1. #4061
    As much as I love planting my Alliance banner on dead, smelly hordes, sometimes I just don't feel like doing PvP, and want to play relaxed. After all, it's just a game. Being forced to do something you don't feel like just because you happened to pick a PvP server years ago is beyond stupid. That sole reason makes War Mode superior, in my eyes.
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  2. #4062
    Dreadlord Berkilak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GabrielKnight View Post
    As much as I love planting my Alliance banner on dead, smelly hordes, sometimes I just don't feel like doing PvP, and want to play relaxed. After all, it's just a game. Being forced to do something you don't feel like just because you happened to pick a PvP server years ago is beyond stupid. That sole reason makes War Mode superior, in my eyes.
    I'm in complete agreement. But I won't pretend that we didn't lose something with that change. Overall, it balances out to beneficial. But there was a sacrifice there.

  3. #4063
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkilak View Post
    Like I said, opting out is the only solution people actually use. It's not organic and entirely predictable. On paper, you should still be able to have those encounters. There's nothing stopping you. But in reality, people just turn off PvP mode when PvP happens.
    Ya that's still no different then just being on a Pvp server people would just log off instead of turning off warmode.
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  4. #4064
    Dreadlord Berkilak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Ya that's still no different then just being on a Pvp server people would just log off instead of turning off warmode.
    Some would, I'm sure. Not even close to all. If I wasn't raiding, I was generally responding to calls for help. Hearth set to STV. And meeting up with people from other groups having the same issues. I can only speak to my own experiences, of course, but from my perspective, world PvP was absolutely organic. I suppose the loss of server identity also feeds into this and the propensity of servers to host imbalanced factions. Back then, you would know where and when to avoid certain areas, or where to go for a fight. It's all meaningless now. Zones felt like actual places. They're just another randomly populated instance, now, if not glorified.

  5. #4065
    World PvP was high level people ganking low level people until someone brought their high level character and then it was just awkward ganking of other low level people.

  6. #4066
    world pvp is so unbalan ed there is no fun for some classes and specs. Having the option to opt in or out of wm solve the demand for balancing this activity

  7. #4067
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    War Mode was one of the best features they've added outside of fringe cases of slightly affecting RPers.

    Just pretend fight lol
    I would argue against this—the demise of RP-PVP was pretty unpleasant, and it really took away what I think was the closest gameplay to the original story of WarCraft. Why shouldn't an RPG about war feature conflicts between players in the open world framed through roleplay?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkilak View Post
    That's a good point. Good open world PvP is organic and unpredictable. War mode is just opting in to ganking or being ganked, neither of which appeals to many. Even people that would otherwise enjoy a good fight in the right circumstances.
    I do quite miss that—its loss really diminished the quality of the world and general enjoyability of the game.

  8. #4068
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    Even awesome features have some disadvantages and always someone is bitching about them. Imo War Mode is among features like Flex raids, Group Finder, M+ and Dragonriding - so not new content, but key improvement that got integrated with game very fast.

    Countless people were stuck on PVP servers - they picked it long time ago, their friends are here, they don't want PVP on alts or during leveling, finally lot of people sometimes want to do PVP, sometimes not. Now we have freedom.

    Of course it's not like Blizzard is doing great job with encouraging people to do WM, SL was horrible from start to finish, DF on launch was fine for WM players, but at this point it's almost dead feature. Personally I would revamp WM ON into some kind of Heroic mode for world, with PVP, tougher enemies, no regular flying (dragonriding is ok as it doesn't let you afk in the air) and unique rewards both for max and leveling (for doing 1-max without turning it off).

  9. #4069
    Quote Originally Posted by Berkilak View Post
    Some would, I'm sure. Not even close to all. If I wasn't raiding, I was generally responding to calls for help. Hearth set to STV. And meeting up with people from other groups having the same issues. I can only speak to my own experiences, of course, but from my perspective, world PvP was absolutely organic. I suppose the loss of server identity also feeds into this and the propensity of servers to host imbalanced factions. Back then, you would know where and when to avoid certain areas, or where to go for a fight. It's all meaningless now. Zones felt like actual places. They're just another randomly populated instance, now, if not glorified.
    It is extremely close to all. To begin with easily 95%+ of all world PvP is (and has always been) just a high level player one shotting a low level player and then continuing onwards. On the rare occasion where someone is being camped, and we are already talking about single digit percentages here, the majority solution is to run back to log out, run back to town and log out, or hearth and log out.

    Escalation is an insignificant rarity. Even with that tiny sliver, most "escalation" is people saying "Hey theres a level # <class> killing people at <location>" and the someone who happens to be higher in the zone walking over, killing that person once or twice and then the ganker themselves logging off, or hearthing or going off to some other zone.

    War Mode's assassin/bounty system and drops alone contribute more to dynamic escalation than calling for help or switching over to a main ever did.

  10. #4070
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Even awesome features have some disadvantages and always someone is bitching about them. Imo War Mode is among features like Flex raids, Group Finder, M+ and Dragonriding - so not new content, but key improvement that got integrated with game very fast.

    Countless people were stuck on PVP servers - they picked it long time ago, their friends are here, they don't want PVP on alts or during leveling, finally lot of people sometimes want to do PVP, sometimes not. Now we have freedom.

    Of course it's not like Blizzard is doing great job with encouraging people to do WM, SL was horrible from start to finish, DF on launch was fine for WM players, but at this point it's almost dead feature. Personally I would revamp WM ON into some kind of Heroic mode for world, with PVP, tougher enemies, no regular flying (dragonriding is ok as it doesn't let you afk in the air) and unique rewards both for max and leveling (for doing 1-max without turning it off).
    I think the issue is that War Mode just came too late and it is no longer supported thematically. We are supposed to be in a truce after all. Beyond that, SL barely rewarded War Mode (DF had some ok rewards early on) and neither expac had much content; at least DF brought supply crates back. Even BfA which has so much War mode content still failed to invest in it; pvp depends a lot on terrain and the terrain used was designed for PvE and world building with no optimization whatsoever for War Mode (Naz'jatar PvP only really worked because the two towns were so close to each other).

  11. #4071
    I think World PVP is a lost cause at this point because whatever Blizzard comes up with will have flaws.

    Personally, I think removing War Mode in favor of random PVP events would be better, but even then people would complain they cannot complete a Quest/World Quest/or any other activity because there's a PVP event happening in the area enabling PVP to everyone.

  12. #4072
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I think the issue is that War Mode just came too late and it is no longer supported thematically. We are supposed to be in a truce after all.
    Some of your forget it's video game not same real war between Orcs and Humans, it's not like world PVP is forbidden while we have peace in lore xD.

    "Too late" <- what that even mean, game is constantly evolving, we can't have good changes anymore or something cause game is old? No offence, but "too late" sounds typical first comment in wowhead/here to every positive change in WoW.

  13. #4073
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Some of your forget it's video game not same real war between Orcs and Humans, it's not like world PVP is forbidden while we have peace in lore xD.
    Theme still drives player behaviour. If every quest tells players we are at war, they will be more likely to try faction PvP. You don't just want the dedicated pvpers to use the feature, you want broader appeal. We know the faction war theme will no longer repeat.

  14. #4074
    Quote Originally Posted by Luck4 View Post
    I think World PVP is a lost cause at this point because whatever Blizzard comes up with will have flaws.

    Personally, I think removing War Mode in favor of random PVP events would be better, but even then people would complain they cannot complete a Quest/World Quest/or any other activity because there's a PVP event happening in the area enabling PVP to everyone.
    Which is why it wouldn't be better. Forcing people that aren't there for it into PvP is only going to cause resentment.

    WoW is primarily a PvE game. PvP is always going to be a side thing.

  15. #4075
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    Quote Originally Posted by GabrielKnight View Post
    As much as I love planting my Alliance banner on dead, smelly hordes, sometimes I just don't feel like doing PvP, and want to play relaxed. After all, it's just a game. Being forced to do something you don't feel like just because you happened to pick a PvP server years ago is beyond stupid. That sole reason makes War Mode superior, in my eyes.
    Quote for truth and for the will of the nippler in your avatar!

    Warmode is a really nice addition to the game. It could be utilized more though. I also think the faction invasions combined with warmode were brilliant in BFA

    I hope something similar comes next xpac or even in this, maybe 10.2 /dreaming
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  16. #4076
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    Quote for truth and for the will of the nippler in your avatar!

    Warmode is a really nice addition to the game. It could be utilized more though. I also think the faction invasions combined with warmode were brilliant in BFA

    I hope something similar comes next xpac or even in this, maybe 10.2 /dreaming
    Considering that the first thing we do after arriving the Dragon Isles is to light up a flame of friendship, as in a Captain Planet episode, I wouldn't keep my hopes, nor my nipples, high. For some reason, the very foundations of Warcraft are now frowned upon, because being mean is wrong, or something like that. This is how I imagine the current writing team:

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  17. #4077
    Quote Originally Posted by GabrielKnight View Post
    Considering that the first thing we do after arriving the Dragon Isles is to light up a flame of friendship, as in a Captain Planet episode, I wouldn't keep my hopes, nor my nipples, high.
    *sceptical eyebrow raising*

    For some reason, the very foundations of Warcraft are now frowned upon
    Beating each other up for no good reason has not ever been a foundation of WarCraft. There's enough threats going around that both Horde and Alliance have better things to do.

  18. #4078
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GabrielKnight View Post
    Considering that the first thing we do after arriving the Dragon Isles is to light up a flame of friendship, as in a Captain Planet episode, I wouldn't keep my hopes, nor my nipples, high. For some reason, the very foundations of Warcraft are now frowned upon, because being mean is wrong, or something like that. This is how I imagine the current writing team:
    These supposed foundations were already successfully challenged in W3, where we all teamed up together against BL. We are long way from W1/W2, with it's trivial good humans vs evil orcs story. Also, we had our faction war expansions, they all brought little consequences apart from "let's stop fighting each other". We can fight each other only for so long, when we have constant, world ending threats from third parties.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2023-04-15 at 06:46 PM.
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  19. #4079
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    These supposed foundations were already successfully challenged in W3, where we all teamed up together against BL. We are long way from W1/W2, with it's trivial good humans vs evil orcs story. Also, we had our faction war expansions, they all brought little consequences apart from "let's stop fighting each other". We can fight each other only for so long, when we have constant, world ending threats from third parties.
    That doesn't mean the factions don't matter or just remove them gameplay wise and such. WCIII did have them team up but the factions themselves still existed.
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  20. #4080
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    That doesn't mean the factions don't matter or just remove them gameplay wise and such. WCIII did have them team up but the factions themselves still existed.
    I'm not advocating for faction removal (weird stretch, tbh). I'm telling people that Horde vs Alliance stopped being a main cornerstone of the story since W3, and we already had our fill of faction war. People pissed that were are not constantly at each others throat should better realize that, it will save them frustrations.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

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