1. #26981
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    It's not just that. It's admitting fault. Attempting to convince players the writers can do better in Classic+. And also having to explain why you don't have that wel written expansion for Retail.
    And also telling people that "Hey, the last decade and a half you invested your time in our game doesn't really matter"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by NikolaiShade View Post
    I mean it is a good idea if you think about it. They should simply say: Retail is our test game, if we f**k up retail expansions (and we will) we get a free redo in our Classic+ expansions.... Logic at its finest


    Edit: And all this in a game with 20 year old graphics (maybe), so pretty easy to market don't you think?
    I do hope you are joking. If they did that at Blizzcon, they better have a way to get off the stage fast. I'd throw a chair.

  2. #26982
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
    5+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Not Azeroth
    Posts
    5,389
    Quote Originally Posted by NikolaiShade View Post
    The concept of Classic+ changes constantly but always boils down to Blizzard admitting they have f***ed up and so are redoing the timeline. One thing is constant, should Blizzard ever decide to implement Classic+, they would never introduce it like someone is hoping and basically many would not be happy about it

    Edit: btw shoouldn't classic keep the old models? otherwise it's not classic anymore is WoW 1.5
    Yes, it won't be Classic. People just haven't come up with a better name for it so they keep calling it Classic+.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    What will happen to the Retail players that want to play WoW: WWE, but doesnt want to commit ot Classic+/have a character? Because you know it will happen.
    I mean it is the same service account so some character transfer should be possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    The dream scenario is a complete world revamp (well, Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms) for retail, as well as a brand new RPG set in the Warcraft universe.

    Oh, I forgot to add some type of Warcraft 3: Reforged update to my list. But anyway.
    Oh a Re-Reforged needs to happen at some point for sure.

  3. #26983
    Quote Originally Posted by NikolaiShade View Post
    The concept of Classic+ changes constantly but always boils down to Blizzard admitting they have f***ed up and so are redoing the timeline. One thing is constant, should Blizzard ever decide to implement Classic+, they would never introduce it like someone is hoping and basically many would not be happy about it

    Edit: btw shoouldn't classic keep the old models? otherwise it's not classic anymore is WoW 1.5
    What is this obsession people have with Classic+? This is becoming the new "World Revamp next expansion for sure bro!" or "Tinker next expansion bro!".
    People wanted Classic because of the way it was, and now suddenly they want more stuff added to classic, removing the concept of.. you guessed it! Classic.

    I will never understand that logic. First advocate "OMG #nochanges!!!" and then a few months later "OMG we demand more content!!!" One of these things is not like the other.

    Note; I am not attacking you! I am not saying you are one of those, but it just confuses the hell out of me

  4. #26984
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
    5+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Not Azeroth
    Posts
    5,389
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    And also telling people that "Hey, the last decade and a half you invested your time in our game doesn't really matter"
    It still matters to those who prefer Retail. It's not like it is going anywhere.

  5. #26985
    Elemental Lord
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    8,319
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    This is the somewhat realistic? What is your wishlit, my dude?
    Classic+ as new endgame content post Naxxramas or even.. alternative expansion are totally ridicolous ideas. Barely anyone reach that far.

    Classic is strongest at the beginning. Only sensible thing to do with Classic Era is improving leveling experience (especially around 20-50 level) and launch it as Season 2 with normal and hardcore servers. Could be new quests, mobs, hell maybe even extra zone, but it can't be "oh, finish all that 20th year old shit AGAIN before you even touch new content".

    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    It's not just that. It's admitting fault. Attempting to convince players the writers can do better in Classic+. And also having to explain why you don't have that wel written expansion for Retail.
    Even better, it would be turned to "Danuser thinks he can write better history than MAGNIFICENT TBC and Wrath".
    Last edited by Dracullus; 2023-10-10 at 03:04 PM.

