1. #47021
    Quote Originally Posted by kavikor View Post
    Elder Scrolls lore runs on the unreliable narrator trope. So every document and piece of lore is always told from a "biased" perspective of the character writing so no real piece of information is actually 100% accurate in-universe. They also have a concept called a "Dragon Break" to completely dismiss any issues regarding diverging player choice, basically in crucial moments of history if a major choice is made, the timeline re-alters itself to make all possible outcomes of that choice a possibility.

    So basically if something is retconned, its actually just canon that it got retconned. Like Cyrodiil was actually once a Jungle in-universe, until Tiber Septim retconned it in-universe with his god powers to be a beautiful European countryside and now no one even remembers it was a jungle full of nightmare monsters.
    Yeah gotcha following. I am cool with WoW if it wants to start doing that, but it really needs to start also embracing the documentation that Elder Scrolls uses. Forbidden Reach did that but so far everything else has kind of abandoned that. Ingame books being unreliable is fun. IRL books being unreliable is not.

  2. #47022
    The Unstoppable Force Chickat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luthoritee View Post
    I'll probably just watch the opening ceremony and be done.

    It feels kinda hollow without Starcraft there. SC2 WCS was always a great watch.
    I dont give a flying duck about esports, but im said its not there for your sake.

  3. #47023
    Quote Originally Posted by Northelim View Post
    That Twitter guy is just bat shit insane at this point. He thinks his being some holy scientist with his "amazing" so-called "analysis" The Dude prolly never gotten laid in his life.
    Nerds calling nerds nerds never gets old

  4. #47024
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    "But it says in that timeline, Sargeras won"

    Yeah, so? The Illidan novel makes it clear that there's 1 Legion across all of time, and that throughout the timeways, they've not only destroyed/conquered countless Azeroths, but they conquered/destroyed countless Dark Beyond's as well.
    Retcons exist.

  5. #47025
    Vyranoth is gonna betray us
    Idk how
    Idk when
    But it's coming
    The book confirms that she has more reasons to be against us than with us

  6. #47026
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    "But it says in that timeline, Sargeras won"

    Yeah, so? The Illidan novel makes it clear that there's 1 Legion across all of time, and that throughout the timeways, they've not only destroyed/conquered countless Azeroths, but they conquered/destroyed countless Dark Beyond's as well.
    They really shot themselves on the f... everything with this comment huh. It was the start of "nothing makes sense anymore" on the Warcraft universe.

  7. #47027
    I really don't think it's as simple as "only one legion" either.

    Time is a construct of order. This doesn't really mean that there is one or multiple legions for every timeline. It means that, from the viewpoint of the other cosmic forces, time just doesn't exist.

  8. #47028
    Quote Originally Posted by Paula Deen View Post
    Ingame books being unreliable is fun. IRL books being unreliable is not.
    This so many times over.

  9. #47029
    Quote Originally Posted by Revamp Man View Post
    Vyranoth is gonna betray us
    Idk how
    Idk when
    But it's coming
    The book confirms that she has more reasons to be against us than with us
    I hope she gets her aspect powers in 10.2 and then uses some Shadowflame to burn the tree. The Elf Tears will be delicious.

  10. #47030
    Quote Originally Posted by Revamp Man View Post
    Vyranoth is gonna betray us
    Idk how
    Idk when
    But it's coming
    The book confirms that she has more reasons to be against us than with us
    That assumes that anything in a wow book ever comes to pass. I'm still waiting for my Calia Menethil/Leader of the Horde storyline from 6 years ago.

  11. #47031
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerdslime View Post
    Based on the Traveler's Log, it appears we get a new pet Lil Frostwing for the WoW Anniversary this month.
    Probably means nothing. But a bit suspicious that we get "frozen" recolours of the previous anniversary rewards when the ticket mount for blizzcon was a frozen elemental. I know its Blizzard. We often get some ice themend stuff, but maybe nordend will play a role soon? One can dream...

  12. #47032
    Quote Originally Posted by Woggmer View Post
    Yeah, I don't consider those legitimate anymore... They look too clean and staged... and even the shadows look off.

    After seeing the recent 3 sceenshots with the Dwarf Druid in them, I'm convinced that one is the actual leaked expansions.

    but I'm open to being wrong.
    Not even factoring in the screenshots, you feel this is real?

    Quote Originally Posted by wowoathbreaking View Post

    Member of the Blizzcon event realization team. We are more than 100 people.

    World of Warcraft: Oath Breaking.

