1. #26621
    Quote Originally Posted by Zebir95 View Post
    https://www.bluetracker.gg/wow/topic...ctober-9-2023/

    here we go

    Well, looks like it's going to be a classic week. let's try again next week lol
    Seems I'm wrong, figured a federal holiday...well whatever.

    But yeah like I wouldn't really be expecting much at this point, anyway.

  2. #26622
    Quote Originally Posted by Valysar View Post
    There is a nightmare drake, who knows
    It's undoubtedly the Virtual Ticket going on sale. Typically it goes up a full month before blizzcon so we're behind.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paula Deen View Post
    I mean you can tell noticeably that between 9.1 and 9.2 the writing team either had a massive change or was given very specific direction. The sharp left turn in presentation was much appreciated but still jarring.

    Shout out to Zereth Mortis, redheaded step child of Modern WoW.
    How far before expansions go up do you think they get planned? It's definitely the firing of Afrasiabi in june 2020 if its anything.
    Last edited by Ersula; 2023-10-09 at 06:24 PM.

  3. #26623
    Quote Originally Posted by Houle View Post
    Not even really that, people where simply hyped about Bolvar finally bringing the force. The way hes been acting in Legion was awfully similar to how Ner'zhul did things in WC3 (being frozen inside the throne, but empowering and using a DK as his champion to further his own goals in the background, while simultaneously working to bring the BL down). It seemed to set him up for something. And then the cinematic still leaked, with him suddenly having blue eyes and a blue helmet gem again. Everything seemed to point at him dropping something big.
    And then the actual cinematic released, and he was nothing more than a punching bag for Sylvanas, the helmet was ripped apart, and all of that buildup was immediatly wasted. Just like that.

    My personal theory is still that he WAS set up for something in Legion, but the plans changed sometime later. The way he was portrayed there was so fundamentally different from anything that followed.
    Even Sylvanas character changes to the point where I was seriously doubting that we were truly shown Sylvanas speaking to Anduin. She was weak, emotional and compassionate and easily pushed into talking about herself when in BfA and Legion she was strong, mysterious, reserved and harsh. In most fantasies, a surge of power does something to your brain and behaviour but it generally is in the opposite direction, it makes you unstable, irrational, distant, etc.

    But hey, writing has never been warcraft's forte, they can make cool things but they can't tell a story properly for shit. Even when they are reminded of what they did right in the past, they can't manage to reproduce it properly.

  4. #26624
    Quote Originally Posted by Skildar View Post
    Even Sylvanas character changes to the point where I was seriously doubting that we were truly shown Sylvanas speaking to Anduin. She was weak, emotional and compassionate and easily pushed into talking about herself when in BfA and Legion she was strong, mysterious, reserved and harsh. In most fantasies, a surge of power does something to your brain and behaviour but it generally is in the opposite direction, it makes you unstable, irrational, distant, etc.

    But hey, writing has never been warcraft's forte, they can make cool things but they can't tell a story properly for shit. Even when they are reminded of what they did right in the past, they can't manage to reproduce it properly.
    Damn, it must be so disappointing that generic white guy with zero characterization lost to Sylvanas. People had such high expectations for him...for some reason.

  5. #26625
    Quote Originally Posted by Skildar View Post
    Even Sylvanas character changes to the point where I was seriously doubting that we were truly shown Sylvanas speaking to Anduin. She was weak, emotional and compassionate and easily pushed into talking about herself when in BfA and Legion she was strong, mysterious, reserved and harsh. In most fantasies, a surge of power does something to your brain and behaviour but it generally is in the opposite direction, it makes you unstable, irrational, distant, etc.

    But hey, writing has never been warcraft's forte, they can make cool things but they can't tell a story properly for shit. Even when they are reminded of what they did right in the past, they can't manage to reproduce it properly.
    They can tell a good story they just can't nail an ending which is another thing extremely hard to do in long running fantasy. People get headaches over the Legion presence in WoD but before they got involved early on in the expansions life the story was hardcore as hell and fun. Pandaria is very similar lots of strong stories and unique ideas or reinvented ideas. Things like the Shado-Pan and the Iron Horde are really strong. The concept of Bastion in SL is really strong, same as Oribos. BFA presented the culture of Zandalar and Kul'tiras really well but could not tell a worthy Zandalari story to save their lives (I thought they nailed Kul'tiras Campaign though). The Dwarves in Modern WoW are also very interesting the War of Three Hammers was a great concept but in Cataclysm the idea that they merged into a council and were properly communicating again is very traditional but unique to WoW. Ironically the concepts they keep revisiting (Death, Elves, Dreadlords) are what seem to be driving the most aggravation in the community.

    Edit: I figured i'd point out what I mean by the endings. Burning Crusade had a great ending (Despite my opinion on the entire expansion), Wrath had a great ending in hindsight...as some may recall it was not loved at the time. Cataclysm had an ending so bad Dragonflight's entire main plot focused on fixing it. Pandaria got some closure in a book but continued into WoD. WoD is the same but continued into Legion. Legion had a phenomenal ending that they ruined with a cliffhanger. BFA had several strong conclusions to factions and characters and then horrendously butchered most of the rest. Shadowlands really didn't have an ending. It never really had a strong story either, very unique concept, but a really flimsy narrative. Dragonflight SO FAR has had no ending but has so far managed to stay very clear of flimsy writing and cliffhanger endings...I guess we will find out at Blizzcon if Iridikron is going to continue his antics or not.

    Edit Edit: I have alot of talking I want to do today apparently... I have always been a proponent of leaving expansions in expansions, storywise so we don't get Cataclysm yet throughout the games life cycle outside of a select few stories (Exiles Reach, Forbidden Reach) the stories continue to rely on other narratives to stand up. Shit Dragonflight is basically a direct sequel to Cataclysm.
    Last edited by Paula Deen; 2023-10-09 at 06:41 PM.

  6. #26626
    Quote Originally Posted by Paula Deen View Post
    I mean you can tell noticeably that between 9.1 and 9.2 the writing team either had a massive change or was given very specific direction. The sharp left turn in presentation was much appreciated but still jarring.

    Shout out to Zereth Mortis, redheaded step child of Modern WoW.
    Even within 9.2.
    Let's not forget that there is a main quest line that starts with Uther convincing us Sylvanas will not go insane again. Ends with Sylvanas triumphantly proclaiming she will help us inside the Sepulcher. And between that has us talk to a random enlightened broker who heroically helps us fix a teleporter.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  7. #26627
    Quote Originally Posted by Explicit Teemo Nudes View Post
    The only Old God whisper "Don't trust the eyes of green" or whatever it was. Is it already known what this is referring to? If not, could it be Erinethria?
    It's possible, but after those books were found, I'd be surprised if it's not about Eonar hiding Elun'ahir's survival from Aman'Thul. That whole scenario fits several whispers perfectly which seem to indicate that her decision backfires horribly with the Old Gods corrupting the roots.

    "Her heart is a crater and we have filled it"- There's now a literal crater representing Eonar's love for Elune, likely corrupted by the Void

    "Deeper, deeper its roots will reach. Welcoming our embrace."- self-explanatory

    Despite the book portraying Aman-Thul as the zealous bad guy, it seems like he was probably 100% right here.

  8. #26628
    Quote Originally Posted by Skildar View Post
    Even Sylvanas character changes to the point where I was seriously doubting that we were truly shown Sylvanas speaking to Anduin. She was weak, emotional and compassionate and easily pushed into talking about herself when in BfA and Legion she was strong, mysterious, reserved and harsh. In most fantasies, a surge of power does something to your brain and behaviour but it generally is in the opposite direction, it makes you unstable, irrational, distant, etc.

    But hey, writing has never been warcraft's forte, they can make cool things but they can't tell a story properly for shit. Even when they are reminded of what they did right in the past, they can't manage to reproduce it properly.
    Shame as well. Those scenes with Anduin were the best characterization we got out of him. Being so completely done with Sylvanas shit, and not even entertaining her delusion of being a put upon victim.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  9. #26629
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Damn, it must be so disappointing that generic white guy with zero characterization lost to Sylvanas. People had such high expectations for him...for some reason.
    not sure why you quote me for this oO'

  10. #26630
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Shame as well. Those scenes with Anduin were the best characterization we got out of him. Being so completely done with Sylvanas shit, and not even entertaining her delusion of being a put upon victim.
    Anduin as a character is so strong I think it was the best writing decision they made in a decade to leave him in SL and not included in the story. Its better than killing him and it allows him to be revisted (hopefully not as a villain please) when we inevitably fight some light-aligned foe.

  11. #26631
    Quote Originally Posted by Paula Deen View Post
    They can tell a good story they just can't nail an ending which is another thing extremely hard to do in long running fantasy. People get headaches over the Legion presence in WoD but before they got involved early on in the expansions life the story was hardcore as hell and fun. Pandaria is very similar lots of strong stories and unique ideas or reinvented ideas. Things like the Shado-Pan and the Iron Horde are really strong. The concept of Bastion in SL is really strong, same as Oribos. BFA presented the culture of Zandalar and Kul'tiras really well but could not tell a worthy Zandalari story to save their lives (I thought they nailed Kul'tiras Campaign though). The Dwarves in Modern WoW are also very interesting the War of Three Hammers was a great concept but in Cataclysm the idea that they merged into a council and were properly communicating again is very traditional but unique to WoW. Ironically the concepts they keep revisiting (Death, Elves, Dreadlords) are what seem to be driving the most aggravation in the community.