  6. #26986
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
    5+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Not Azeroth
    Posts
    5,389
    Quote Originally Posted by lanerios View Post
    What is this obsession people have with Classic+? This is becoming the new "World Revamp next expansion for sure bro!" or "Tinker next expansion bro!".
    People wanted Classic because of the way it was, and now suddenly they want more stuff added to classic, removing the concept of.. you guessed it! Classic.

    I will never understand that logic. First advocate "OMG #nochanges!!!" and then a few months later "OMG we demand more content!!!" One of these things is not like the other.

    Note; I am not attacking you! I am not saying you are one of those, but it just confuses the hell out of me
    A few things.

    1. It might not be the same people
    2. Some people just don't like the direction retail took and want to retcon WoD and/or SL away.
    3. Plenty of people still wan a world revamp. Chances are a Classic+ alternate scenario where the Cataclysm didn't happen would look a lot different than Azeroth revamped post Dragonflight.

  7. #26987
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    It still matters to those who prefer Retail. It's not like it is going anywhere.
    No, you are just told the timeline you are playing in is bad and you should feel bad.

  8. #26988
    Quote Originally Posted by NikolaiShade View Post
    I mean it is a good idea if you think about it. They should simply say: Retail is our test game, if we f**k up retail expansions (and we will) we get a free redo in our Classic+ expansions.... Logic at its finest


    Edit: And all this in a game with 20 year old graphics (maybe), so pretty easy to market don't you think?
    Everyone knows that Blizzard always fixes the mistakes they made in an expansion as soon as possible. Just look at how much better Azerite Armor was compared to all the obvious flaws of Artifacts.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  9. #26989
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I do hope you are joking. If they did that at Blizzcon, they better have a way to get off the stage fast. I'd throw a chair.
    Of course I was joking. The idea to import some features from retail into classic could even be a not so bad idea, but imagining Blizzard would develop 2 different expansions for two different games (in the end classic and retail are not the same game from a developing/programming standpoint) at the same time and hoping people would be happy about it is a little crazy. Not taking into account the overall quality of the projects, can you imagine the moment classic+ gets a feature retail doesn't have what would happen? Let's say Ogres are added to Classic+ it would be a blood bath

  10. #26990
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
    5+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Not Azeroth
    Posts
    5,389
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Classic+ as new endgame content post Naxxramas or even.. alternative expansion are totally ridicolous ideas. Barely anyone reach that far.

    Classic is strongest at the beginning. Only sensible thing to do with Classic Era is improving leveling experience (especially around 20-50 level) and launch it as Season 2 with normal and hardcore servers. Could be new quests, mobs, hell maybe even extra zone, but it can't be "oh, finish all that 20th year old shit AGAIN before you even touch new content".
    Are you sure this is the comment you wanted to reply to?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    No, you are just told the timeline you are playing in is bad and you should feel bad.
    I've seen people here defend every shitty decision by Blizzard. If you think that would phase people you are delusional. Sorry.

  11. #26991
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    A few things.

    1. It might not be the same people
    2. Some people just don't like the direction retail took and want to retcon WoD and/or SL away.
    3. Plenty of people still wan a world revamp. Chances are a Classic+ alternate scenario where the Cataclysm didn't happen would look a lot different than Azeroth revamped post Dragonflight.
    At that point they might as well just remake the expansions and pitch them as new content. Like what someone said for a time travelling expansion set right after Vanilla.

    Just have an expansion where you go back in time and go to Outland, except all the writing flaws are remedied, and the gameplay is much smoother, along with the gear looking much better.

    Honestly you could do this with every expansion and some would probably be absolute goldmines.
    Cataclysm without the lack of endgame. MoP without the post SoO drought. WoD with actual content. BfA with a competently told story. etc.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  12. #26992
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post

    I've seen people here defend every shitty decision by Blizzard. If you think that would phase people you are delusional. Sorry.
    Look, Felplague will tell us how it is completely normal and we are all idiots to be angry but the fact that it would not phase everyone does not mean it would phase a lot of people. Unless you think Warcraft has been going steady with no fumbles and no impact in the player base . . .

  13. #26993
    Quote Originally Posted by lanerios View Post
    What is this obsession people have with Classic+? This is becoming the new "World Revamp next expansion for sure bro!" or "Tinker next expansion bro!".
    People wanted Classic because of the way it was, and now suddenly they want more stuff added to classic, removing the concept of.. you guessed it! Classic.

    I will never understand that logic. First advocate "OMG #nochanges!!!" and then a few months later "OMG we demand more content!!!" One of these things is not like the other.

    Note; I am not attacking you! I am not saying you are one of those, but it just confuses the hell out of me

    You’re wrong, ppl always wanted classic+. Theres famous example online, wont name them. Adding old scrapped content doesnt make it less classic. What is classic is the feeling, the graphics, the ambiance, the leveling. Thats it

    As long as Blizzard keep this things while adding zones like hyjal, quel’thalas tel abim etc. Its alright

  14. #26994
    Quote Originally Posted by lanerios View Post
    What is this obsession people have with Classic+? This is becoming the new "World Revamp next expansion for sure bro!" or "Tinker next expansion bro!".
    People wanted Classic because of the way it was, and now suddenly they want more stuff added to classic, removing the concept of.. you guessed it! Classic.

    I will never understand that logic. First advocate "OMG #nochanges!!!" and then a few months later "OMG we demand more content!!!" One of these things is not like the other.

    Note; I am not attacking you! I am not saying you are one of those, but it just confuses the hell out of me
    Classic was a good experiment, I alays loved history and going to museums is one of the first things I do when I travel in other countries, so I can appreciate the idea of keeping Classic as a sort of "exhibition" about WoW origins. then they made TBC and Wrath servers, then hardcore and season of mastery, now Cata or Classic+... It's just a nostalgia fest without much reason (other than financial ones).

  15. #26995
    Quote Originally Posted by Woggmer View Post
    Okay.. so I looked at the list of promotional achievements that were leaked.

    Confirmed: Ysergle the Dreamurk, Lil' Maggz, and Lil' Frostwing (Putting this one in spoiler because it seems like the next promotional item for this week. Found out based on a search in Wowhead.) Along with all the Mini Rumble figure stuff as part of the Rumble promotional event.

    Yet to be revealed: S.A.F.E, Survey Bot, Storm Rider: (Bronze, Silver, and Gold), Squally (likely the new expansion battle pet), Fyrn, and finally [Heroic Edition]: Algarian Stormrider.

    S.A.F.E could be related to Warcraft Rumble's launch (or if by chance it is related to something IN WoW, one can only assume it'll involve gnomes or Gnomergan)
    Storm Rider: (Bronze, Silver, and Gold) could be in relation to a race, but where it is remains to be seen.
    Squally and the Algarian Stormrider could be connected to the next expansion, (with Squally being the Pre-Order Bonus). [Still no clue on what the expansion's theme will be.]

    This just only leaves the Survey Bot and Fyrn as complete mysteries.
    We have some additional hints;

    Both the S.A.F.E Pilot and Survey Bot battle pets are old and were added in 9.2.0 PTR (but key was made around/between 9.1/9.1.5 PTR), the same patch as the BlizzCon 2023 mount that came out yesterday, so they are unlikely to have to do anything with future content, at least not in a manner that could have been intended at the time.

    The Fyrn battle pet and "unknown mount A" (no achievement leaked for that one) share several assets that are also shared by other models with a "windy" theme (air/storm elementals, primalist wind totems, some wind spells), so that is indicative for a theme as well as a relation between the two even though they are encrypted under separate keys.