    I think the leak itself is why most folks haven't analyzed these 3 screenshots in the same detail as the 4 that were previously leaked.

    I don't think any of the screenshots are real at this point. They all piggybacked off of this leak from 10/18 which the leaker came out and admitted was fake.

    Quote Originally Posted by Algarstorms View Post
    World of Warcraft: Storms of Avaloren
    lvl cap raised to 80
    New neutral race: Algaren. tall dwarves made of stone but have colored hair.
    New continent: Avaloren.
    4 zones. Art looked like jungle, desert, snowy peaks and rocky peaks.

    Khaz algar capital city partially underground. Like IF if half of it was above ground.
    No new specs. Some specs turned into support specs.
    lightbound titan keepers
    storm dreadlords
    fancy dragon/moth hybrid things
    Saw what looked to be a boat piloted by a player character.
    Image of Silvermoon with a harbor and a lot of nightborne asthetics around as well.
    gilneas repaired with night elf asthetics around and a harbor where the worgen starting zone is.
    This leak and many of the subsequent SoA leaks came out 1 day after this Diablo IV leak on 10/17

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritBorn View Post
    New Expansion: Nahantu

    Next WoW expansion is old world revamp title is SoA.

    Enjoy see you at blizzcon!
    And this leak came after the website leak from mogturmen (who has since been banned) on 10/11.

    Quote Originally Posted by mogturmen View Post
    i.imgur.com/VromJYz.jpeg
    All of these leaks are playing on existing players' confirmation bias that Avaloren is next because it is hinted in DF. Avaloren does not have the name recognition to bring in new or former players to the game, and it's too similar in themes to DF. I definitely don't think Avaloren is going to be in the title.

    I think underground with Old God void influence is most likely at this point. Possibly with Khaz Algar being both an Earthen city and a prison for a new Old God. @Scaleface, who accurately leaked DF, alludes to this in his post on 9/23.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scaleface View Post



    As I wrote to few ppl before in private - all I have this time is just a pack of screens, nothing more (and based on the screens themselves there is no point in guessing like with DF where I had much more information).
    It is too risky to upload them in higher quality, as they may be sent intentionally (they may be, for example, generated by AI) to target people who post information during the NDA. Also, as I also mentioned - don't take it too seriously but: most of them have locations with purple skies and models that look very much like dreadlords.
    That's why this time I'm refraining from posting anything, even in the same form as in DF - although it was very funny when you discovered the next clues one by one I simply don't have much information (only a handful of screenshots), and I don't want to cause confusion.

    Personally, without looking at any screenshots, I bet that the expansion may be focused on voids, because many things in the game would indicate this - but this is just my personal opinion. Before shadowlands, there were 4 things planned: shadowlands, dragons (dragonflight), light vs void (???) but also undergrounds.
    In the case of the underground, it may also be different - because, as you yourself have noticed, there was mention of undermined somewhere, so Towellie's recent posts may point towards this - but whether it will be added to the game as an add-on or as a patch - it's hard to say.


    I participate in speculations by reading, day after day
    I think Azerite and Sargeras' sword is going to play a part as well. And the Council of Three Hammers + Gallywix and Gazlowe. Maybe Muradin will finally be a central character.
    Last edited by D4NNYB0Y; 2023-11-02 at 03:57 AM.

  13. #47033
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Sandor View Post
    I've seen some damn convincing stuff made on private servers, so it wouldn't surprise me if the 4 screenshots are faked.

    Like the housing system and carpentry skill has great UI on that one private server.
    True but those things are usually made as actual features for those servers....also the fact that most of them are Legion and the screenshots have vertical fog(so DF or newer client was used).

  14. #47034
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    Not really. Imo, it makes more sense than our KJ chatting with an AU Archimonde or AU KJ to get an AU Gul'dan and kickstart a Legion invasion on Azeroth. Now, whether or not that Legion would be AU or our Legion would be unknown...

    Hell, if the 1 Legion thing got retconned, then that would also imply that either our KJ was working with an AU Archimonde at the time to get HIS (our KJs) Legion onto Azeroth...that or an AU KJ was doing this all along, and we basically defeated an AU Burning Legion that was invading our physical universe.

    Do you see just how easy the 1 Legion thing is in comparison?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Cause now, you can say that KJ tried the Orc thing again, failed, then Archimonde took up the pieces only to die VIA his arrogance. Then, Archimonde sent AU Gul'dan to our Azeroth where KJ would get him to Kickstart the Legion invasion on Azeroth.

    No AU Legion, no our Legion and AU Legion team up BS, no potential clashing ideals with those Legions (which would exist mind you lol), none of that...

    Just an AU Gul'dan, 1 Burning Legion, and an Azeroth that they want to claim (which is likely the only Azeroth with a World Soul, mind you, but that's another debate entirely).
    Chat is this Steve Danuser? Something being simple but irreversibly damaging the reliability of a crack addicts MMO narrative (like the most simple of stories possibly written) means that is isn't actually a simple solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by D4NNYB0Y View Post
    Not even factoring in the screenshots, you feel this is real?
    I am pretty sure that particular individual is what we like to call an inhabitant of the Darkspear Tribal Lands.

  15. #47035
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    Not really. Imo, it makes more sense than our KJ chatting with an AU Archimonde or AU KJ to get an AU Gul'dan and kickstart a Legion invasion on Azeroth. Now, whether or not that Legion would be AU or our Legion would be unknown...

    Hell, if the 1 Legion thing got retconned, then that would also imply that either our KJ was working with an AU Archimonde at the time to get HIS (our KJs) Legion onto Azeroth...that or an AU KJ was doing this all along, and we basically defeated an AU Burning Legion that was invading our physical universe.

    Do you see just how easy the 1 Legion thing is in comparison?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Cause now, you can say that KJ tried the Orc thing again, failed, then Archimonde took up the pieces only to die VIA his arrogance. Then, Archimonde sent AU Gul'dan to our Azeroth where KJ would get him to Kickstart the Legion invasion on Azeroth.

    No AU Legion, no our Legion and AU Legion team up BS, no potential clashing ideals with those Legions (which would exist mind you lol), none of that...

    Just an AU Gul'dan, 1 Burning Legion, and an Azeroth that they want to claim (which is likely the only Azeroth with a World Soul, mind you, but that's another debate entirely).
    The issue is one of scale.

    We know there is an AU Gul'dan, but we can't really say he was full on demon.

    We CAN say that Illidan is full demon though. He is fully immersed as a being of disorder at this point, but there's still multiple versions of Illidan.

  16. #47036
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferlion View Post
    I don't think anyone of them are real, FWIW.
    Wow the single sane poster. Sometimes there just are no leaks. If you go by this forum leaks are expected. That’s not always true. I used to leak patch notes for DOTA 1, and many times you’d have nothing from the primary and secondary sources. Yes leaks happen and have happened in the past. NO that doesn’t mean even convincing looking stuff is a leak.

    If you’ve lost your sanity by checking this thread for 9600 hours that’s on you. The fact remains these leaks either appear outright absurd (missing “Of”, incorrect fonts, tons of blurry pics but not one tiny video) or are right what you’d expect a faker to gravitate toward. In the absurd camp, there is no way we get a “dwarf” themed expac. If there’s one thing I’m sure about is dwarves are unsexy to the masses, and WoW needs sex to sell since it abandoned its grittier foundations. GOT is LOTR hollowed out and with more sex. We are NOT getting a whole expac about dwarves right now. It’d be like GOT having a new season with all giants. I see bits that seem promising, but a dwarf focus is absurd. You can have a book about the Shire in LotR but not about giants in GOT. Get it? FWIW I believed the DF leaks. I forget how I thought about the WoD ones at the time. I’m going with dwarves are unsexy. Look at the backlash of mechagnomes, 1/8th? of the new races on their release as a patch, and unsexy as Dwarves. You really think we getting Mechagnomes the expac?
    Last edited by meroes; 2023-11-02 at 03:29 AM.
    Started in closed beta, probably before your class was even in the game.

  17. #47037
    Mechagnome Myrrh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revamp Man View Post
    Vyranoth is gonna betray us
    Idk how
    Idk when
    But it's coming
    The book confirms that she has more reasons to be against us than with us
    I personally disagree with this read. The book develops the fuel that led her down the path of allying with the primalists, but it's clear that she also was never fully at ease with the decision. She also never lied to Alex, and indeed her ultimate imprisonment was only because she honoured the terms of her duel with her. Vyr's followers then agreed to support Alex as long as the forced Ordering never again took place.

    The book also doubles down on her soft spot for whelps, which is hinted at in some of the 10.2 content as well. She's very clearly not antagonistic by nature, but she felt deep unease at the Ordering of her kin and there was only one option available to her. Provided Alex doesn't step back towards the titanforged, I can't see Vyranoth backstabbing us.

  18. #47038
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    How does the 1 Legion stuff damage anything tho? Just means we have no weird ass clashing ordeals anymore, same with how we have no alternate Burning Legions to deal with.

    - - - Updated - - -

    That's such an odd thing to say.
    The one legion comment means that cosmos forces all have to abide by the same laws....so how did we even end up with Multiverses? AU Draenor should by all accounts not exist if only one legion exists across all timeways. Fuck, if I take an existential approach the whole universe should be space dust due to everything being destroyed by other forces in one off forces.

    That means that if we destroy our Shadowlands, Upside Down Shadowlands (Fully Clothed Zovaal Land FCZL) FCZL will just cease to exist because we destroyed it in one reality. Its limiting.

    Quote Originally Posted by meroes View Post
    Wow the single sane poster. Sometimes there just are no leaks. If you go by this forum leaks are expected. That’s not always true. I used to leak patch notes for DOTA 1, and many times you’d have nothing from the primary and secondary sources. Yes leaks happen and have happened in the past. NO that doesn’t mean even convincing looking stuff is a leak.

    If you’ve lost your sanity by checking this thread for 9600 hours that’s on you. The fact remains these leaks either appear outright absurd (missing “Of”, incorrect fonts, tons of blurry pics but not one tiny video) or are right what you’d expect a faker to gravitate toward. In the abused camp, there is no way we get a “dwarf” themed expac. If there’s one thing I’m sure about is dwarves are unsexy to the masses, and WoW needs sex to sell since it abandoned its grittier foundations.
    This is it. This may be the peak "CLOSEST TO LAUNCH" post I have ever seen on MMOC. What did you mean by this post?

  19. #47039
    Quote Originally Posted by Woke it Up View Post
    They're not gonna WoD 2 and do a "if orcs didn't come to Kalimdor" thing right? Treating Dragonflight as MoP/Cata 2
    I get some folks don't like it, but a "What if WC3 didn't happen" expansion has been my dream for a while (plus just, reusing its assets for a world revamp on the old world side). Living Lordaren as an Alliance city, Zul'aman for the Horde, blue Silvermoon that's gone crazy and captured Malygos for inevitable Silvermoon raid (as an excuse to update the city) and Eversong's gone into perpetual winter as a result, Durnholde's a massive fortress in Hillsbrad that's going to be the end zone thing. Gilneas has strange things washing up at night and got worgen way early because if WC3 doesn't happen, Kalimdor's going to be in a bit of an Old God state (and just making Gilneas into Bloodborne is a way to keep it relevant)

    EDIT:

    Quote Originally Posted by Paula Deen View Post
    The one legion comment means that cosmos forces all have to abide by the same laws....so how did we even end up with Multiverses? AU Draenor should by all accounts not exist if only one legion exists across all timeways. Fuck, if I take an existential approach the whole universe should be space dust due to everything being destroyed by other forces in one off forces.

    That means that if we destroy our Shadowlands, Upside Down Shadowlands (Fully Clothed Zovaal Land FCZL) FCZL will just cease to exist because we destroyed it in one reality. Its limiting.
    It hasn't been confirmed but I just like the headcanon that the One Legion thing only worked due to Argus being alive. He managed to cause everything to be stable, because he was still a Titan and they liked their order. Without Argus or Sargeras around, Legion proved as vulnerable to multiverses as everything else

  20. #47040
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    Well, beyond the fact that the Illidan we faced in Azewrath was simply a fractured causality taking his form, the whole Illidan "demon soul" thing was a weird ordeal in general. This is especially weird since the Player DH also follows his Demon soul boundaries (With them ressing in the Nether and whatnot), yet when they die to Argus canonically, their soul is not ressed in the Nether, but it's ressed in the Spirit World like all the other heroes during that fight, so idk...

    You could also argue that even tho Illidan and the Player DH have their souls bound to the Nether, they're still mortal enough to where time still applies to them...so idk

    - - - Updated - - -



    All Cosmic Forces that are unbound to Order should be unbound by time, yes.

    But anything that's bound to the laws of Order can have an AU counterpart. As for why Draenor has an AU counterpart even tho Outland exists? Well, that can be explained since Outland isn't FULLY in the Nether, but it is surrounded by its magics, etc. The Netherstorm is probably most effected by the Nethers energies ngl, and even then it's not fully in the Nether like Argus is.
    There is a rare in Dragonflight that is an alternate timeline of Illidan.

    Least, if I am remembering correctly its dragonflight.

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