    Edit: I figured i'd point out what I mean by the endings. Burning Crusade had a great ending (Despite my opinion on the entire expansion), Wrath had a great ending in hindsight...as some may recall it was not loved at the time. Cataclysm had an ending so bad Dragonflight's entire main plot focused on fixing it. Pandaria got some closure in a book but continued into WoD. WoD is the same but continued into Legion. Legion had a phenomenal ending that they ruined with a cliffhanger. BFA had several strong conclusions to factions and characters and then horrendously butchered most of the rest. Shadowlands really didn't have an ending. It never really had a strong story either, very unique concept, but a really flimsy narrative. Dragonflight SO FAR has had no ending but has so far managed to stay very clear of flimsy writing and cliffhanger endings...I guess we will find out at Blizzcon if Iridikron is going to continue his antics or not.

    Edit Edit: I have alot of talking I want to do today apparently... I have always been a proponent of leaving expansions in expansions, storywise so we don't get Cataclysm yet throughout the games life cycle outside of a select few stories (Exiles Reach, Forbidden Reach) the stories continue to rely on other narratives to stand up. Shit Dragonflight is basically a direct sequel to Cataclysm.
    you're very right on that they often if not always loosing the thread as the expansion is told. And Dragonflight is quite telling of this.

  12. #26632
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
    5+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Not Azeroth
    Posts
    5,389
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldryth View Post
    It's possible, but after those books were found, I'd be surprised if it's not about Eonar hiding Elun'ahir's survival from Aman'Thul. That whole scenario fits several whispers perfectly which seem to indicate that her decision backfires horribly with the Old Gods corrupting the roots.

    "Her heart is a crater and we have filled it"- There's now a literal crater representing Eonar's love for Elune, likely corrupted by the Void

    "Deeper, deeper its roots will reach. Welcoming our embrace."- self-explanatory

    Despite the book portraying Aman-Thul as the zealous bad guy, it seems like he was probably 100% right here.
    I mean, those whispers are so vague that they can always come up with something and say that it was totally intentional. But yes, they can be used here very well.

  13. #26633
    Quote Originally Posted by Paula Deen View Post
    Edit Edit: I have alot of talking I want to do today apparently... I have always been a proponent of leaving expansions in expansions, storywise so we don't get Cataclysm yet throughout the games life cycle outside of a select few stories (Exiles Reach, Forbidden Reach) the stories continue to rely on other narratives to stand up. Shit Dragonflight is basically a direct sequel to Cataclysm.
    You know what else doesn't have endings? Treadmills. I hate to simplify WoW like that but that is what WoW has become (or has always been). It's another way to hook the player into coming back and doing the same thing every day/month/year. TV shows do it (the cliffhanger) to keep viewer retention.

    Can the stories/plots be better self contained within each expansion? Probably. And it was probably easier to do so when the lore was already established. The Lich King and Deathwing for examples. But once Blizzard started going into unchartered territory they needed more time to setup the next big bad. Unfortunately that also meant that one big bad would sometimes lead into the next big bad (Who is really pulling the strings, etc.).
    "The customer is always right" is a nice way of saying "I will put up with your bullshit as long as you pay me"

  14. #26634
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Shame as well. Those scenes with Anduin were the best characterization we got out of him. Being so completely done with Sylvanas shit, and not even entertaining her delusion of being a put upon victim.
    if only that were true but as Anduin shows maturity then he offers Sylvanas to help her and encourages her to rebel... It started well for the boy only to become embarrassing

  15. #26635
    High Overlord Nerdslime's Avatar
    5+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Icecrown Citadel
    Posts
    138
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I think if we get additional specs, we might get 3-4 support specs and that's it. I'd expect Gladiator as support dps with a shield for Warrior, Bard for Rogue and something for mage. I'd love it if Shaman or Evoker could get an earth magic tank though.
    This is what I suspect and also coincidentally what I want. Warrior throwing banners around and issuing roaring calls to battle. I think we'll see Disc priest as a support spec someday too; it needs more to set it apart.

    In my perfect world Enhancement shaman becomes a support DPS as well, and Shaman or Evoker get a mail-wearing earth-magic tank spec. Missed opportunity by Blizzard not to have made Evoker tank, heal, support (no pure RDPS) from the get-go, in my opinion. I'd love Evoker or Shaman tank tho - it'd mean we'd see some good beefy mail transmogs for Hunters to steal and it'd give Blizzard a cool opportunity especially for Evoker tanks to get tank-themed staff weapons for transmog as well! Could be neat.

