't be real. Healthy dose of humble pie there.
    My gripe was World of WarCraft: Warlords of Draenor is such a cheesy ass title. Like I get it, there is War in it. Chill out edgy boy.
    And I still think the title is retarded.
    My big humble pie was MoP. With the bitter taste of Uldum in my mouth I was convinced an expansion based on Chinese culture would be a disaster because it would be dumb racist memes. And we ended up with the best continent in game. Boy was I glad to be wrong.

  3. #26483
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    For me every expansion was worth box price, cause it gives solid 2 weeks of intense gameplay. My favourite launch was BfA even it's far from my favourite expansion, it was perfect balance between down-to-earth but still interesting story and on top of that I had something like 2nd launch when I started Alliance character week later.

    Key is what happens after launch, notice that all modern expansion with 'good' reputation (MoP, Legion, DF) had their first patch released very fast. It's not only about content, but also fixing launch problems faster. Without that, small issues become big months later, and serious ones - unbearable.
    Oh I will not dispute that. Every expansion will be decent fun for at least a couple of months for me. I will get my money's worth. It is not the highest quality of entertainment, I am not going to compare an hour playing WoW with e.g. an hour playing a quality CRPG like the Witcher 3 or BG3. But it is good enough.

    And also I think it's worth nothing that the big issues with each of the problem expansions were very different.

  4. #26484
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Time for a tinfoil theory (mostly just spitballing).

    This old concept art of the Tempest Keep was made by one of the guys who was in Sons of the Storm, along with Metzen and Didier, Peter Lee.

    It is the Naaru dimensional ship that the Naaru used to aid Outland in TBC. One of its satellites was the Exodar.

    Colour scheme is pretty similar to the unused gryphon textures. It has tempest in the name. It was made by the Naaru.

    Avaloren is a Naaru stronghold, inhabited by those serving the Light instead of Order.

    Naaru lore will be expanded in 11.0, so they're not just yellow wind chimes, but diverse creatures of Light and Shadow, and their pure form (both combined) is sort of ghostly green and surrounded by chaotic energies.

    Naaru are long lost brethren according to Xal'atath. So maybe she represents pure Void while they're more dynamic, seeking to bring balance.

    Could have something to do with Elune as well. Maybe the White Lady and Blue Child symbolise this balance on Azeroth. Harmony. Similar to the Great Cycle with Elune and the Winter Queen that we learned about in Shadowlands. Plays into that whole theme with the Embrace of the two moons, as well.

    So there could be a clash of Light and Shadow after all, but not just stereotypical "Naaru and Draenei vs. Old Gods" or whatever, but more nuanced. And the Elements might be involved, too, if there's some type of Balanced Naaru on Azeroth (or its moons).

    Explains those ecco domes as well.

    Okay tinfoil over.
    Ah heck, I forgot about those domes. On thinking about them again, pretty sure (or at least hopeful) that they're just fancy visuals for Outland racing. They were added in the same build as the achievements for Netherstorm racing, so I'm mildly confident that's all they are:
    https://www.wowhead.com/achievement=...n-reverse-gold
    https://www.wowhead.com/npc=209594/eco-dome-hole-mid

    But to your main point, I think I'd be a bit miffed if Avaloren turned into crystal palace #422. I say that being rather fond of the Naaru, but really hopeful for some new stuff and the possibilities people have theorised about here sound like a breath of fresh air.

  5. #26485
    Quote Originally Posted by Myrrh View Post
    Ah heck, I forgot about those domes. On thinking about them again, pretty sure (or at least hopeful) that they're just fancy visuals for Outland racing. They were added in the same build as the achievements for Netherstorm racing, so I'm mildly confident that's all they are:
    https://www.wowhead.com/achievement=...n-reverse-gold
    https://www.wowhead.com/npc=209594/eco-dome-hole-mid

    But to your main point, I think I'd be a bit miffed if Avaloren turned into crystal palace #422. I say that being rather fond of the Naaru, but really hopeful for some new stuff and the possibilities people have theorised about here sound like a breath of fresh air.
    Fair enough. I'm really just spitballing though.

    Maybe, if any of this ended up being true, they wouldn't go in the "crystal/draenei/oldschool Naaru" direction, but something else. Perhaps the Black Empire drew inspiration from this place, or maybe it's something entirely new. Chaotic energies, lots of greens and blacks, sure. But new architecture we haven't seen before.

    "Heretics" could imply that the titanforged who went there chose to align themselves with this Light/Shadow/whatever thingie instead of Order.

    Although I suppose crystals could be part of it, if we're going underground.

    Maybe there's something similar to the Osho'gun down there at Khaz Algar. A huge, radiant crystal of greenish energies. A Fallen Light/Void God? Is Elune perhaps some kind of offshoot from that, or a reflection of its dormant powers? Sort of how Y'shaarj left the Sha behind.

    Is Azeroth really one of those, and have the Titans merely been trying to shape her in their image instead, to contain any potential damage if she turns into a Void Lord-direction?
    Last edited by Worldshaper; 2023-10-09 at 11:00 AM.

  6. #26486
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    For me every expansion was worth box price, cause it gives solid 2 weeks of intense gameplay. My favourite launch was BfA even it's far from my favourite expansion, it was perfect balance between down-to-earth but still interesting story and on top of that I had something like 2nd launch when I started Alliance character week later.

    Key is what happens after launch, notice that all modern expansion with 'good' reputation (MoP, Legion, DF) had their first patch released very fast. It's not only about content, but also fixing launch problems faster. Without that, small issues become big months later, and serious ones - unbearable.
    BfA was definitely my favorite launch. It seemd to have everything I could ever want from an expansion, bar player boats.
    It had a naval theme. HvA storylines. Old God undercurrents. Naga. Uban zones. RTS/PvE Battlegrounds. Island exploration. etc.

    Still so shocking that it managed to shit the bed so spectuacularly bad in basically all aspects.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  7. #26487
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    BfA was definitely my favorite launch. It seemd to have everything I could ever want from an expansion, bar player boats.
    It had a naval theme. HvA storylines. Old God undercurrents. Naga. Uban zones. RTS/PvE Battlegrounds. Island exploration. etc.

    Still so shocking that it managed to shit the bed so spectuacularly bad in basically all aspects.
    Dude Kul'Tiras had amazing zones. Especially Drustvar. The atmosphere was so good. I still don't understand how they managed to fuck up that expansion. They had gold on their hands.

  8. #26488
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    It's still baffling how much they messed up Torghast lol. It's like someone saw that it had the potential to be a real pillar of the game and they were fearing people wouldn't want to play m+/raids anymore so they completely wracked it but also made it mandatory at the same time.
    What I remember was that Torghast was kind of similar to Ashran in the sense that during testing there wasn't a whole lot to do and Torghast was the fun new thing. But realistically nobody would want a challenge that takes you an unlimited amount of time. I don't know many people willing to spend a whole afternoon in this. So they changed it but it became dull but condensed and then tried to incentives people to do it through a currency required to craft legendaries plus a few legendary "recipes".
    At launch it wasn't a pain to do Torghast, it became this annoying long challenge that a few specs can destroy in season 2 when they've added the item to unlock max-level soulbind abilities.

  9. #26489
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    I enjoyed BfA quite a bit, like my main gripe with expansion is how hard it was to target specific azerite pieces (compared to before where there was just one chest tier piece source per difficulty, or current where any chest piece can be a tier piece), but I felt like with 8.2 and the new azerite abilities in the neck it became more fun,and then 8.3 even more fun with corruptions.
    Island expeditions: I enjoyed them and always mention how I would like them to return those islands (zones) with quests on them or something.
    Warfronts: mediocre but not bad IMO, just not too much replay value for someone who mostly did raid and dungeons other than transmog. Still was nice to have a reason to update the 2 older zones.
    Dungeons and Raids - I had great fun.
    World Content: I found it quite enjoyable, especially once 8.2 dropped (but even before then it was fine).
    Zones and quests: except the alliance zones having less variety in them design wise, I still liked them very much and the leveling was a nice change of pace after Legion.
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  10. #26490
    BfA had so many features I wish they would carry forward. Island Expeditions had great content with the completely wrong gameplay attached to it. Warfronts were available sporadically, they made no effort to make their gameplay make sense and were only saved by the fact that they were gatekeeping some amazing mogs. Azerite armor was really the only thing that was indefensible trash (with Essences being an amazing system that would have worked great if it was on its own without two other borrowed power systems).
    Very decent dungeons though I don't like the difficulty spike from Legion. Solid raids though some of Eternal Palace was problematic (still far better raids than SL and what we got from DF so far).

  11. #26491
    I think the azerite system was an absolutely snoozefest when it comes to just being something cool, going from class order halls and artifacts with many different type of content attached that you can actually see with your eyes to some necklace you can't even see.. From pure casual standpoint - it was very boring.

  12. #26492
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    BfA had so many features I wish they would carry forward. Island Expeditions had great content with the completely wrong gameplay attached to it. Warfronts were available sporadically, they made no effort to make their gameplay make sense and were only saved by the fact that they were gatekeeping some amazing mogs. Azerite armor was really the only thing that was indefensible trash (with Essences being an amazing system that would have worked great if it was on its own without two other borrowed power systems).
    Very decent dungeons though I don't like the difficulty spike from Legion. Solid raids though some of Eternal Palace was problematic (still far better raids than SL and what we got from DF so far).
    This is kinda what Bellular drew attention to in a relatively recent video. Blizzard had this "new big thing" era from WoD to SL and instead of just iterating on old systems every expansion was just a kneejerk throw the baby out with the bathwater reaction to what they perceived to be wrong with that system. Sure, mission tables stuck around, but where are better Strongholds? Where are better Artifact Weapons? Better Island Sanctuaries? SL would have been perfect for those. Pocket dimensions that show other afterlives that you go to to gather more anime cause frankly the big ones need it more than Buddhist hell designed to keep the grand total of half a dozen pandaren who weren't nice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ImTheMizAwesome View Post
    I think the azerite system was an absolutely snoozefest when it comes to just being something cool, going from class order halls and artifacts with many different type of content attached that you can actually see with your eyes to some necklace you can't even see.. From pure casual standpoint - it was very boring.
    Absolutely. Going from wielding the Ashbringer or Doomhammer to some dumb necklace that didn't even exist in lore before was a downgrade.

  13. #26493
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Absolutely. Going from wielding the Ashbringer or Doomhammer to some dumb necklace that didn't even exist in lore before was a downgrade.
    I think if we had gotten the Essences immediately I think the Heart would have felt much more impactful. It wouldn't be a silly amulet that empowers some armor, it would be an Amulet through which we hold the power of the Dragonflights, the Titans or the Void.

    I liked the borrowed power systems but Blizzard fucked up so much with them that they burned the concept so I don't think we will see it in the near future. Imo it is bound to come back at some point though.

  14. #26494
    I am Murloc! Auxis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terremer View Post
    so tempest isn't linked to the next expansion?
    Nah; from what I've read, 'Tempest' is an internal name for a database or something.
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  15. #26495
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImTheMizAwesome View Post
    I think the azerite system was an absolutely snoozefest when it comes to just being something cool, going from class order halls and artifacts with many different type of content attached that you can actually see with your eyes to some necklace you can't even see.. From pure casual standpoint - it was very boring.
    Yeah blizzard dropped the ball big time on the heart.

    One of the best/well received features of the artifacts was the artifact appearance system. They definitely could have made the heart visible & given it customization like the other artifacts but for some reason they dropped it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
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  16. #26496
    The Undying Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImTheMizAwesome View Post
    Well anyway, new week started with hopefully some new info.

    i vote for blizzcon goodies reveal.
    If Dragonflight is any indication, we should be getting a legitimate leak in the next 7-10 days.

  17. #26497
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terremer View Post
    oof... that was a terrible name
    I think it is not that bad. I mean if it were a world revamp expansion.
    First revamp: Cataclysm
    Second revamp: Tempest.

    That's poetry, my dude.

  18. #26498
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Oh for sure. Can somebody who is not stuck in an office look up when the legit leaks hit the speculation threads for each expansion compared to BlizzCon? That could give us a pretty good guestimate.
    <7-14 days.

  19. #26499
    The Lightbringer Izalla's Avatar
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    As someone who didn't give a damn about azerite armour because I don't do mythic+ and have no raid group anymore, BFA was hands down one of my favourite expacs.

    I desperately wish they would give us two different leveling paths again. I play horde and alliance and my least favourite leveling experiences have been the ones where there is little or no difference from character to character. In Legion I was relieved when I could just use the Legion invasions to level so I didn't have to do all the same zones and quests for the 10th time, and Shadowlands just had no redeeming qualities to the leveling experience. Dragonflight has lovely zones and enough quests and other ways to get exp that you can get to max level without leaving one zone if you really want to so that alleviates the sameness, but there still are only 4 zones. But BFA? I doubt it will ever be topped for me.

  20. #26500
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    <7-14 days.
    Actually I have a better timeline.. when..

    http://reveal.blizzard.com/ stops being warcraft rumble we'll have a legit leak come in.

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