    The Storm Rider achievements (and the likely 6 dragon races for it), Squally and Algarian Stormrider share an encryption key that also has a character boost, multiple in-game store assets and other things usual for what would be an encrypted package to release when expansion pre-orders come out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadochi View Post
    As for my worldbuilding. I've been doing worldbuilding and writing for like 15ish years (tho never finished anything but hopefully changing that in the near-to-moderate future). But outside of that I'm currently using the world (and universe) I created to run various D&D and Pathfinder campaigns and oneshots (think so far I had 4-5 campaigns, 3 currently ongoing), and a bunch of oneshots or short stories that last a couple sessions. So come November (NaNoWriMo - National Novel Writing Month) I plan on finally writing something however bad the first draft may be from start to finish). As for the theme of the worldbuilding, on a cosmic scale it has both fantasy and scifi, but for the world where the campaigns take place its mostly high and dark fantasy with some scifi sometimes seeping in (wasn't originally the plan but happened based on player choices).
    That sounds awesome, do drop us a note or add it to your signature or something when you have something to show off.
    Last edited by Marlamin; 2023-10-10 at 03:11 PM.

  16. #26996
    Quote Originally Posted by NikolaiShade View Post
    Let's say Ogres are added to Classic+ it would be a blood bath
    Oh yeah, it would be a bloodbath, i think i would just spit on my screen at whoevers is on stage "presenting" this bad idea, even tho i would have to clean it later.

    Im also not really aboard on these "classic+" ideas.
    Last edited by ImTheMizAwesome; 2023-10-10 at 03:11 PM.

  17. #26997
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
    5+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Not Azeroth
    Posts
    5,389
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Look, Felplague will tell us how it is completely normal and we are all idiots to be angry but the fact that it would not phase everyone does not mean it would phase a lot of people. Unless you think Warcraft has been going steady with no fumbles and no impact in the player base . . .
    This is a rhetorical question and we both know it. You are talkin about a guy with Emet-Selch for a profile pic.
    I'm just saying Blizzard is prone to half arsed measures and there are plenty of people who follow them regardless. Good patch cadence is all it takes for them to be forgiven.

  18. #26998
    Blizz could easily fix WC3 if they just put a team on it and gave them a few months. But of course during that time they ain't making money so...

  19. #26999
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Classic+ as new endgame content post Naxxramas or even.. alternative expansion are totally ridicolous ideas. Barely anyone reach that far.

    Classic is strongest at the beginning. Only sensible thing to do with Classic Era is improving leveling experience (especially around 20-50 level) and launch it as Season 2 with normal and hardcore servers. Could be new quests, mobs, hell maybe even extra zone, but it can't be "oh, finish all that 20th year old shit AGAIN before you even touch new content".
    As I said above. You either have the Cataclysm problem of 80% of the new content requiring levelling a new character to experience properly. Or it's the TBC problem of making all the old content obsolete.
    A problem even more so in Classic, where Transmog is not a thing, and cosmetic collections are massively hamstrumg by adhering to old ways of doing things.

    At that point, just make them in Retail where you have more options for experimental gameplay modes. As an example an enhanced version of Chromie Time that makes the gameplay much more old fashioned.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  20. #27000
    Runescape is your closest comparison for how two diverging games might play out, and even that comparison isn't great. OSRS eclipsed RS3 ages ago and is undoubtedly the main game now between the two, but I'd argue Runescape circa 2004 and RS3 are more fundamentally different games than vanilla WoW and modern retail are. Furthermore, the more sandbox nature of RS's design makes it easier to integrate new content into without totally obsoleting existing content. WoW would need a fundamental design shift to not just go down the road of Classic+ essentially being a take two and praying the existing expansion system still works.

    I think it's a far riskier proposition than some expect. OSRS was able to succeed in part because it had an extremely dedicated team from the jump that had a considerable amount of goodwill with the community that they were careful to maintain. One of these devs was filling the roles of game designer, quest designer/writer, and composer simultaneously at one point. I'm not sure if Blizzard has staff that could fill similar shoes and have enough goodwill with the community to act unfettered. Imagining WoW being developed with the polling system would be quite the sight, though.

    Incidentally, while the RS split was almost entirely gameplay-focused, RS3 was in the midst of having the players pal around with gods and cosmic entities and sending the power creep and scope through the roof, while OSRS avoided going down that same path with its new story content (thus far) and deliberately kept its writing more grounded and lower scale in comparison. Food for thought!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •