1. #5021
    Quote Originally Posted by ChairmanKaga View Post
    I understand people don't like BfA but there was buildup and Old God stuff throughout it not just jammed in the last patch.
    Well if you cut out the faction war and replace it with some Old God themed content, BfA would be a serviceable South Seas and N'zoth expac.

  2. #5022
    Quote Originally Posted by ChairmanKaga View Post
    I understand people don't like BfA but there was buildup and Old God stuff throughout it not just jammed in the last patch.
    Yes, but it was divorced from the broader conflict. It's not the lack of Old God content, it's that N'zoth had zero role in inciting or driving the plot. It, as well as his freedom, were because of the morally gray lady.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

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  3. #5023
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Why wouldn't Old God Yogg-Saron have Decay powers?
    Because your only link is extremely forced and the lore generally calls it corruption rather than decay.

    I.e. you're making shit up.

  4. #5024
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Yes, but it was divorced from the broader conflict. It's not the lack of Old God content, it's that N'zoth had zero role in inciting or driving the plot. It, as well as his freedom, were because of the morally gray lady.
    N'Zoth perfectly orchestrated all of the events leading to his liberation through his pawns Azshara and Magni.

    Sylvanas and her Horde did nothing but fall for the Old God's manipulations.

  5. #5025
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    N'Zoth perfectly orchestrated all of the events leading to his liberation through his pawns Azshara and Magni.

    Sylvanas and her Horde did nothing but fall for the Old God's manipulations.
    In what way? Was it when Sylvanas had a plan entirely divorced from N'zoths machinations?
    Was the purpose of the Faction war literally just to ensure Nathanos got chased over Nazjatar with the Knaifu? Because that could just as easily have been accomplished with a pre-patch questline of Nathanos finding it in a drawer under his gimp mask, and then being in a naval chase crossing from Tirisfal to Durotar.

    As has been mentioned many times before. There is no logical through line from the starting point of Sylvanas burning down Teldrassil, to N'zoth invades Titan facilities and we stop him. It feels more like two entirely separate expansions. The first one should have ended with a Faction war themed raid like Siege of Orgrimmar where we stop Sylvanas. And the other should have started with an expansion focused on the Naga, and travelling around to the various Titan facilities learning about the Old Gods.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  6. #5026
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    In what way? Was it when Sylvanas had a plan entirely divorced from N'zoths machinations?
    Was the purpose of the Faction war literally just to ensure Nathanos got chased over Nazjatar with the Knaifu? Because that could just as easily have been accomplished with a pre-patch questline of Nathanos finding it in a drawer under his gimp mask, and then being in a naval chase crossing from Tirisfal to Durotar.

    As has been mentioned many times before. There is no logical through line from the starting point of Sylvanas burning down Teldrassil, to N'zoth invades Titan facilities and we stop him. It feels more like two entirely separate expansions. The first one should have ended with a Faction war themed raid like Siege of Orgrimmar where we stop Sylvanas. And the other should have started with an expansion focused on the Naga, and travelling around to the various Titan facilities learning about the Old Gods.
    "In what way"? Did you not play the expansion? The main protagonist, the Player Character, literally did N'Zoth's dirty work, under the mistaken guidance of Magni, who himself was nothing but a pawn of the Old God.

    As for Sylvanas, as per her own concession, she needed the freed N'Zoth to begin his war against Azeroth, causing widespread destruction and calamity and thus increasing the flow of souls into the Maw. Furthermore, hers and the Janitor's plans were not hidden from N'Zoth's gaze, as he knew what the powers of Death were up to and was beginning to make preparations.

    N'Zoth was the mastermind of BfA and he is also the mastermind of DF. The Primalists are obviously just puppets of the Old Gods, as their goals to cleanse the world of the Titans' influence and assault the Emerald Dream are exactly what the Old Gods desire.

    Since the very beginning of DF, players all over the world noted the striking similarity between these Primalists and the infamous Twilight's Hammer Cult, the organization that worshipped the Old Gods and the Hour of Twilight. It is obviously not a coincidence.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2023-05-04 at 07:06 PM.

  7. #5027
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Well if you cut out the faction war and replace it with some Old God themed content, BfA would be a serviceable South Seas and N'zoth expac.
    Tbf, 3/4 raids + Crucible all had Old God themes. I think anymore and people would of complained about theme fatigue like Legion or WoD.

    The real issue is that all the focus went to the Sylvanas shenanigans and the Old God story was just and afterthought. I don't really foresee that being an issue for Dragonflight as the story is almost too condensed. The Incarnates story doesn't seem to be going anywhere other than to serve as a plot device for some larger threat like the Void or Galakrond.

  8. #5028
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Well if you cut out the faction war and replace it with some Old God themed content, BfA would be a serviceable South Seas and N'zoth expac.
    I wish that BFA was actually the faction war themed expac it was marketed as. The actual levelling experience wasn't faction war. It was you running around islands helping out random people you just met, same as usual. It was pretty much the South Seas adventure + old god expac. The only faction war happened in the post-game questline, the 6.1 raid, and in the optional Island Expeditions and War Fronts. Cataclysm had actual faction war happening in its levelling content (Stonetalon Mountains, Barrens, Gilneas starting zone, Silverpine Forest, Vash'jr, Twilight Highlands).

    EDIT: This forum needs to implement threadmarks and alert posters subscribed to a thread of a mod post. This thread can receive hundreds of posts in between the time a person checks it and they're not going to see a mod warning before they get infracted for something they didn't even see.
    Last edited by Val the Moofia Boss; 2023-05-04 at 08:59 PM.

  9. #5029
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    I wish that BFA was actually the faction war themed expac it was marketed as. The actual levelling experience wasn't faction war. It was you running around islands helping out random people you just met, same as usual. It was pretty much the South Seas adventure + old god expac. The only faction war happened in the post-game questline, the 6.1 raid, and in the optional Island Expeditions and War Fronts. Cataclysm had actual faction war happening in its levelling content (Stonetalon Mountains, Barrens, Gilneas starting zone, Silverpine Forest, Vash'jr, Twilight Highlands).
    I'd have liked BOTH expansions. A real faction war one that is focused on revamped zones, had multiple warfronts and ended with Siege of Stormwind (so the Horde can shut up about SoO) and a South Seas expac with Zandalar and Kul Tiras that moves to naga and N'zoth

  10. #5030
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    In what way? Was it when Sylvanas had a plan entirely divorced from N'zoths machinations?
    Was the purpose of the Faction war literally just to ensure Nathanos got chased over Nazjatar with the Knaifu? Because that could just as easily have been accomplished with a pre-patch questline of Nathanos finding it in a drawer under his gimp mask, and then being in a naval chase crossing from Tirisfal to Durotar.

    As has been mentioned many times before. There is no logical through line from the starting point of Sylvanas burning down Teldrassil, to N'zoth invades Titan facilities and we stop him. It feels more like two entirely separate expansions. The first one should have ended with a Faction war themed raid like Siege of Orgrimmar where we stop Sylvanas. And the other should have started with an expansion focused on the Naga, and travelling around to the various Titan facilities learning about the Old Gods.
    I completely agree with you, there are two plots in BFA that barely has anything to do with each other.

  11. #5031
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    I like their design and general vibe, but what I think they should've done is upped the grummle connection. What Dragonflight massively lacks compared to Pandaria is the thought put into the setting as an internally consistent whole. Nowhere is it more obvious when comparing even bit-races like the grummles and saurok compared to how vague the status of things like the Primalists and djaradin are pre our arrival.
    Giving DF a bit of leeway here, since the connection between all the MoP races were not immediately apparent until 5.2.
    Still though, you are right. Most of the races we encounter on the Dragon Isles feel like they were chosen arbitrarily, rather than as a natural development of the world.

    The Niffen, being a new thing rather than a preexisting cavern dwelling race is one thing. Another is how Centaur are torturously forced into the plot for no better reason than there just being their turn to get an HD upgrade. The Tuskarr are slightly better, but only because of the proximity to Northrend.

    I have to wonder if this really is just down to the developers continuously upgrading old models and needing to find reasons to use them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Luck4 View Post
    I completely agree with you, there are two plots in BFA that barely has anything to do with each other.
    I would say it's more like you have one really solid core concept of South Seas expansion with Pirates, Naga, and an Old God undercurrent. Being invaded by a poorly thought out Faction War one.

    I wonder if I'll ever be as disappointed by an expansion as I was by BfA. On paper that expansion should have been an 11/10.

    But anyways, we should probably get back to Dragonflight lore. Sadly there isn't much we can do to make BfA better st this point.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  12. #5032
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    Did everyone forget that we are getting Tyr AND Blue Dragon storyline in 10.1 (likely next week)?

  13. #5033
    Quote Originally Posted by Catastrophy349 View Post
    Did everyone forget that we are getting Tyr AND Blue Dragon storyline in 10.1 (likely next week)?
    I guess we are going back to the Azure Span for the Fyrakk assaults, so will be interesting to see what happens. Maybe we finally find out what the deal with Vakthros is.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And we will be getting updates on Blizzcon in the next two weeks as well. Probably not anything juicy to get from that announcement, but maybe.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  14. #5034
    I mean...weve found out THIS VERY XPAC that Tyr was infusing protos with elemental magic. Decay is an elemental magic. And Tyr implied in Dawn of the Aspects that he and the keepers are kinda at fault in some way, saying "We never intended this path." (for Galakrond).

    My guess so far, Galakrond was the result of 2 different forces corrupting him at once. Its the best explanation for his very unique and weird condition.

    Tyr infused him with Decay magic, after which he was either released or escaped and drank from the waters corrupted by Yogg.
    So he was infused with Decay, which explains his DECAYING skin, the green mist he breathed and the undead he spat out. And he was corrupted by Void, which is why he was growing additional limbs, eyes and other things all over his body.

    Which would also explain his endless hunger: his body was constantly decaying (Decay) and then regenerating/mutating (Void), which means he needed more and more food to fuel that.
    Last edited by Houle; 2023-05-04 at 10:44 PM.
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  15. #5035
    Quote Originally Posted by Houle View Post
    I mean...weve found out THIS VERY XPAC that Tyr was infusing protos with elemental magic. Decay is an elemental magic. And Tyr implied in Dawn of the Aspects that he and the keepers are kinda at fault in some way, saying "We never intended this path." (for Galakrond).
    Did we? My understanding was that he simply observed what happens when they get infused, not that he took any active steps on causing that. I.e. it's a natural phenomenon.

    The rest is just supposition on your part.

  16. #5036
    I see our Old God fanatic was finally banned lol, was about time.

    On topic, doing the new campaign quest has made me realise I don't particularly like any of the Black Dragons..Is it just me?
    I enjoy Wrathion and Sabellion fighting like children but that's about it tbh

  17. #5037
    Quote Originally Posted by Scyth View Post
    I see our Old God fanatic was finally banned lol, was about time.

    On topic, doing the new campaign quest has made me realise I don't particularly like any of the Black Dragons..Is it just me?
    I enjoy Wrathion and Sabellion fighting like children but that's about it tbh
    I think that's partially on purpose. They are rather jerkish by nature. Ebyssian is about the only one with any kind of sense, probably because he spend millenia with the Highmountain.

  18. #5038
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    I think that's partially on purpose. They are rather jerkish by nature. Ebyssian is about the only one with any kind of sense, probably because he spend millenia with the Highmountain.
    Ebonhorn just feels like the basic stock sensible tauren which is just totally unfitting compared to every other black dragon ever and super boring.

    They are obviously building him up to be the new aspect which is just such a lame choice when he's more tauren then dragon and doesn't seem to be moving out of that any time soon.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  19. #5039
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    I guess we are going back to the Azure Span for the Fyrakk assaults, so will be interesting to see what happens. Maybe we finally find out what the deal with Vakthros is.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And we will be getting updates on Blizzcon in the next two weeks as well. Probably not anything juicy to get from that announcement, but maybe.


    I'd hope to hear something about 10.2.
    If its in 2 weeks, that means we'll most probably see Aberrus end-cinematic by that moment (if there is 1) AND we'll have 10.1.5 on PTR.

    At least announcement/name of 10.2.

  20. #5040
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    I think that's partially on purpose. They are rather jerkish by nature. Ebyssian is about the only one with any kind of sense, probably because he spend millenia with the Highmountain.
    Voraxian seems like a decent fellow.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Houle View Post
    I mean...weve found out THIS VERY XPAC that Tyr was infusing protos with elemental magic. Decay is an elemental magic. And Tyr implied in Dawn of the Aspects that he and the keepers are kinda at fault in some way, saying "We never intended this path." (for Galakrond).
    No we did not? We found that Tyr observed how protodrakes were uniquely affected by external processes and documented them being imbued with elemental magic and built the process for infusing them with Order on that information. We also learn that Yogg'Saron hijacked that process early on and attempted a different form of infusion (most likely Void but it could be Decay as well), probably by corrupting the Wellspring of Eternity. The purpose of the Halls of Infusion was to cleanse and to infuse the Azerite enriched waters from the Wellspring beneath Tyrhold with Order magic that cascades down to the Ruby Life Pools were most dragons were originally hatched.

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