1. #5741
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    On to something different for a change though? What are peoples opinion on the whole Vortex Pinnacle redesign? It definitely suffers a bad case of overthinking mechanics, but as an experiment in remaking old dungeons I think it's quite interesting. It's not as great as remaking a dungeon completely like what we had in MoP and what not, but it's interesting nonetheless.
    I'm just glad that one of the most stunning environments in WoW got another chance to be seen by more players. Such a shame that we didn't get much chance to explore Skywall or the Abyssal Maw as zones.

  2. #5742
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    The main issue is that their entitlement and immaturity, although present, was exaggerated to a remarkably intense degree through most of Dragonflight and especially throughout 10.1. Ebyssian has done nothing to really earn the position other than be portrayed normally among two others whose flaws were exaggerated beyond the threshold of what is reasonable.
    This is normally how they develop characters tho. Like, for example, Varian telling a 10k yr old night elf how to do warfare.
    Sabellian is still the best choice for aspect if they want a character with some flaws and depth. Emberthal makes 0 sense. Ebyssian is boring. Wrathion is just an annoying immature little B.
    I will not reply to posts that are non-constructive or contain flaming and/or trolling.

  3. #5743
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Regardless I would say Emberthal is a better choice than Ebyssian. At least she actually has a reluctant leader plotline going.
    Maybe Adamanthia can be the new aspect. Just cut the knot on the whole issue altogether.

    On a sidenote. Please don't refer to Emberthal as a Mary Sue. That massively cheapens the term. She is a a character with little depth, not a character with no flaws. There is a difference.
    Yea, lets put some batshit crazy dragon in Aspect seat. Sure, why not. Or some other race, but not dragon. Why not put Thrall in that place? He was alike earthwarder once.
    Sabellian was good choice, but they decide to put him to some "general" vibe to me.
    While that "character" Wrathion comes to some Black-dragon title character and akin spy-master of Black Dragonflight. And that great. He can be present in new stories.
    Same with Sabellian - he could be present in stories with leading military of Black Dragonflight.
    And Ebonhorn would be AFKing in Seat of Aspects with other Aspects.



    And with that - we have like 2(3) major characters in Black Dragonflight. Common Wrathion as title character, less common Sabellian to heavy artilery and AFK Ebonhorn.
    Wish there would be to other dragonflights.
    Green have dead Ysera and Merithra to AFK. And no other major dragon at all. Maybe her children will be in new 10.2?
    Bronze - we have Nozdormu to AFK and Chromie to title character. Other then them? Nope, maybe some Infinite join them to make more.
    Red - we have our queen to AFK and thats all. Majordorm is minor, mind you.
    Blue - we have AFK Kalec, AFK Senegos and ghost Singragosa. With their story will continue.
    Last edited by Dancaris; 2023-05-12 at 09:56 AM.

  4. #5744
    Btw I'll say this. Wrathion's biggest reason to become Aspect is that he has shown by far the greatest resistance to corruption. Ebyssian has been hiding since forever and he already almost fell to corruption TWICE. Wrathion keeps resisting the Void better than anyone other than the player.

  5. #5745
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I get that but we got it anyway. So it should stay relevant (it's not true for so many other races but just cause they fuck up with others doesn't mean they should keep at it). Dracthyr won't be afforded multiple important NPCs, they pretty much will get Emberthal and that's it. So they need to give her an important role in the story. The Dracthyr don't really control any important lands like other racial leaders so she needs some buy in for the rest of the story of Warcraft. Making her Aspect keeps her relevant for a long time and with her, the Dracthyr.
    They have azure boi and Sinder gal too, you know. Aside that green chick from FR. Its more than half of Horde race have acting characters at all!

  6. #5746
    Quote Originally Posted by Dancaris View Post
    They have azure boi and Sinder gal too, you know. Aside that green chick from FR. Its more than half of Horde race have acting characters at all!
    You don't even know their names So no, they don't have them any more than I can count. Azurathel and Cinderthress probably will get less screentime than Aysa. . .

    But sure, they ARE better off than the Darkspear

  7. #5747
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    On a sidenote. Please don't refer to Emberthal as a Mary Sue. That massively cheapens the term. She is a a character with little depth, not a character with no flaws. There is a difference.
    I would contest your claim that I am mischaracterizing her entirely in calling her that. It is true that she is flawed, though the has are woefully generic and do little to reflect poorly on her from a Watsonian perspective, being effectively limited to "uncertain" and "sometimes dejected". However, she also gains a number of points on account of the sheer degree of spehsulness that permeates her from being a Dracthyr alone; in setting of comically-overpowered megaraces, the Dracthyr are uniquely endowed with the wholly-unique trait of being magical super-soldiers designed by Deathwing himself to be able to use all teh powahs of all teh Aspects. Although I was exaggerating when I called her a Mary Sue, it's certainly not a wholly-inaccurate assessment, even if its more on account of what she is in than the character in herself.

    As for the reluctant leader thing, we've had that plenty already with Anduin. All the "reluctant leader" plotline would do by this point is add in another sadsack who can make sad eyes at the camera in cinematics and further permeate the population of major characters with Anduin and Baine clones. Even then, the whole trope's really just a way to indulge the misguided assumption that the best leaders are those who don't want the position,—which has historically been true roughly once and then never again throughout the entirety of history,—as though they wouldn't just be put in a position of total disillusionment and unmanageable stress that would render them unable to effectively make decisions on account of being perpetually internally preoccupied with wanting to be anywhere but where they are.

  8. #5748
    You don't even know their names So no, they don't have them any more than I can count. Azurathel and Cinderthress probably will get less screentime than Aysa. . .
    Yea, my bad. They are afking and do nothing, so I just dont remember them good.

    But sure, they ARE better off than the Darkspear
    And Mag'Hars, that have 1 named character at all.
    And Highmountain that have Lasan and Bains girl Maya.
    Or even goblins that have leader from other Cartel.

    Alliance have that too, mind you, I am not some Hard Horde fan anymore.
    Pandarens aside, blue team have mechagnomes with AFK Erazmin, Void Elves with some dude somewhere in space aside Alleria, Lightforged with leader human Turalion and T'paaros as meme. WoW definitely lack minor characters and race-driven stories. Even heritage chains, that idealy should represent more characters, fails to deliver. We meet same old characters, same stories (Aside Orcs, that chain was great in many ways)

  9. #5749
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Btw I'll say this. Wrathion's biggest reason to become Aspect is that he has shown by far the greatest resistance to corruption. Ebyssian has been hiding since forever and he already almost fell to corruption TWICE. Wrathion keeps resisting the Void better than anyone other than the player.
    So I have 7 lvl 70s but haven't really done much end-game content.

    Don't we chose at some point to side with Sabelian or Wrathion?

    I doubt Blizz would give the aspect to one side or the other, leaving half of the players with disappointment. So it's probably Ebyssion

  10. #5750
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarohk View Post
    So I have 7 lvl 70s but haven't really done much end-game content.

    Don't we chose at some point to side with Sabelian or Wrathion?

    I doubt Blizz would give the aspect to one side or the other, leaving half of the players with disappointment. So it's probably Ebyssion
    Nah you don't really choose. You can side with both. And with the lunatics who believe that Deathwing will come. And with some local Blacksmiths.

  11. #5751
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    I would contest your claim that I am mischaracterizing her entirely in calling her that.
    You definitely are. Emberthal is certainly not the level of unexplained awesome and beloved by all that characterises a Mary Sue or even close to it. She's good at the things she's supposed to be good at on account of that being her actual job, has not much knowledge of the world outside the Forbidden Isles and people aren't randomly fawning over her for no reason.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Nah you don't really choose. You can side with both. And with the lunatics who believe that Deathwing will come. And with some local Blacksmiths.
    Eh, the latter is more "provide aid to", you can only do the main key quest for Sabellian and Wrathion and they're the only ones with reputations. You can certainly max rep with both, though.

  12. #5752
    Quote Originally Posted by Dancaris View Post
    Yea, my bad. They are afking and do nothing, so I just dont remember them good.



    And Mag'Hars, that have 1 named character at all.
    And Highmountain that have Lasan and Bains girl Maya.
    Or even goblins that have leader from other Cartel.

    Alliance have that too, mind you, I am not some Hard Horde fan anymore.
    Pandarens aside, blue team have mechagnomes with AFK Erazmin, Void Elves with some dude somewhere in space aside Alleria, Lightforged with leader human Turalion and T'paaros as meme. WoW definitely lack minor characters and race-driven stories. Even heritage chains, that idealy should represent more characters, fails to deliver. We meet same old characters, same stories (Aside Orcs, that chain was great in many ways)
    Highmountain have everyone we met during their quests. So obviously Mayla and Lasan as well as Jale (damn, most of the people we met got killed!). The Mag'har are such an asspull that I can't be bothered; they were in a hurry to cross the collapsing time portal and at the same time they brought a significant army representing all tribes, some of their tech and plenty of stowaways so . . . wtf? Same with Lightforged, there are so few of them though I would count all the main characters from the Argus campaign as major names, Fareeya and Y'mera were both pretty cool, Baraat, Enaara and Sorvos less so. But still several named NPCs who have actually done something at some point. Same with Mechagon, all the Rustbolt Resistance NPCs that are involved in the rebellion can be counted on for the future; I'd count at least Pascal and Izira as useful.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Eh, the latter is more "provide aid to", you can only do the main key quest for Sabellian and Wrathion and they're the only ones with reputations. You can certainly max rep with both, though.
    Regardless, the game definitely doesn't make you choose one or the other; heck given they have unique collectibles and an achievement for befriending both, the games assumes you will try that anyway. Plus it's not like player choice matters or else they would have had to respect Sylvanas' simps somehow.