    I keep getting sidetracked by my hopes for class re-designs and support integration and Im sorry

  16. #26636
    Quote Originally Posted by Paula Deen View Post
    Anduin as a character is so strong I think it was the best writing decision they made in a decade to leave him in SL and not included in the story. Its better than killing him and it allows him to be revisted (hopefully not as a villain please) when we inevitably fight some light-aligned foe.
    Anduin as a character should be so good, but BfA completely fucked his character.
    The version of Anduin we saw in Legion was one of the best characters the game has had in years.
    Even if it was just a brief questline, having him grapple with his pacifist ways clashing with an existential threat made for some prime drama.

    Hopefully once Anduin returns from wherever we can have the writers give him some actual good storylines. His relationship with the light is absolutely a fruitful well for the story to draw from.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  17. #26637
    Quote Originally Posted by Redwyrm View Post
    You know what else doesn't have endings? Treadmills. I hate to simplify WoW like that but that is what WoW has become (or has always been). It's another way to hook the player into coming back and doing the same thing every day/month/year. TV shows do it (the cliffhanger) to keep viewer retention.

    Can the stories/plots be better self contained within each expansion? Probably. And it was probably easier to do so when the lore was already established. The Lich King and Deathwing for examples. But once Blizzard started going into unchartered territory they needed more time to setup the next big bad. Unfortunately that also meant that one big bad would sometimes lead into the next big bad (Who is really pulling the strings, etc.).
    Its lazy. It isn't necessarily bad. I would actually take zero issue with the treadmill as a concept if they did a good job of at least catching people up. ESO is bad about this too, so is Final Fantasy. Guild Wars 2 is a different kind of game though.

    ESO had to follow a player made chronological quest order chart for most things it helped WONDERS in making the game enjoyable too.
    FFXIV knows the average MMO player is a crack addict and doesn't give the player a choice. They either start from the beginning or they don't play. (Admirable tbh)
    WoW is unplayable like ESO. There is no reward besides achievements for doing a chronological run of the game and you can't even properly do a run like that even if you want to BECAUSE of Cataclysm. Some really simple changes could drastically change how confusing WoW is to a new player, instead Blizzard just lazily slaps on Party Sync/Chromie Time for people who probably already played the fucking game and tells New Players to start 5 years back IRL and 12 years into the games entire story with ZERO lore primers or stories. Its inexcusably bad.

  18. #26638
    Ysera is technically already dead and we knew her situation was probably temporary.

    I don't think she needs to get killed again. It will probably be more of a passing of the torch moment when they realize they need the overpowered alliance chicken god back.

  19. #26639
    Quote Originally Posted by ImTheMizAwesome View Post
    Was there something related to Wotlk ICC datamined?

    I guess promotion might be just tied to opening of ICC, which is big thing for classic players.
    Arfus the dog is in both Classic and Retail I believe. It's probably that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    It's undoubtedly the Virtual Ticket going on sale. Typically it goes up a full month before blizzcon so we're behind.
    How far before expansions go up do you think they get planned? It's definitely the firing of Afrasiabi in june 2020 if its anything.
    I don't think there is going to be a paid Virtual Ticket this year. The previous announcement made it sound like all panels will be streamed free.

    We'll be able to buy a BlizzCon bundle of in-game stuff, but yeah.

  20. #26640
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerdslime View Post
    This is what I suspect and also coincidentally what I want. Warrior throwing banners around and issuing roaring calls to battle. I think we'll see Disc priest as a support spec someday too; it needs more to set it apart.

    In my perfect world Enhancement shaman becomes a support DPS as well, and Shaman or Evoker get a mail-wearing earth-magic tank spec. Missed opportunity by Blizzard not to have made Evoker tank, heal, support (no pure RDPS) from the get-go, in my opinion. I'd love Evoker or Shaman tank tho - it'd mean we'd see some good beefy mail transmogs for Hunters to steal and it'd give Blizzard a cool opportunity especially for Evoker tanks to get tank-themed staff weapons for transmog as well! Could be neat.

    I keep getting sidetracked by my hopes for class re-designs and support integration and Im sorry
    They've finally managed to bring back enhancement shamans to a good place, as they've stated they will not alter their role (and they shouldn't).
    I don't want another support spec in the game for now, it would be very cumbersome to manage balancing and they are still figuring it out with just augmentation evoker. (cf. their many changes in 10.2)

    There are already a good amount of tanks and healers in the game, I'm not opposed to more. I would put in my top priorities new mechanics for tanks that would make them more entertaining to play and less a I need to perfect the route of the dungeon and not fall asleep when doing raid boss fights

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •