1. #5561
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Technically, the Old Gods have had a role in almost every expansion, as have several other major factions. That doesn't mean it's a "Void expansion".

    The actual Void-void-expansions are the ones more directly concerned with the Hour of Twilight, which so far only applies to Cataclysm and Dragonflight.
    I think Mists definitely had the Black Empire as the true antagonists as Y'shaarj, even after death, was controlling everything no matter what old devs said (GARROSH WAS TOTALLY IN CONTROL LOL). However it just wasn't as big a scale a threat as N'zoth's Hour of Twilight, which I guess is a bit more "Void" even if that force is behind all the Old Gods.

  2. #5562
    Pandaren Monk Worldshaper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    I think Void and Light will be dealt with roughly at the same time and will share expansions. They are already building up the cast of antagonists on each side:

    Void: Xal, Azshara
    Light: Yrel, New Scarlets, Lothraxion (working for Denathrius), Turalyon(???)
    Wild Cards: Murozond, Denathrius (moving him here)

    I doubt they will ever do an expansion like Shadowlands again where it's strictly one realm and one theme until the end.

    Also I feel like Dragonflight shouldn't be a part of a "Void" trilogy when it's just one patch and is just a reminder of who Deathwing/N'zoths masters are and were.
    Regarding the Light/Void expansion, I agree. Just like the Titans were heavily featured in Legion and Life was featured in many ways in the Death trilogy. First by having its ass beaten with the Burning of Teldrassil, and later by making a comeback in the form of the Night Warrior, and all the Elune / World Tree seed stuff.

    As for the Void and Dragonflight, I don't think we can say it's just one patch. Sure, the Void might not be in our faces this whole time. But the Void could be orchestrating all of it, and could be the ultimate big bad. Just like Death wasn't the entire theme of Battle for Azeroth, because that would be boring as heck. Instead, Death made lots of appearances through things like Bwonsamdi and Zandalari death worship, Sylvanas' shenanigans, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    I think Mists definitely had the Black Empire as the true antagonists as Y'shaarj, even after death, was controlling everything no matter what old devs said (GARROSH WAS TOTALLY IN CONTROL LOL). However it just wasn't as big a scale a threat as N'zoth's Hour of Twilight, which I guess is a bit more "Void" even if that force is behind all the Old Gods.
    Then you misunderstand MoP.

    As the Pandaren kept repeating to us over and over, the antagonists of MoP were negative emotions, such as Pride and Hate. The Old God stuff was just a catalyst to make that happen technically within the game world (because feelings can't really materialise as monsters, heh). It was a story of enjoying life, prioritising important things in life, and staying away from bad thoughts and emotions.

  3. #5563
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    That's just straight out of a recent T&E video, though.

    What IS interesting, however, is this:

    World of Warcraft

    The Disorder (Fel) Trilogy - We travelled into the realm of Disorder (Twisting Nether, i.e. Mac'Aree) to end this cosmic threat.
    The Burning Crusade
    Warlords of Draenor
    Legion

    The Death Trilogy - We travelled into the realm of Death (Shadowlands) to end this cosmic threat.
    Wrath of the Lich King
    Battle for Azeroth
    Shadowlands

    The Shadow (Void) Trilogy - Where will we travel to end this threat? Literally into the Void? Or does the Void come to us?
    Cataclysm
    Dragonflight
    11.0

    (Yes, MoP was just a big goofy adventure and not part of anything else directly.)
    Dragonflight is NOT part of some form of trilogy, but yes, Expansions CAN be a part of a larger story as they progress. I doubt we'll deal with the Void Lords anytime soon, and them being the next main threat would imo be a waste.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    Dragonflight has elements as its second theme after dragons and Cataclysm was THE elemental expansion. There's zero chance 11.0 will be Elements again, I think a "War of Light and Void" story is more likely with an exploration on Azeroth theme overall.





    I meant patch area expansions, do you think there could be more to the Pools?
    I'm sure there will be more Elemental plots and focus, but prolly not as another expac. Though Blizz could prove me wrong lol.

    As for the Light and Void stuff? Why does everyone want that to be next? You'll likely NOT get that in any major way til 15.0 or beyond that. And considering certain plot points, such as Sargeras, Azshara, potential Azeroth and Draenor build up to the Light and Void stuff, other Cosmic Domains I think we'll see explored before going to the Light and Void realm...we'll likely be on the bench for that plotpoint for the next while.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Regarding the Light/Void expansion, I agree. Just like the Titans were heavily featured in Legion and Life was featured in many ways in the Death trilogy. First by having its ass beaten with the Burning of Teldrassil, and later by making a comeback in the form of the Night Warrior, and all the Elune / World Tree seed stuff.

    As for the Void and Dragonflight, I don't think we can say it's just one patch. Sure, the Void might not be in our faces this whole time. But the Void could be orchestrating all of it, and could be the ultimate big bad. Just like Death wasn't the entire theme of Battle for Azeroth, because that would be boring as heck. Instead, Death made lots of appearances through things like Bwonsamdi and Zandalari death worship, Sylvanas' shenanigans, etc.

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    Then you misunderstand MoP.

    As the Pandaren kept repeating to us over and over, the antagonists of MoP were negative emotions, such as Pride and Hate. The Old God stuff was just a catalyst to make that happen technically within the game world (because feelings can't really materialise as monsters, heh). It was a story of enjoying life, prioritising important things in life, and staying away from bad thoughts and emotions.
    I think Void stuff will slowly but surely build up throughout the Game. I think it'll touch itself across Life and Order, and maybe even Disorder some more, and I think there will be Light focus also being built up slowly but surely as well.

    But none of it will be for the near future, I don't think. The Void plays its cards meticulously, and I would hate it if they were the next force we fully explored/handled, especially if you consider that the Void Lords are basically the WoW equivalent to the Outer Gods.

  4. #5564
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    10.3 - Alex purges (some of) the corruption from Azeroth, and brings new life into a world nearly overrun by its enemies. WORLD REVAMP.

    A dream honestly

  5. #5565
    We should get the 10.1.5 article in the next hour or so, right?

  6. #5566
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    We should get the 10.1.5 article in the next hour or so, right?
    In about an hour, yup.

  7. #5567
    Quote Originally Posted by Marlamin View Post
    In about an hour, yup.
    Cool. Then last minute predictions:

    -Citadel of Time Megadungeon
    -Vakthros: Mage Tower 2.0
    -Heritage Armor for both Night Elves and Darkspear Trolls (both life/wildgod themed ahead of Tree Patch)
    -some kind of Dracthyr customization themed around the flights (like transformation smoke)

  8. #5568
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Where does the bit about Mage Tower 2.0 come from?


    Formerly known as Arafal

  9. #5569
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Where does the bit about Mage Tower 2.0 come from?
    The "class-themed items" that have been datamined throughout 10.1 as well as my late realization that Vakthros, while probably not the megadungeon, could be home to a Mage Tower as it fits the theme.

    Also the Blue story has to lead to something and its probably not the Time dungeon or Dream.

  10. #5570
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Where does the bit about Mage Tower 2.0 come from?
    Speculation that turns into theories that turns into facts per usual here.

  11. #5571
    Pandaren Monk Worldshaper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    Dragonflight is NOT part of some form of trilogy, but yes, Expansions CAN be a part of a larger story as they progress. I doubt we'll deal with the Void Lords anytime soon, and them being the next main threat would imo be a waste.
    No one knows for sure yet, but I maintain that it it part of a trilogy.

    Cataclysm and Dragonflight share so many elements, it's almost comical. Borderline A New Hope and The Force Awakens situation.

    - Twilight's Hammer Cult / Primalist Cult.
    - Void influence in the background.
    - The Dragon Aspects.
    - Big focus on the Black Flight.
    - Elements and some form of "elemental lord", including cases of non-elementals becoming transformed.
    - World tree plays a role.

    The list goes on.

    Since the other expansions, except for MoP, all seem to be part of trilogies, it makes sense that these two are as well.

    It also makes a lot of sense that Blizzard is cycling through the bad cosmic forces of Disorder, Death and Shadow.

  12. #5572
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    No one knows for sure yet, but I maintain that it it part of a trilogy.

    Cataclysm and Dragonflight share so many elements, it's almost comical. Borderline A New Hope and The Force Awakens situation.

    - Twilight's Hammer Cult / Primalist Cult.
    - Void influence in the background.
    - The Dragon Aspects.
    - Big focus on the Black Flight.
    - Elements and some form of "elemental lord", including cases of non-elementals becoming transformed.
    - World tree plays a role.

    The list goes on.

    Since the other expansions, except for MoP, all seem to be part of trilogies, it makes sense that these two are as well.

    It also makes a lot of sense that Blizzard is cycling through the bad cosmic forces of Disorder, Death and Shadow.
    Outside of Death, the other 5 Forces haven't really been explored much at all...

    Even Disorder is extremely unknown to us.

  13. #5573
    Pandaren Monk Worldshaper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    Outside of Death, the other 5 Forces haven't really been explored much at all...

    Even Disorder is extremely unknown to us.
    Disorder was represented by its main form of magic, Fel magic, and the Burning Legion.

    Shadow was represented by Old Gods and the Void, but because it is manipulative in its nature and works in the background, we saw it mostly through its agents such as Deathwing, Sarkareth, and the cults.

  14. #5574
    Before you say anything, I really REALLY don't think we explored much of the Nether...like at all. We've seen worlds linked to it, or bound in the Nethers influence, and we HAVE been to like very basic layers of the Nether, but we don't know much of the Nether past the Legion's reach, we don't know if Progenitor cities like Oribos exist for each realm, we don't even know if there's a Pantheon of Disorder, much less do we know much of Zereth Tumult...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Disorder was represented by its main form of magic, Fel magic, and the Burning Legion.

    Shadow was represented by Old Gods and the Void, but because it is manipulative in its nature and works in the background, we saw it mostly through its agents such as Deathwing, Sarkareth, and the cults.
    Yeah, but the Burning Legion is just that, an armada of Demons that was created by a being of Order infused with Disorderly Magics. There could be far more to the Nether than we know.

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    And yeah, Shadow is represented by that, but the Void is more than just the Old Gods and Azeroth, and their reach clearly expands beyond just the Old Gods, Sarkareth, etc. I wouldn't be shocked if they fuck with Life and Order a couple more times in the future.

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    Death is the first Cosmic Domain we've fully entered and explored in any major fashion. And only NOW, assuming we're going to it fully in 10.2, are seeing much of the Dream and seeing a slight BIT, if only just a BIT, of the greater Cosmic Domain of Life in general.

  15. #5575
    They are definitely thinking about fleshing out Fel/the Nether some more with the idea of Zereth Tumult. Just the idea that the force is seemingly produced by something and MAY have an organic pantheon (as opposed to the manufactured/Ordered Legion that Sargeras made) is enough new wiggle room for them to explore Demons further beyond the Legion.
    Last edited by Cheezits; 2023-05-11 at 04:28 PM.

  16. #5576
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    They are definitely thinking about fleshing out Fel/the Nether some more with the idea of Zereth Tumult. Just the idea that the force is seemingly produced by something and MAY have a pantheon is enough new wiggle room for them to explore Demons further beyond the Legion.
    100%. I wouldn't be shocked if they went full 40k on the Nether and gave us a Disorder Pantheon, and they either "killed" themselves VIA infighting, were brought into infighting by the Dreadlords, or always have and still are in an eternal war against eachother, deep within the Nether, uncaring about the greater Cosmos beyond.

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    Hell, I wouldn't be shocked if, like the Shadowlands, the Dream and whatnot, the Nether also housed different layers and realms of existence, but due to the Nethers complex nature as the Disorder Domain, it's layers are far more insane the further you explore them, beyond mere dimensional limitations too.

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    WoW has a LOT of expansion potential left. 13.0 or anything like that would NOT be the end, and I doubt Blizzard will simply give us the Void Lords next.

    That Chinese "predictor" is lucky, simple as that. And tbf here, I kinda had similar predictions too in the past (With the Old God stuff being in 8.0, the LK stuff being major in 9.0, Dragons for 10.0...kinda, etc. But now I know it's anyone's game, and anything can happen post 10.0). We just didn't know how the plots would go in turn fully.

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    Also, what's with all this Y'Shaarj stuff being talked about?

    Do people just not realize that Y'Shaarj's influence Azeroth isn't a factor anymore? Or? https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/The..._of_Y%27Shaarj

  17. #5577
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    I actually feel like a dumbass for not realizing this, but Vakthros is LITERALLY a "mage tower" (at least with the Arcane connection) and it would explain the "class weapons" that have been datamined this patch. Vakthros would make perfect sense as the Mage Tower 2.0 location and the class themed weapons are likely the reward.

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    Unrelated to Vakthros but Blizzard really nailed it with the breaking up of characters for flights and patch focus. People won't shut the hell up about the Black Dragon group and it's smart to focus on them specifically this patch while the other patches will probably all deal with a specific flight: it means the same characters won't be spammed every chapter like BFA and Shadowlands.

    Though it seems likely the Red will be shafted and the Blue won't get a specific patch. But I would love to be proven wrong and 10.3 is Red vs Decay.
    If Decay is related to Galakrond and Yogg Saron then I do believe the final patch will be Red and Green in the Dream fighting against a decay infused Iridikron behind has absorbed Galakrond’s essence.

    Could harken back to the DK scenario in Legion in which DK’s invaded the Ruby Sanctum as well as that DK in Drustvar in BfA fighting against the red flight. I know Zovaal was influencing Bolvar via the helm but a plot point could also be raised that Yogg was also influencing the DK’s via saronite - with this particular point being a point of contention in a red vs decay story.

  18. #5578
    Pandaren Monk Worldshaper's Avatar
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    Quick prediction before tonight's expected blog post reveal of patch 10.1.5:

    The roadmap says it'll arrive in the summer (notably the only patch listed in the summer), and will contain a megadungeon, world events, and content & systems updates.

    • Release date is in June or July.
    • We do know of some additional features which have been mentioned in dev interviews. For example, they'll tweak some legacy raids to make them more accessible, and give Shadowlands Raid Finder a solo queue.
    • Additional class/race combos are made available, this time focusing on Warlocks and Shaman.
    • Small cosmetic additions to existing races.
    • Megadungeon is about the Bronze flight and has a large emphasis on saving them from themselves (Chromie and Nozdormu notable characters), with cool jumps through time and space included and wicked rewards from all over the timeways.
    • World events will feature anomalies leaking out into our world from the timeways, so we'll have to stop them and fix things.
    • Naturally, lotts of updates to the UI, classes, and so on.

  19. #5579
    Pandaren Monk AngerFork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    Cool. Then last minute predictions:
    My predictions:

    - Temporal Conflux Megadungeon
    - An event setup similar to Primal Storms throughout old Azeroth that instead deals with time-based conflicts. Perhaps a void Garrosh who won or stuff like that.
    - Heritage Armor quests featuring the Forsaken & Night Elves in preparation for a new World Tree.
    - Warlocks available to all races
    - A handful of new customizations
    - A new item for cross-faction guilds. Maybe the ability to queue for LFD or LFR cross-faction?

  20. #5580
    Pandaren Monk Worldshaper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    Yeah, but the Burning Legion is just that, an armada of Demons that was created by a being of Order infused with Disorderly Magics. There could be far more to the Nether than we know.

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    And yeah, Shadow is represented by that, but the Void is more than just the Old Gods and Azeroth, and their reach clearly expands beyond just the Old Gods, Sarkareth, etc. I wouldn't be shocked if they fuck with Life and Order a couple more times in the future.

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    Death is the first Cosmic Domain we've fully entered and explored in any major fashion. And only NOW, assuming we're going to it fully in 10.2, are seeing much of the Dream and seeing a slight BIT, if only just a BIT, of the greater Cosmic Domain of Life in general.
    I never said that the Burning Legion, for example, was the be-all and end-all of Disorder. But it has been Blizzard's way of representing that cosmic force.

    There's also the fact that the cosmology chart and all that extra nonsense they added in Shadowlands wasn't really mature yet around the time of WoD and Legion's development, when they started concluding these "trilogies" as I call them. Had Legion been released today, we might've seen something similar to Shadowlands. I'm glad we didn't, though. Visiting Outland, Draenor and Mac'Aree worked so much better than going to some magical (yet technological) seat of creation inside a spirit realm.

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