1. #30421
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    The problem is that the community is not at all united in regards to what is the right direction. I don't miss the factions at all and hope they stay away from them, for one.

    And i think that "WoW is softer" is quite a bit a case of selective perception and confirmation bias. There were some pretty drastic events in DF that don't really get the attention they should. Similarly, dragons are "too nice" compared to a very babaric view of them that doesn't really make much sense to begin with. The complaint isn't that they don't fit established dragons in WoW. It's that they don't fit what the person thinks dragons should be in general, regardless of whether that'd make sense in context.
    But this is true for specific feedback as well. Not everyone is going to agree with it. It doesn't make it any less valuable.

  2. #30422
    Stood in the Fire Dragon ANX's Avatar
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    For me, Dragonfight lore is good, but that's about it. There have been no cool and exciting moments and it has been this way since SL, to be honest (SL lore was garbage). I think every good lore has to have some 'touching and soft' moments, but DF has too much of it and basically no 'BRUUUUUUHHHH LET'S GOOOO' moment, which leads to a boring and lethargic feeling.
    That is how i and most of my friends are feeling like.

  3. #30423
    Warchief Catastrophy349's Avatar
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    Let's get this conversation back on track. Where does the story go from here (can be 10.2, 10.2+, or 11.0/11.0+)?

  4. #30424
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon ANX View Post
    For me, Dragonfight lore is good, but that's about it. There have been no cool and exciting moments and it has been this way since SL, to be honest (SL lore was garbage). I think every good lore has to have some 'touching and soft' moments, but DF has too much of it and basically no 'BRUUUUUUHHHH LET'S GOOOO' moment, which leads to a boring and lethargic feeling.
    That is how i and most of my friends are feeling like.
    the snoozer

  5. #30425
    Quote Originally Posted by Trad skeleton View Post
    I mentioned this a little earlier in the thread once wowhead posted the Q'onzu quest line. I'm not sure how long the Q'onzu quest line has been on the PTR. If it was the whole cycle, maybe that person was really clever and spun it together before it was more widely known.

    It's a cool idea to think about, though, either way. He returned to the dream and started going by loa instead of Wild God. Maybe he found Trolls / some form of Trolls / Troll ancestor race elsewhere and was dubbed as loa and it's a hint, like the leak suggests with the Troll / Elf common ancestor.
    I don't know the leaker also said the dungeon is called "Freezepeak", which is I assume where those freeze peach trees grow. I know Blizzard likes their puns and pop culture references, but I don't think that's it.
    Samin
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashrana View Post
    So, what would be your reaction, if you found out, that come cata release first patch, blizzard were planning to kill everyone by sending a bear through the mail?

  6. #30426
    Quote Originally Posted by Catastrophy349 View Post
    Let's get this conversation back on track. Where does the story go from here (can be 10.2, 10.2+, or 11.0/11.0+)?
    They keep using the term "turning point" in recent interviews, which I'm not sure what the is referring to. Turning point meaning we defeat Fyrakk and the battle against the Primalists (not Incarnates) is won? Or turning point in meaning that there's a big twist at the end of the raid and there's more danger in store for us than there is victory?

  7. #30427
    Quote Originally Posted by Trad skeleton View Post
    I mentioned this a little earlier in the thread once wowhead posted the Q'onzu quest line. I'm not sure how long the Q'onzu quest line has been on the PTR. If it was the whole cycle, maybe that person was really clever and spun it together before it was more widely known.

    It's a cool idea to think about, though, either way. He returned to the dream and started going by loa instead of Wild God. Maybe he found Trolls / some form of Trolls / Troll ancestor race elsewhere and was dubbed as loa and it's a hint, like the leak suggests with the Troll / Elf common ancestor.
    I don't think anything about Q'onzu was present on the PTR back in July, but I could be wrong.

    There are other things that Wowhead has dug up that might be relevant, like the "Sentinel of the New Moon".

    There's a theory that Q'onzu could be related to Lo'sho - the second moon. A secondary moon god for a secondary moon.
    Q'onzu might identify as a loa simply because they are ancient enough that their worshippers were trolls. Q'onzu also may have dug out of the Dream. If they dug out, maybe they came out in Avaloren.

  8. #30428
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    I honestly also feel like they've arrived at a point where WoW has two different demographics. Those who want this retail hype train to keep going and see where it takes us (plus addicted to their collections, friend groups, etc), and those who just want traditional Warcraft content.

    Like Ion said in that interview: woopsie, we kinda used all the old content and now we're stuck in a corner (paraphrasing).

    In other words, it's now worth splitting up the playerbase, because they can better cater to each segment by doing so. The alternative is alienating one of them, and losing a bunch of subs once Classic hype subsides.

    Let there be "World of Warcraft" for those who just want orcs and human smashing skulls in Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms, and "World of Warcraft: Whatever's Next" for those who want to keep moving towards cosmic lore and what not.
    That's a bit reductive. There are two distinct halves of the playerbase in terms of what they want, but it's hardly two homogenous masses.
    One side wants out there rule of cool stuff like K'aresh. The other wants generally more grounded stuff with focus on characters.
    The problem is that you cannot simultaneously cater to both unless you go all the way and develop two sets of expansions concurrently.

    Currently they are seemingly going to try to replicate Legion which was a nice compromise. You start with a solid foundation of basic stuff, and then slowly escalate until you have the out there stuff by the end.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  9. #30429
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Real life history?
    I'm not fully disagreeing with your thoughts here but there is a certain point when the amount of retconning to surface level and then foundational elements becomes so extensive, and then begins to happen so frequently, that it is difficult for me to become attached to any new story elements, or to want to discuss them.

    I don't want to necessarily derail this further, but something that really bothers me is how homogenized the schools of magic have become. It seems like any element or force can have some analogue of resurrection.

    I really want the next expansion to be a sort of "let's just hold on a moment and figure out what we're doing here narratively because this is just a bunch of cats running in every direction."
    Last edited by Magistrate; 2023-10-17 at 10:19 PM.

  10. #30430
    Quote Originally Posted by GhostFish View Post
    I don't think anything about Q'onzu was present on the PTR back in July, but I could be wrong.

    There are other things that Wowhead has dug up that might be relevant, like the "Sentinel of the New Moon".

    There's a theory that Q'onzu could be related to Lo'sho - the second moon. A secondary moon god for a secondary moon.
    Q'onzu might identify as a loa simply because they are ancient enough that their worshippers were trolls. Q'onzu also may have dug out of the Dream. If they dug out, maybe they came out in Avaloren.
    I kind of assume that it's just a lucky guess.

    "Moon Loa" makes it sound like they are really just worshipping Elune, but non-deep Lore folks wouldn't really know the Trolls don't consider Elune a Loa.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Catastrophy349 View Post
    Let's get this conversation back on track. Where does the story go from here (can be 10.2, 10.2+, or 11.0/11.0+)?
    I'm leaning more and more towards Amirdrassil starting the events of a World revamp.

    And, well. It also poses an interesting moment where we see the Forces of Life get a solid grip on Azeroth in a way that isn't ordered by the Titans. It could have some pretty neat implications. Maybe the world revamp sets us up for the next continent. Maybe something happens when the Tree shifts into Azeroth and rejuvenates the planet, and it clears Titan safeguards. Like, say, storms keeping people out of a certain area.

  11. #30431
    Quote Originally Posted by flan1337 View Post
    that leak reminds me of the original expansion leak list anytime I see K'aresh mentioned.

    https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards...craft/72430500
    Originally posted on Allakhazam, that was the first well-crafted fake "leak", with the bonus that it didn't predict a soon-to-be-announced expansion, but instead claimed to be an early expansion progression outline, coming out just after the WotLK announcement so it could retroactively 'predict' BC and WotLK "before changes" (but weirdly included the two starting zones of Northrend, which was a lesson learned from the BC launch)
    I actually participated in debunking this, on MMO-C and over there (page six, search for "arguments") and younger me liked to believe I contributed to Reinjin eventually admitting it was fake, a while after Cata was announced, I think.

    But it already had all the necessary elements, a mix of educated guesses and what players wanted to see, and people ignoring the obvious hints that it was fake because they liked it.
    And since it was written in a way that future expansions would not naturally debunk it ("plans have changed over the years") it was very persistent even after being officially debunked.
    Some would swear they had seen that list during Vanilla already, which led to me researching (read: perusing 2-3 articles on) how memory can be very subjective, see the Mandela Effect, and I recall an example of how Reagan told a scene from a movie (not even one he acted in) as his own WW2 memory.
    But your duty to Azeroth is not yet complete. More is demanded of you... a price the living cannot pay.

  12. #30432
    Scarab Lord ercarp's Avatar
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    Am I the only one here who's more or less completely in the dark about the storyline of Dragonflight?

    I didn't even know who Iridikron was until earlier today. I had to look it up.

    I'm super excited for 11.0 but I haven't had much interest in keeping up with the overarching story of Dragonflight. I did the quests for all of the zones in 10.0 and I enjoyed them, but past that, I have no idea what's going on.

  13. #30433
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferlion View Post
    I kind of assume that it's just a lucky guess.

    "Moon Loa" makes it sound like they are really just worshipping Elune, but non-deep Lore folks wouldn't really know the Trolls don't consider Elune a Loa.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I'm leaning more and more towards Amirdrassil starting the events of a World revamp.

    And, well. It also poses an interesting moment where we see the Forces of Life get a solid grip on Azeroth in a way that isn't ordered by the Titans. It could have some pretty neat implications. Maybe the world revamp sets us up for the next continent. Maybe something happens when the Tree shifts into Azeroth and rejuvenates the planet, and it clears Titan safeguards. Like, say, storms keeping people out of a certain area.
    You don't want the forces of life taking over Azeroth. That's how you get super Botani.

  14. #30434
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferlion View Post
    I kind of assume that it's just a lucky guess.

    "Moon Loa" makes it sound like they are really just worshipping Elune, but non-deep Lore folks wouldn't really know the Trolls don't consider Elune a Loa.
    There are the Lun'alai.

  15. #30435
    Epic! Merryck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ercarp View Post
    Am I the only one here who's more or less completely in the dark about the storyline of Dragonflight?

    I didn't even know who Iridikron was until earlier today. I had to look it up.

    I'm super excited for 11.0 but I haven't had much interest in keeping up with the overarching story of Dragonflight. I did the quests for all of the zones in 10.0 and I enjoyed them, but past that, I have no idea what's going on.
    Most of the story is hidden behind side quests, like the Tyr stuff.

  16. #30436
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merryck View Post
    You don't want the forces of life taking over Azeroth. That's how you get super Botani.
    We'd get lifeforce if we let the Titans in too, according to Soridormi.


    An expansion concept based on K'aresh
    #TeamK'aresh #TeamWorldRevamp

  17. #30437
    they need to get rid of this "unreliable narrator" crap. there is no worldbuilding if they can pull this shit whenever they want.

  18. #30438
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    That's a bit reductive. There are two distinct halves of the playerbase in terms of what they want, but it's hardly two homogenous masses.
    One side wants out there rule of cool stuff like K'aresh. The other wants generally more grounded stuff with focus on characters.
    The problem is that you cannot simultaneously cater to both unless you go all the way and develop two sets of expansions concurrently.

    Currently they are seemingly going to try to replicate Legion which was a nice compromise. You start with a solid foundation of basic stuff, and then slowly escalate until you have the out there stuff by the end.
    Quarterly seasons/DLCs are enough for Classic+.

  19. #30439
    Epic! Merryck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azalar View Post
    We'd get lifeforce if we let the Titans in too, according to Soridormi.

    I forgot about that ... Really strange.

  20. #30440
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merryck View Post
    I forgot about that ... Really strange.
    Not entirely strange if you bring Elune and Eonar into the equation and Freya doing Eonar's work on her behalf while Aman'thul isn't watching.

    An expansion concept based on K'aresh
    #TeamK'aresh #TeamWorldRevamp

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