  13. #5753
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    You definitely are. Emberthal is certainly not the level of unexplained awesome and beloved by all that characterises a Mary Sue or even close to it. She's good at the things she's supposed to be good at on account of that being her actual job, has not much knowledge of the world outside the Forbidden Isles and people aren't randomly fawning over her for no reason.
    As I said, I was not mischaracterizing her entirely. However, I was characterizing the Dracthyr of a whole—a species of which she is a single instance—as possessing qualities that make them unusually special for the setting. I was being disingenuous, and they are not wholly deserving of the label as a species, but you can't deny there is some quality present there in a race which is defined exclusively by being the ultimate super-soldiers bred for the express purpose of having All Teh Powahs. Still, I confess that my statement was ultimately probably not wholly applicable and ought to be discarded, and so I shall concede the point overall and state I was wrong.
    Last edited by Le Conceptuel; 2023-05-12 at 10:43 AM.

  14. #5754
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarohk View Post
    So I have 7 lvl 70s but haven't really done much end-game content.

    Don't we chose at some point to side with Sabelian or Wrathion?

    I doubt Blizz would give the aspect to one side or the other, leaving half of the players with disappointment. So it's probably Ebyssion
    You choose between Sabellian or Wrathion for a weekly quest. While the game seems perfectly content leaving only choosing one as a valid option, there is also nothing that contradicts the player helping both at different times until they both equally like the player. If anything I would argue that this seems like the intended resolution.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  15. #5755
    So it's going to be Ebyssian based on an icon from a spell from the new evoker spec? Am I reading that right.
    I will not reply to posts that are non-constructive or contain flaming and/or trolling.

  16. #5756
    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    So it's going to be Ebyssian based on an icon from a spell from the new evoker spec? Am I reading that right.
    That is most probable btw. New model, ring on nose, that chin more Tauren-like, and name Black Aspect. Its 100% new Ebyssian picture.
    With that we could assume that Nozdormu remains Bronze Aspect.
    Last edited by Dancaris; 2023-05-12 at 11:29 AM.

  17. #5757
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    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    So it's going to be Ebyssian based on an icon from a spell from the new evoker spec? Am I reading that right.
    The spell is called Aspects favor, and there is one for Noz with his head as the icon, and there is one for the black dragon aspect, and the icon has a nose ring.

    And there is only 1 prominent draconic character with a nose ring.


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  18. #5758
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    If Emberthal is chosen, it would really be the worst way to tie up this story in my opinion; whereas I somewhat dislike Ebyssian as a choice because he's fairly flat, it at least comes with the silver lining of subverting Blizzard's typical trope of having the young, plucky upstart upstage their older counterparts. Emberthal is not only wholly unsuitable for the position on a thematic level on account of being a Dracthyr, it also just doesn't strike me as a good way to continue the arc of the representative of a race that nobody wanted to begin with.
    I don't necessarily disagree. But my personal desires don't blind me to what is so flagrantly being set up here. In fact, the reason you dismiss Emberthal is another point for her: Blizzard has been trying to legitimize Dracthyr as dragons since the moment they were announced. What better way to hammer their status as dragons in than to make one of them an Aspect outright?

  19. #5759
    Quote Originally Posted by Dancaris View Post
    That is most probable btw. New model, ring on nose, that chin more Tauren-like, and name Black Aspect. Its 100% new Ebyssian picture.
    With that we could assume that Nozdormu remains Bronze Aspect.
    Nozdormu is more surprising than Ebyssian. Either they didn't want to spoil the dungeon or maybe he does remain saved.

    I hope this means Merithra gets a new model too.

  20. #5760
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    Nozdormu is more surprising than Ebyssian. Either they didn't want to spoil the dungeon or maybe he does remain saved.

    I hope this means Merithra gets a new model too.
    Right! I wanna see a new model for Merithra. And for Ebyssian as well. I liked the nose ring and the chains, but he's gotta have a complete unique design, not just a couple of 3d elements. I'm glad this might mean Nozdormu makes it out and I'm curious to see how he avoids his fate, if he does.

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